SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

I'm not sure what I believe about how much choice an addict has... Kokeshi, you say that an addict is not responsible for his choices, or denial of the problem. But then if that is absolutely true, how is it ever possible for an addict to seek help?

I think that once my partner is faced with drugs, offered drugs, or the opportunity to obtain them, then he is no longer able to act rationally, and I guess that he is not really choosing drugs over his family, even if that's how it feels.

But I do think that when he says he knows it's a problem, yet maintains friendships with people who put temptation in his path (I know it's not their fault he takes the drugs, but anyone who's ever tried to eat healthily and give up the cakes for a bit knows that it's easier if you don't have friends who urge you to eat that slab of choocie cake just this once), keeps numbers of suppliers, etc - then that is selfish, and is responsible for his choices, and is putting his needs/wants before ours.

My partner will tell me to hide the bank book to limit his access to money - so he does acknowledge it's a problem. He's cried about it to me, it's affected his work.... but he won't seek help. It feels selfish to me but maybe he's not rational because of his addiction. But then how will he ever change?

The counsellor I've seen says drug taking is chaos. That's very hard to live with, whatever the whys and wherefores of how much an addict is responsible for their actions.

To paraphrase Allo Allo I will write this only once.

My main concern is for the women on this thread who are in the throes of dealing with men with various addiction problems. These women write here. If their men cannot or will not for whatever reason seek help for their addictions (many of these men will likely never speak to AA or al-anon though they should) then what are these ladies supposed to do?. What is/are their roles?. Being supportive of the alcoholic is one thing but what if they are not seeking or even wanting help to overcome addiction (as my relation did, he put alcohol first so that's a factor but I know that does not apply to everyone).

As I wrote earlier I take my hat off to you Kokeshi for addressing your problems. I only wish that these men would do the same as you have done. I do not want an argument (hell no!) and I respect your right to voice your opinion. I will look further into the pyschology behind alcoholism; you have given me food for thought.

Wishing you a Happy Christmas.

Attila

Whatever Attila's experience is, it is up to her how much personal info she divulges. I also find it unusual, particularly on MN where everyone seems very open and her posts are often repeated word for word more than once in a thread but I value her advice, harsh as it is sometimes.
Kokeshi, you are coming to this thread from a different angle, as a recovering alcoholic and I admire you for that, in fact you give me hope that there is a future and that these horrible addictions can be beaten.
People with addictions (not those in recovery) are selfish in that the drug / drink / whatever will come first over everything else. Whether or not they are selfish in other ways is another matter, but the addiction is so strong it can alter someone's personality to such a degree that even the most generous, unselfish person can become the complete opposite when drunk.
My dp is the most generous, loving, kind hearted man I've ever met when sober, when he's drunk he's a monster who I don't even recognise as the man I love. When he's drinking he couldn't care less about me, the kids or his family and that is the thing I find the most heartbreaking in all of this.

By the way Conumdrum - welcome!! We have the same problem. My dp doesn't drink excessively all the time, but like yours when he does, he can't stop. He can go out and have 2 or 3 pints and stop one day, but the next something goes inside his head (his description) and he will drink and drink solidly for days. He blames stress of work, me, his ex wife, his daughter, the man up the road, anyone but its never his fault.
I've made ultimatums time and time again, but he comes back head in hands saying sorry and I always have him back.
I think he is an alcoholic deep down, but just not always a 'practising' alcoholic!
Just want you to know you are not alone and we are all here to support you.

Hi everyone - It has been very very busy this last 2 days! I have lots to tell but it will have to wait until I have time and space to write when I'm at work.

Just spent my writing time catching up with all the new posts....welcome to all the newcomers - will speak soon!!

I'm just about to go to Al Anon meeting, so will be back tomorrow, promise!

SS1 x

G*D I am confused.....

bear with me......

i kicked him out in august because of his verbal aggression to me and physical aggression to the kids. I knew he was using, but I had no idea how much cannabis etc he was getting through.

at the time I was so relieved to have DONE IT, made the decision. I did everything I needed to, I consulted a solicitor, reported his assault on ds2 to the police, dealt with child protection, organised child care for ds3, and MANAGED.

he went on a mad drugs binge , attempted suicide (sort of) and finally realised I meant it and seems to have been sorting his life out ever since. he is living with his folks

From having been a cannabis user for almost 30 years he is clean He goes to NA 3-4x a week and to another one to one drugs counsellor once a week. he is working.

from initially allowing him supervised access only to the children he is now able to take one or two out on his own. he has been round here at the weekends a few times for a few hours and he does seem very different.

