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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

1000 replies

lemonstartree · 22/10/2007 09:26

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

OP posts:
ginnedup · 28/04/2008 11:50

Attilla. In all fairness you only see what I post on here. This is probably my fault as when things are going well and he's not drinking I don't feel the need to come on here so much. I tend to post on here more when things are at their worst but in between times things are great between us.
P is essentially a good man with a problem. I have driven myself mad trying to 'cure' him and when I wasn't doing that I was trying to cut contact with him but all it was doing was upsetting me and affecting dc. This way I am cutting the bad side of him out of my life while still spending time with him when he is sober.
I haven't forgotten what he's done in the past (far from it!) but I'm trying to move on from it and I'm not going to put myself in that position with him again.
I was talking to a friend about this at the weekend and she said that children need to see all aspects of life in order to form their own opinions about what they want to be in their future. I'm not sure I totally agree with this but she does have a point. They know that when he's not here he is more than likely in the pub, but they have me and their dad and fantastic grandparents in their lives too so its not as if he is the only male they are looking up to.
Thanks for looking out for me and I do appreciate you mean well.
My Mum always says that nobody is all bad and she taught me to see the good in everybody and that everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe I'm taking that advice to the extreme here but its the only way I can get through this at the moment, by ignoring the bad side of P and concentrating on the good, loving man he can be.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 28/04/2008 13:12

Hi GUP,

"Attila. In all fairness you only see what I post on here.

Yes and I respond accordingly.

"This is probably my fault as when things are going well and he's not drinking I don't feel the need to come on here so much. I tend to post on here more when things are at their worst but in between times things are great between us".

But the underlying problems still remain even though he is "okay" in your mind at times.

"P is essentially a good man with a problem".

But he is not your problem ultimately

"I have driven myself mad trying to 'cure' him"

Yes I know. Big mistake. Huge.

"and when I wasn't doing that I was trying to cut contact with him but all it was doing was upsetting me and affecting dc".

You were upset so your children were as well. They want to see their Mummy to be happy.

"This way I am cutting the bad side of him out of my life while still spending time with him when he is sober".

Hmm. I think at heart you are kidding yourself here. However, I think you are set on this so hopefully it won't blow up in your face. But if it does I won;t say I told you so.

"I haven't forgotten what he's done in the past (far from it!)"

Good because I certainly remember what he did.

"but I'm trying to move on from it and I'm not going to put myself in that position with him again".

But what about him, what's he done since?.
Where's his sense of responsibility for his actions? You're always seemingly responsible for him. You are NOT responsible for him. Only to your own self and to your children.

"I was talking to a friend about this at the weekend and she said that children need to see all aspects of life in order to form their own opinions about what they want to be in their future. I'm not sure I totally agree with this but she does have a point".

Well this is an aspect of their life they don't need. Children patently do not need to see alcoholism in adult figures regardless of who they are at such a tender age. It affects their attitudes markedly particularly when it comes to forming relationships. Children as well learn about relationships first and foremost from their own parents.

"They know that when he's not here he is more than likely in the pub

Well GUP if that is not bloody sad then I don't know what is. That after all is where he spends most of his social time when not working. Your children are very perceptive.

" but they have me and their dad and fantastic grandparents in their lives too so its not as if he is the only male they are looking up to". Good, the more decent male role models they have the better.

"Thanks for looking out for me and I do appreciate you mean well".

Am glad you realise this.

"My Mum always says that nobody is all bad and she taught me to see the good in everybody and that everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe I'm taking that advice to the extreme here but its the only way I can get through this at the moment, by ignoring the bad side of P and concentrating on the good, loving man he can be".

What was it really like growing up in your house?. You don't have to answer that. Your Mum likely gave your Dad plenty of chances. Am not saying that P is all bad but how many more chances are you prepared to give before you've finally had enough of his shenanigans?. He's out of your house thankfully but he's not out of your life. Its like you're dependent on each other - can't be together and can't be apart. You've learnt patterns. You're going round in circles and he's milking this for all he's worth. By choosing to only see the good side you ignore the underlying problems at your peril. The reality of his alcoholism is far too painful still for you to fully contemplate so you go around in circles.

It took your Mum a long time to separate from your alcoholic Dad, you're repeating the pattern because you're now the Mother. And that to me is the saddest thing of all.

Apart from anything else you and your children deserve a man who is not drink dependent.