He is much calmer, he is able to hold a conversation, he is recognising the heavy use of drugs is completely inappropriate around children, he actually seems like quite a nice person.

but do people ever really change. Can I honestly ever really forgive him and move on? what about the kids? could I ever allow him to live here agin with access to then again? was he violent because he was a drug addict and if he is clean how likely is he to be violent again ? why do i even consider this? why do I worry that , because I have friends staying this weekend, he will not be able to come over as he has been doing ?

HELP

Lsct - what a dilemma. It's great that he's doing so well. I believe people can change and it certianly sounds like he's committed to change at the moment, attending so many support groups. But of course there are no guarantees - he might have relapses, or stop being clean altogether....

I guess my only suggestion is not to rush into getting back together if that's what you're thinking of. Give yourself plenty of time to make the best decision possible.

From your previous posts I think that it's not just his addiction and his behaviour that is a problem - it's the fact that those things have damaged you relationship and your feelings for him. I think you probably need to work on these things too - just because he's clean at the moment - does that mean you are in love with him again? That you trust, respect him and feel able to rely on him?

I don't think there are any easy answers. Did you go to any counselling together? That might help?

This must be very hard for you. I know you just want the best for your dcs, and it must be great to see your ex being normal. Good luck

PHN thank you. you are very right

I think part of the problem is that I have got so used to accommodating other peoples needs - his, my mothers etc that my FEELINGS are repressed, I FEEL that I don't want him back ( and then I think I need to justify that ) but my 'caring part' thinks that I should.

but I should go with what I FEEL.

hope everyone else is Ok

SS hope it went well on Monday

PHN how is life this week ?
ZK hope the run up to Xmas is ok - for you and the dc. Do you have any family support ?
GUP hope you can have a good Xmas

hi to Conumdrum, and WDWGFH and ABI

suzyah, and IDCWRT - hope you are doing ok

for Attila and Kokeshi.......I think you are both much further 'on' in this rollercoaster than the rest of us are.

For me I value both of your inputs very much and I hope you will both continue to post.... the 'opposing' views are interesting and helpful

lsct x

Well my life is as messed up as ever, though i must take responsibility for the fact that i have done little to make change happen so far. I was going to go to the CAB today to make an appointment but didn't get time - I certainly would have done if I'd been able to fit the journey in, I got as far as getting directions, and would have rung if i'd had the number, so maybe, just maybe, I'm moving closer to freedom!

He took some money to go out and get a dinner jacket tonight. Still shopping for it I presume . Maybe he found some shops that stay open really really really late

He knew I didn't believe his story even before he left, but he was being all jolly, wanting to kiss / hug me.

I don't believe a word he says. He could say the grass is green, the earth is round. I wouldn't believe him now.

It's so tiring. And it makes me boil with rage sometimes, though actually more often about the resulting lying about, failure to be a dad, and absolute utter laziness around the house.

I don't think he has any keys. I've turned the phones off, but what if he comes banging at the door? My life certainly is chaos when I feel I can't even make a choice about going to bed for a peaceful night's sleep.

I've just started writing a diary of what happens. This thread helped me remember the last few weeks. I hope it helps with my resolve to make change happen.

My mantra will be FREEDOM, FREEDOM Freedom. From suspicion, from doubt, from being lied to, from financial instability, from a partner who is incapable of partnering anybody.

Think he's back. Does actually have his keys. Makes a change.

I found this excerpt from a book called "The Stranger that you love. Addict in the family: Stories of hope loss and recovery". I think it's something that most of us can relate to.

Hi everyone,

I?ve had an excellent week so far and thought I?d share it with you.

The funds to buy him out have finally reached me (only took 21 weeks?)
My mortgage application on my own is going through!
And maybe more importantly, I?ve had a very honest conversation with SIL. She is fully supporting the separation and hoping that it would help him reach his rock bottom.

Considering we?re a week away from Christmas and I?m ready to send out my official offer I?m not too sure what to do. I?m nearly considering putting off until January. Christmas is going to be awful either way. With all the bank holidays and weekends he will not be able to seek out any legal advice, will just carry on saying that he doesn?t want to leave and make life utterly awful for 2 weeks.

What do you think?

Hello everyone!

So much for posting yesterday....it was far too busy at work, and now I have 20 mins before picking DD up from her Christmas Party.

My trip to the Solicitors was very helpful indeed. But first and foremost, I got the best out of it because I was mentally and physically prepared - and that is because I have a year of Al Anon under my belt.

I was very calm and collected - no blubbing, no rambling and getting myself all tied up in knots! I had a whole list of things to ask and they were all duly covered. But the thing that impressed me most of all was that the Solicitor recognised that my DH is very SICK - he was very aware that I was hoping that this step towards separating may be the thing that helps him reach his rock bottom, and thus helping to save our marriage from going all the way to irretrievable breakdown and divorce.

I have to now take steps to ensure that he is no longer the sole carer no matter what shifts I am on. I spoke to my line manager who has agreed for me to come off night duty from beg. Jan. for the foreseeable future. After all, I can't expect him to cover my shifts when the need arises - quite right too.

I am getting the house valued the w/end before Christmas (he & DD will be at his parents as I'm on Nights)and will be making appt's to see how much I would need if I had to buy him out.

I also need to sort out an address for correspondence for myself.

I haven't cancelled Christmas, because the plans have been long standing and I don't want to upset anyone about last minute changes, though there is no good time to instigate the massive changes that will be happening! I'm going along with the 'going to his parents for Eve & Day' then DD & I are off to my mothers until the following Sat. where we have to make plans for when he will get the letter from the Solicitor - somehow I don't think it will be easy. I'm sure my mother will come up and stay for that period of time.

I feel very calm and at peace - all the irritations of living with an actively drinking alcoholic have gone away to another level. I really do feel like I am finally able to get on with my life - and should DH find sobriety then that will be the icing on the cake. However, Al Anon has taught me to 'never expect' so if it happens it happens and if it doesn't then I know I really have tried everything.

Have to go now, am hoping to post later on this afternnon!

SS, you sound fantastic - despite the circumstances - and are a great example for all of us. I find the principles in the 12 step programme very simple, but not so easy to put in practice! It takes hard work and commitment...a work in progress. So well done for achieving all that you have done.

There's such a sense of peace when we can finally accept the situation, having realised we are totally powerless over the addict's behaviour.

I look forward to hearing more about your own experiences.

Oops, missed your post wdwgfh, I'm glad you're putting things in place for yourself too.

I think wrt the putting off the separation letter thing, you know yourself what is likely to happen so go with your instinct. I hope it all works out for you.

Kokeshi - thankyou for your messages of support. You are certainly right about the 12 step programme; I find that I'm just on step 2 and that is after a year of Al Anon !! I'm going to read that thread you kindly posted after posting this...

As I have already posted before, it is so hard to go to Al Anon and to not expect all the answers on a plate so you can then go home and fix things. But you can learn so much just by listening to others at the meetings - especially those who have been around for a long time. And I am extremely lucky in having a sponsor who has been in the fellowship for 30 yrs. Her husband found AA before she found Al Anon, and they are still together and working it through.

WDWGFH - I don't think the timing really matters, whether it is before or after Christmas in your case...if things are really bad already, can they get any worse? Are you going away or are you at home? Don't be slipping into that 'well I'll put it off because it isn't fair on him not being able to get any legal help due to the hols'.

LSCT - I think that 4 months is v. early days to be thinking that all is well. I personally would give it a lot longer. You need to allow him time to manage/cope - esp. if things start to go wrong in his life. You need to see if he can cope without the drugs.

Conundrum & PHN - He is inside your head; you need help to distance yourself from the madness. Please, please try Al Anon, becasue that will be the key to Freedom. Trust me! Even after a couple of meetings (and it is suggested that you do go to 6 meetings before you make up your mind) you will have access to an open AA meeting. Only then will you really understand what it is like to be in the grips of this appalling addiction. And you will also understand where Kokeshi is coming from.

Someone from AA was a guest speaker at our Al Anon a couple of months ago, and that was a revelation. It certainly helped me to be more understanding and to not be so full of resentment, be bitter and twisted. It also helped me to no longer react to whatever nastiness was thrown at me. Because it is as pointless to react as it is looking for bottles/cans/spying on where your partner really is.

Once you have the tools from Al Anon, you will find it easier to live with the alcoholic and to manage you life more effectively. And to be clear headed enough to decide on boundaries. My boundary was if he did anything in front of DD - so when he crossed that boundary a couple of weeks ago I knew that it was time to act. You cannot even think of planning anything when your mind is in a whirl. You cannot reason with someone who is actively drinking - it is like talking to a Chinaman!!

Zookeeper - are you ok?

Hi. This thread moves so fast sometimes its hard to keep up! Glad to see so many positive threads on here.
I'm very apprehensive about Christmas, there will be times when he will drink, but I'm just hoping that we can get through it without any nasty binges or arguments. It's really like walking on eggshells sometimes.
I can't wait till Christmas is over. For partners of alcoholics this is the worst time of year, its almost compulsory to drink, wherever you go and I've always got my eye on him, counting how much he's drinking, checking his behaviour as it only takes one drink to send him from nice to nasty .. and of course he'll have the perfect excuse "Its Christmas, everyone drinks at Christmas!"