If nothing else I hope I give another perspective.

Attila x

ginnedup · 28/04/2008 21:24

Attilla - some of what you say is true, but you are looking at this totally from an outsider's pov.
From my dc's viewpoint P is brilliant with them, he takes them to the park, we recently went to Legoland with P and his dd (who they love like a sister) and had a lovely family day out. We are all going camping soon in his caravan and are going on holiday together later in the year. They have lots of fun with him and they love him to bits. He doesn't live here and they are fine with that, although they do see him most days.
On average about once every week or so he is not around and ds1 (age 8) knows he's at the pub with his friends. They will never see him drunk again (I make sure of that). You say they need a happy Mummy to be happy themselves and I am happy with things at the moment.
As for history repeating itself, my childhood was spent living in fear of my dad and his drunken outbursts, the only happy times were when it was me, my Mum and brother on our own. My Dad stole money from us, kept my Mum short of money all so he could drink, he used to bring all his drunk friends home and taunt us, or yell at us if we were to noisy. If my P was like this he'd be long gone, trust me. What happened at Christmas was the end of the line for us living together, but you are right we can't live together but can't be apart either.
I don't feel responsible for him any more, if he drinks he doesn't see us. End of.
I am a lot stronger than my Mum was and am totally independent so no, I don't see history repeating itself.
I'm sorry if you think I'm "burying my head in the sand" but I disagree. I'm fully aware of what I'm up against and I have drawn strict boundaries in our relationship which P will stick to or its over, and for the past few months he has stuck to them.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/04/2008 07:53

Attilla - some of what you say is true, but you are looking at this totally from an outsider's pov.

Indeed I am. And that opinion is just as valid (not that you are in any way suggesting otherwise).

"From my dc's viewpoint P is brilliant with them, he takes them to the park, we recently went to Legoland with P and his dd (who they love like a sister) and had a lovely family day out. We are all going camping soon in his caravan and are going on holiday together later in the year. They have lots of fun with him and they love him to bits".

Well they see that you are happy with him so fit in accordingly. The above is all very well and good but they've also seen him when he's plastered and they have seen other stuff (Christmas). And what about you? It is of course nice for the children to be given treats and stuff but that's all superficial really. Any child is going to love such stuff when given to them. Its what he is like day to day with both them and you that matters and he has fallen down badly here - and will likely continue to do so lest he is serious about addressing why he uses alcohol as a crutch.

"He doesn't live here and they are fine with that, although they do see him most days".

I am certain that they are fine with the fact that he no longer lives with you - they need stability and calm at home apart from anything else. Their house should be their sanctuary. They deserve that and a happy Mum. I am sure also you are happier. It comes across that you are happier.

"On average about once every week or so he is not around and ds1 (age 8) knows he's at the pub with his friends".

That's sad.

"They will never see him drunk again (I make sure of that). You say they need a happy Mummy to be happy themselves and I am happy with things at the moment.

Good. I sincerely hope you continue to remain happy. I ultimately though do not think that he can give you what you want because he just can't.

"As for history repeating itself, my childhood was spent living in fear of my dad and his drunken outbursts, the only happy times were when it was me, my Mum and brother on our own. My Dad stole money from us, kept my Mum short of money all so he could drink, he used to bring all his drunk friends home and taunt us, or yell at us if we were to noisy".

There are no words. ((((GUP)))).

"If my P was like this he'd be long gone, trust me. What happened at Christmas was the end of the line for us living together, but you are right we can't live together but can't be apart either".

This is why I say you're co-dependent on one another. This cycle of co-dependency has to be broken. Its not healthy for either of you ultimately. You need to read about co-dependent relationships and educate yourself.

"I don't feel responsible for him any more, if he drinks he doesn't see us. End of.
I am a lot stronger than my Mum was and am totally independent so no, I don't see history repeating itself".

I think you are stronger than your Mum but there is still weakness. You still have this man who has an alcohol problem/drink dependency in your lives albeit on a part time basis. The dynamic of the relationship has thus altered. Okay so it may not necessarily be history repeating itself but there have been damaging lessons imparted to you and you've learnt them. You need to unlearn them.

"I'm sorry if you think I'm "burying my head in the sand" but I disagree.

I think you're kidding yourself ultimately because you're stuck in a co-dependent relationship. Y'know the "can't live together, can't live apart" scenario.