GUP - Try to change your reaction to his drinking. Yes, you may think you feel reassured when you can see what he is drinking, but that will be only half the story...what about all the drinks that you won't see?? Because there will be hidden drinks all over the place.

You don't feel any better for knowing, because you are so on edge whether he is or isn't actively drinking. Please don't be wasting your valuable energy worrying about what he may/may not do. You won't know until it happens so why make yourself miserable by thinking the worst case scenario?

Yes, it takes practice, because it's horrible when they get into such a bad state when everyone else can stop and have a normal 'fun time'. You start to over compensate and cover up their behaviour. And that is also pointless - you wouldn't believe how many friends have said to me that they could see something was very wrong with his drinking habits, but they didn't like to say anything to me at the time.....you may think you are doing a sterling job in covering up the worst excesses but you are simply enabling the alcoholic by doing so.

Please read that article that Kokeshi posted "The Stranger That You Love..." It was very insightful indeed into the addicted mind. Thankyou for that, Kokeshi.

GUP - You need help as well, you really do, because you will end up being dragged down to the bottom of the pit with him. You must get help for yourself & for your DC, please try Al Anon. Yes of course he is the loveliest person there is when he hasn't been drinking (aren't they all?), but you will start to see less and less of that lovely person as he is eroded by alcohol.

My DH is now practically 90% gone, and has started resorting to more extreme behaviours .

I was talking to my DP today about this thread, and the sterling job you are doing SS to demonstrate that there is an alternative to being dragged right down with the addict/alcoholic.

I'm working right now with many newly recovered alcoholics, many whose tragic stories you wouldn't believe, but they have managed to get themselves into recovery. It's very humbling. Although I saw myself going quite far down the spiral (and my husband going right to the end, as it were), there are people whom against all odds and predictions have somehow managed to get sober.

It's fantastic to have come out the other side of it, and realise the pain and devastation caused by addiction. I have made many amends, and I still have a fair few to make. I am not a nasty selfish person by nature but some of me behaviour was insane. I see the same thing over and over again in AA meetings, the misery caused by drinking (for everyone) and the joy of being sober and living a happy contented life.

I feel now I have a much deeper appreciation of how wonderful it is just to feel comfortable in my own skin because I never felt like that before. I think because I've been pretty much at the bottom, I can appreciate feeling good on a daily basis.

There's a message of hope in both of the fellowships of AA and Al-Anon and I hope you all find some peace, however that may happen.

Hi just a quick update, I was conumdrum but have changed back to "me" ... no point in hiding really.

As usual on MN, the thread took a bit of a wobbly turn, so I decided to lie low until it calmed down.

Anyway, I have made it crystal clear to DP that if he binges again that's it. He HAS admitted its a prob and doesn't know what to do about it. Which I guess is good news coz he's faced up to it. My Aunt died of Cihrosis (sorry spelling), watching what it did to her had fundamentally changed me as a person and I will never ever get over the fact that her life was waisted. I will do everything I can to not let it happen to him and if it does I will not be there to watch him go down.

Yes GUP, Christmas is the worse time, no one really thinks about the real meaning of if anymore, it's just an excuse for excess. I know that DPs Christmases were always crap because of booze. It's obviously rubbed off on him.

Thinking of you all x

Very weird weekend, I will cut the drunken rants out and go straight to my two chats with MIL. Quite clearly when I talked to SIL in confidence, it wasn?t or she has a different meaning for the word than I have? Anyway call from MIL on Saturday morning, mainly about Christmas arrangements, wanted to know what my ?plans? were since I?m ?getting rid off her son?, she wonders if she?ll ever see DGS again, I explain that the only reason she hasn?t is because she doesn?t want her drunken son in her house and that I assure her that she will see her DGS more often when things have settled.

Then I come home, XP ranting, why did you say this and that to my mother? I didn?t, I said this or that to SIL. Thanks for keeping things for herself for a while?.

Calls MIL again to clarify that I?m not ?campaigning? against her son but asking for her support, try to make her understand that believing his lies will get her and anyone nowhere, that we need to be strong as he will try to divide and conquer. The sad thing is that it has always worked. He said that you said that she said is an accomplished game in his family.

I found out that she only attended 2 Al-Anon meetings and hasn?t read any books on the subject, so that?s going to be her Christmas present from me.