"I'm fully aware of what I'm up against and I have drawn strict boundaries in our relationship which P will stick to or its over, and for the past few months he has stuck to them".

For now yes. The only one who can ultimately help him though is him. You cannot much as you'd like to. You have now learnt that particular harsh lesson.

With best wishes

Attila x

ginnedup · 29/04/2008 16:55

I will read up about co-dependent relationships, it's not something I know much about, but I will find out.
P is still waiting for his counselling appt to come through from the docs so I am hoping a lot of his issues can be resolved when this starts and maybe it will lead to AA or some other alcohol counselling. It annoys me that he asked for help over 3 months ago now and still nothing. The same with Relate we have been waiting for months to get an appointment. I don't want to give up without knowing we tried everything, but this endless waiting for appointments is a bloody nightmare.
I guess I'm just not ready to throw in the towel just yet - at the moment the good outweighs the bad so I am happy with things the way they are for now.
Thanks for trying to give me another perspective on this - its hard to hear but you only say what everybody else it too polite to say

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/04/2008 21:31

Hi GUP

Re your comments:-

"I will read up about co-dependent relationships, it's not something I know much about, but I will find out".

Good!. Would recommend you read "Women who love too much" by Robin Norwood. The title of course does not refer to you but this guy addresses relationship issues.

"P is still waiting for his counselling appt to come through from the docs so I am hoping a lot of his issues can be resolved when this starts and maybe it will lead to AA or some other alcohol counselling".

BTW do you yourself know why he became alcohol dependent?. What triggered all this, there must be reasons. You of course do not have to answer that. It is for him to go into with a counsellor.

Is he ready and willing now to use a counselling service?. The last thing he frankly needs (and you certainly do not need) is for him to back out when the going gets tough as it inevitably will. It will not be easy for him and will take some considerable time. He will need to put the work in himself. Maybe he will eventually go to AA or into some other alcoholism counselling but you need to bear in mind that he may not decide to seek their support. In the meantime you need support too and if you haven't already spoken with them I would speak with Al-anon. Perhaps counselling both together (in the longer term) and separately in the short term will help you both.

BACP (British Association for Counselling and Pyschotherapy) also have a list of counsellors who operate throughout the UK. It may be something that either one or both of you could look into (they have a website).

"It annoys me that he asked for help over 3 months ago now and still nothing. The same with Relate we have been waiting for months to get an appointment. I don't want to give up without knowing we tried everything, but this endless waiting for appointments is a bloody nightmare".

Unfortunately there is a large demand for such services.

"I guess I'm just not ready to throw in the towel just yet - at the moment the good outweighs the bad so I am happy with things the way they are for now.

This is fair enough but your main priorities are primarily still you and your DC. He is further down that list or should be, you are only responsible for your own self and your children. You only have so much emotional energy you can give him. I just hope he ultimately does not throw it all back at you in a contemptuous manner because then you will be heartbroken.

"Thanks for trying to give me another perspective on this - its hard to hear but you only say what everybody else it too polite to say"

I have had that particular charge levelled at me before y'know and I do not mind in the slightest. I am polite really but think another perspective from someone on the outside looking in (and not just mine) is what you need to read too.

If nothing else, I hope I make you think some more.

With best wishes

Attila x

ginnedup · 30/04/2008 14:08

Why does he drink? I think its a lot to do with his childhood. His Mum is an alcoholic and all his family are 'drinkers' to different degrees. He uses drink to self medicate, ie to forget the past, as a release from stress or to block it out when something bad happens. Tbh I think he's a very screwed up person who can't deal with his emotions. That's for the counsellor to unravel - I'm way out of my depth there!
He is ready to see a counsellor and is gettin frustrated with the length of time it is taking. He can't afford to go private though so we just have to sit it out.
I totally agree with you that he is not my priority, the dc are and always will be.
Oh and I didn't mean you aren't polite - just different in your approach

ginnedup · 30/04/2008 14:08

Why does he drink? I think its a lot to do with his childhood. His Mum is an alcoholic and all his family are 'drinkers' to different degrees. He uses drink to self medicate, ie to forget the past, as a release from stress or to block it out when something bad happens. Tbh I think he's a very screwed up person who can't deal with his emotions. That's for the counsellor to unravel - I'm way out of my depth there!
He is ready to see a counsellor and is gettin frustrated with the length of time it is taking. He can't afford to go private though so we just have to sit it out.
I totally agree with you that he is not my priority, the dc are and always will be.
Oh and I didn't mean you aren't polite - just different in your approach

ginnedup · 30/04/2008 14:08

Now why did that happen?

secretsquirrel1 · 01/05/2008 11:21

Hi there, I'm back again!!

I've been reading the last few posts and would only add that counselling is all well and good in 'normal situations, but no-one understands alcoholism better than AA and Al Anon....The alcoholic would certainly be wasting their time with 'basic' counselling.

My H did just that - managed to persuade and manipulate everyone into thinking that he really did have PTS....say no more, but it was nearly 2 years later that Alcoholism reared its ugly head.

GU-please try Al Anon. You will learn all about the tools needed to cope with active alcoholism, change the way you react to his behaviour, and most importantly you will 'discover' yourself.

ginnedup · 07/05/2008 10:52

I'm going to Al Anon on Monday night.
I'm a bit scared but I think I need to give it a go.
I'm not telling DP where I'm going, I'll tell him I'm seeing a counsellor which is sort of true.
Wish me luck!

secretsquirrel1 · 07/05/2008 13:03

GU -Oh well done you! Please CAT me for more info about it - there is nothing to be scared of, believe me!

The best thing of all is that for once you will feel incredibly safe; no matter what you have been through, there will be others who have been through exactly the same as you and worse.

Go with an open mind, just listen and give yourself time to take it all on board. Don't be scared. And most importantly, Al Anon is for You. The focus will be firmly on you, not the alcoholic in your life.

Like I said, please CAT me.

If you don't, or can't, please ask me anything via here, or ring the main Office for more info on 0207 4030888, and ask to speak to the group rep for your area meeting.

ATB, SSx

AttilaTheMeerkat · 07/05/2008 14:02

Hi GUP

Re your posting:-

"I'm going to Al Anon on Monday night.
I'm a bit scared but I think I need to give it a go"

I am SOOOOOOO pleased to see you write that. Big Gold Star to you. As for your scared comment I would take the time honoured US saying and say to you feel the fear and do it anyway. You will be okay.

"I'm not telling DP where I'm going, I'll tell him I'm seeing a counsellor which is sort of true".

Good.

Wish me luck!

Good luck vibes are winging their way to you.

ginnedup · 07/05/2008 17:40

Hi SS.
I've CATed you. Thanks.
Attilla
Thank you. I took on board a lot of what you said to me last week and I've decided to actually do something about it.
DP's Mum is very ill in hospital and I don't think she'll last much longer. He'll deal with it in his usual way I suppose and I know I won't be able to support him through it, without risking a repeat of what happened at Christmas, which I'm not going to do.
I feel bad for constantly going on at my Mum about it (although she is lovely and doesn't mind) and you must all be getting bored with me going on and on but not actually doing anything so I'm determined to sort this once and for all now.

secretsquirrel1 · 14/05/2008 11:09

Where is everyone?

GU - how did you get on on Mon? How is your DP's mother?

We (DD & I) had a wonderful weekend away at my s/mothers & my mums. Perfect weather, DD spent most of the time in the sea and I felt sooo much better for just sitting in the sunshine! .

How is everyone else?

ginnedup · 14/05/2008 18:39

Hi SS.
I couldn't go on Monday. DP was away working and I couldn't get a babysitter. I'll definitely go next week though (my Mum is on standby)
Thanks for the emails SS - they were really helpful. DP is all for it, AND he's got his first counselling appointment through for next Tuesday.
Its all happening now!!
SS your weekend sounds fab. I need to get some more sun on me, I'm too pale and interesting . I do love this weather, it really puts me in a good mood. Nothing seems so bad when there's sun!!!

lemonstartree · 17/05/2008 13:38

bump......

OP posts:
lemonstartree · 17/05/2008 13:52

Hi all, hope everyone is ok. princess how's things with you ? and that baby ?

SS is your h still at home at the moment ?

big ugs to everyone.
My dh is at home. still clean , says he does not miss the weed. He is still much nicer and calmer than before. I still do not trust him, I can't. I hope that one day I will, but now I cant leave him with the kids ( or not with all 3)and Im waiting for this calm to end.

feel a bit dwn today.

on the whole I get n with it, I reckon its better for the kids now, to have him at home, calm, sober and quite nice. I quite like him too - and am pleased to have the help. But I cant help feeling that his behaviour has wrecked forever the future I thought I would have, His addiction means I can never fully trust him again, never love him again as I hoped to be able to love my partner.