He must have worried for a little bit because I re listened to the ?I will moderate my drinking in the New Year? speech because I don?t want to lose you. Told him that if he didn?t seek help for himself it will not work. The man is nowhere near rock bottom.

I?m sending the paperwork this week to my solicitor, no need to wait until January. I?m getting too stressed. Also, I nearly lost my bag yesterday, amazingly a kind soul handed it over to the police. I wasn?t worried about the money or cards, the only thing that was going through my head was that I had lost my diary and my phone, all written and audio accounts of the last months. I?m so happy I got everything back.

YUCKI, I?ve heard the ?I know I have a problem but don?t know what to do? for 2 years now. I?m not waiting any longer. Hopefully your DP will see the light.

I did read Kokeshi's link and it definitely rang true, especially the part about them finding places to go that are near pubs and involving drink in every aspect of their lives.
SS - I do want to go to Al Anon, but I'm very shy and the thought of talking about this to a room full of strangers is very scary (although I'm doing it on here, this doesn't seem so bad!). I think its something I will really have to pluck up courage to do. I am getting better about not watching what he's drinking these days, like you say there's nothing I can do about it anyway, I'll just keep my distance if the worst happens.
Yuck - we are at the same point I think. I have also told DP that the next time he binges he is out, and he has resisted it a few times since then so maybe it sunk in this time.
Hope we can all have a good Christmas despite all this.

By the way, I hope Attilla hasn't run off. She hasn't been on here for ages!

Hi GUP

Nice of you to think of me!. Not into running off.

I hope you do go along to an Al-anon meeting; I think it could very well help you besides which they're not going to bite!!.

Some people have asked why I haven't written more about me. Weeeellllll...its because I'm not really writing about me, am more concerned about you. Generally I'm looking at your relationship and advising on it from the outside in, my counsel can be taken or left accordingly. I certainly don't have all the answers and am not God.

One of my late relations on my Dad's side was very much a bon viveur, unfortunately (and that's an understatement) he was also someone with both gambling and alcohol problems. He was a complicated person with an addictive personality who never unfortunately wanted to be helped.

I am a daughter of a father who binge drank particularly during my adolesence. I still find some aspects of that painful so am unwilling to write more. In more recent times I am just thankful that my Dad does not drink as much as he used to, seen quite enough mess along with my Mum's wrath towards him post his drinking.

There's an interesting article in the Christmas section of the Telegraph this week about a wife's reaction towards her alcoholic husband. Its well worth reading this column and the advice given by the lady to whom the letter was sent.

Glad you're still here Attila!
My NY resolution will be to see Al Anon or maybe get some 1-1 counselling. I do have issues regarding my Dad, who was a chronic alcoholic and towards the end of his life became dependent on drugs too. Aside from the stuff regarding DP I think it would do me good in other areas of my life too, ie self esteem, confidence etc.
So that's my plan - to work on myself and let him sort his own life out
Happy Christmas!

Hello everybody, it?s interesting to see how many of us are children of alcoholics, however it makes sense www.adultchildren.org/lit/Problem.s:

Many of us found that we had several characteristics in common as a result of being brought up in an alcoholic or other dysfunctional households.

We had come to feel isolated, and uneasy with other people, especially authority figures. To protect ourselves, we became people pleasers, even though we lost our own identities in the process. All the same we would mistake any personal criticism as a threat.

We either became alcoholics ourselves, married them, or both. Failing that, we found other compulsive personalities, such as a workaholic, to fulfill our sick need for abandonment.

We lived live from the standpoint of victims. Having an over developed sense of responsibility, we preferred to be concerned with others rather than ourselves. We got guilt feelings when we trusted ourselves, giving in to others. We became reactors rather than actors, letting others take the initiative.

We were dependent personalities, terrified of abandonment, willing to do almost anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to be abandoned emotionally. We keep choosing insecure relationships because they matched our childhood relationship with alcoholic or dysfunctional parents.

These symptoms of the family disease of alcoholism or other dysfunction made us 'co-victims', those who take on the characteristics of the disease without necessarily ever taking a drink. We learned to keep our feelings down as children and keep them buried as adults. As a result of this conditioning, we often confused love with pity, tending to love those we could rescue.

Even more self-defeating, we became addicted to excitement in all our affairs, preferring constant upset to workable solutions.

This is a description, not an indictment.
Adult Children of Alcoholics World Service Organization, Inc.

I?m hoping for a bit more traffic this week, I won?t really be able to post during Christmas break. Maybe I?ll go to the Internet café, which I used to do on ML.