I just feel incredably sad.

OP posts:
secretsquirrel1 · 19/05/2008 15:41

Aw (((((LST))))) I felt so sad when I read your post - do you know, I was starting to feel like that when H first started to go to AA but of course that lasted all of 3 weeks so then I felt that I was justified in feeling the way I did.

Speaking of H he is still @ home and it's a f...... nightmare! He is drinking all the time and is heading back down the pit at a rate of knots.

But at weekends DD & I invariably go down to Dorset & Devon to stay with my s/mother and mum which helps make it bearable....after all, what child is going to object to going to the seaside?? And I have organised for H to go to his parents maybe 1 or 2 weekends a month (with him).

I'm feeling very well despite all the nonsense at home. H has just about run out of money and was talking about selling the monstrous TV he bought just before Xmas (shame!).

Did the Moonwalk (2nd year running) so am a bit sore but other than than, another day another dollar (I'm at work!).

GU - Hope you are able to go to Al Anon tonight...

flubdub · 19/05/2008 16:10

Can I join this thread?
Heres my thread.

ginnedup · 19/05/2008 16:17

Course you can Flubdub - haven't had chance to read your thread through but I know you will get lot of valuable support on here, I know I have.
Its my Alanon tonight and to be honest I'm really nervous. I know I'll clam up and not be able to speak, but hopefully I'll get something from it and next weeks will be easier.
I have dsd staying this week and its so tempting not to go, but I know if I back out now I'll never do it.
Think of me tonight everyone and I'll report back as soon as I can.
GU

lemonstartree · 19/05/2008 16:37

welcome flubdub, I have posted on your other thread... rather bleakly I'm sorry.....

thing is, all those people who can smoke weed occassioally for a social relax have NO idea what living with an addict is like, and that for that addict they can no more smoke one joint and stop than they coud fly to the f**ing moon.

Im rather jaded at the moment; despite my story haveing a moderately happpy 'ending' the reality is that Im living with a man whose behavious is stuck at the age of 19 a lot of the time, and whose behaviour whilst and active addict may have permenantly destroyed my family.

welcome anyway !

OP posts:
princesshobnob · 19/05/2008 21:07

Hi Flubdub, and welcome.
I've just read your other thread, sounds like you've been through a horrible last year, and it must be hard having a new baby plus a toddler on top of everything else.

Personally I think that in a relationship, if something 1 person does bothers the other person, surely it's reasonable to discuss it, and at least try and come to some sort of compromise. If it's no big deal, why does he have to do it every single day, knowing it's upsetting you? Especially the fact that he will do it in front of your child.

SS - Sorry you're still having to live with your H, I'm glad you're able to at least escape the situation at the weekend. Are you any nearer to being able to separate?

Gup - hope Alanon went went, and you find it useful

LST you don't sound very happy, I'm sorry - of course this will affect your feelings for your h, especially if you feel he isn't the supportive, adult, equal partner you deserve even though he's clean.

As for me.. things haven't really changed. He still takes drugs (though claims that sometimes when he locks himself into his room, it's not about drugs, it's because he's in a bad mood and doesn't want to take it out on me. {hmm] - because he's incapable of saying "I'm in a bad mood, don't feel like talking, I'm off to bed", and just shutting, rather than bolting the door I presume???? Surely it would be in his interests to show he's not taken anything?
He hasn't been to any meetings, he's lied about money, I feel utterly disrespected in many ways... sometimes I feel sad, hopeless, sometimes angry, sometimes just empty.

I'm no longer picking up his clothes to wash off the floor, I haven't cooked for him - that's made me feel slightly empowered. He's been more helpful re childcare recently, but still won't leave.

Baby is ok as far as I know, I have my second scan tomorrow, hope that's OK. I've told him that if he's not sorted his drug problem, he's not welcome at the birth. He wants to be there, but if he can't even try to sort this out for his family, I just don't think he deserves to be there, and I don't want him. How could I even rely on him being sober at the critical moment? DD was pretty quick, if this is too, I might be in labour with him barricaded into his room, totally useless.

flubdub · 19/05/2008 21:49

Hi, thanks everyone.
Obviously cant read the whole thread but will try and read last few pages tomorrow so i can understand whats going on.

Congratulations on your pregnancy princesshobnob.

alittleone2 · 19/05/2008 22:05

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