SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

Hi, new to this thread, have just been pointed towards this thread by another MNetter.

Not feeling good today...

When DD1 was 5 months old he got caught drink driving (and even tried to escape so got done for that to), it was about the third time he'd done it but first time he got caught. Lost licence for 9 months, was v lucky to keep his job and that was only because he had a child to support.

I was so happy before that, but it really broke my heart. He was genuinely devastated and didn't drink for ages.

Then when dd2 was TWO WEEKS old he has a massive binge drinking session on his own one night after I'd gone to bed (only to be woken by him stumbling around in the middle of the night).

On Sat it was his work Christmas Party ... I got woken up by a phone call at 5:30am, he was so drunk that he couldn't get a cab to take him and said he was freezing to death so I had to go and get him. Stupidly I got the kids out of bed and just as I'd got theire shoes and coats on he called to say he'd got one...It completely ruined our plans for Sun (we we're supposed to be going to see Father Christmas at a carol concert in my Granny's barn, something that I have done since childhood and means alot to me and my family) as I have a cold and the lack of sleep meantI was too ill and tired to drive.

I love him dearly and so want things to be different, he won't admit there's a prob, I don't hink he'll ever change. I've had enough and am thinking about leaving him (which is the last thing I ever wanted for my children, my parents divorced when I was bout 3 and I know how crap it is). At the moment, as much as I love my two gorgeous DDs, I wish I'd never had them as it would be so much easier to walk away and I hate the fact that they're family is breaking down.

Hi Conumdrum
welcom eto th thread! You will find lots of support here!
Does your dh drink in between these binges ? does he use other substances ?
does he not admit that any of his behaviour is a problem ? tbh its quite hard to ignore a drun driving charge ???
must be very difficult for you atm esp with Christmas......do you have any family support ? have you tried to tell him how you feel ?? and what the consequences may be if he does not recognise what he is doing ?

HI - Thanks, so good to have some support on this, it's all such a mess at the moment.

Yes he does drink in between, not excessively (about 4 cans of beer, 2 or 3 times a week) but always on his own. He doesn't binge v often at all but when it happens it's really bad. So I wouldn't say he's an "addict" as he can go without, it's just that sometimes when he starts he can't stop. No, he doesn't use anything else, he smoked canabis fairly heavily in the past, but hasn't for years.

He was extremely appologetic etc about the drink driving and hasn't done it since. But won't admit that he has a prob with binging.

Don't know what's going to happen with Christmas, luckily I do have family support, I have told them, although they don't live nearby. We are going to my mum's for Christmas anyway but don't think I'm tough enough to make him stay behind. Not fair on DDs too.

He was physically abused by his dad and had a v rocky childhood and is also under alot of pressure at work. But I think that's just making excuses...

Hi Conundrum,
Welcome here, we?re all at various stages of living with/leaving/having left addicts. I don?t have many words of wisdom today apart that try to read through this thread if you have the time.

It will help see through the deceit, words are cheap with alcoholics. It?s not always the amount consumed but the pattern in drinking which is worse.

How old are your DDs?

Very intereting article

[http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,2222925,00.html]

...Doctors and addiction counsellors talk about a 'switch'. Most non-alcoholics retain one: they can stop. With hangovers, the last instinct is to have a drink. Alcoholics have simply lost the switch, had it broken: with hangovers, the first instinct is to drink. (With some reforming alcoholics, the switch can, as it were, grow back: they can learn to drink sometimes socially, and control it. Most, sadly, can't.)...

observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,2222925,00.html

Conumdrum

If you have not doen so already I would suggest you talk with Al-anon as they can help families of problem drinkers. I will put up their details for you. You need real life support as well.

He does not have to drink everyday to be an alcoholic - the "usual" image of such a person, this being an old man on a park bench is not accurate at all. Do you think he is alcoholic?.

Its not just you who is being affected either. Your daughters growing up with an alcohol dependent father will do them no favours at all particularly in the longer term. They are learning from you both - we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. They could very well go onto choose alcoholic partners themselves or find themselves in relationships where they are super responsible for the other person. You really do NOT want to leave them that sort of legacy.

Alcoholics are truly the most selfish people in the whole world - its all about them. You write many examples of his selfish behaviour.

His primary relationship first and foremost is with drink - absolutely everything else comes a dim and distant second.

You cannot reason with such people or change them but you can change your reactions to them. Another thing you can do is to stop enabling him. Certainly do not do any more taxi rides in the dark with your children to collect him. What a selfish man he is.

Al-Anon Family Groups UK & Eire
61 Great Dover Street
London
SE1 4YF
Tel: 020 7403 0888 (Helpline 10am - 10pm, 365 days a year)

Thanks for all you kind messages of support.

WFDWGFH, Thanks, I've read 4 pages of this thread and the guardian article ... now my head is spinning. DDs are 3.5 and 16 months, v difficult to leave as financially dependant.

Hi Attila He's not an "alcoholic", he doesn't drink every day. But when he's binge drinking he looses all control. I also think that our relationship has fallen into some sort of pattern of abuse...

He is blaming me for over reacting, thinks its PMT etc. He admits that he has done wrong and that the weekend was ruined, but thinks I should have carried on with our plans without him and not get so upset. He thinks it's not a prob to get so drunk and says he won't stop drinking. He doesn't really remember what happened on Sat night/Sun morning. To top it all, he's now wondering when I'm going to stop sleeping on the sofa! What an arse.

Not sure if I should even be on here as he's not addicted even though he has a prob.

Hi. I would like to join this thread. I'll probably lurk a bit for now until I feel up to opening up more but I used to be "allwornout"...

Conumdrum, everything you say sounds exactly like most of our experiences. I would disagree with your assessment that he is not an alcoholic. It is not about drinking everyday, it?s more about not being able to stop once started.

Keep posting here, and do try to contact Al-Anon very soon. You are not alone in your situation, don?t worry, you?ve started reaching out by posting here. You need to look after yourself and your DDs.

Welcome idontcarewhoreadsthis, I'm not really posting myself either! I'm keeping an eye on the thread...

This week so far has been good and bad, and I'm a tinsy bit tired by the rollercoaster

"Alcoholics are truly the most selfish people in the whole world - its all about them"

Atilla, I really wish you would give it a rest with this, it's very tiresome.

Unless you are an alcoholic, have experience with being in a relationship with one, or in fact have actually attended regular Al-Anon meetings, you are in no position to make such a sweeping generalisation. In fact if you did really understand Al-Anon, you would know that it is not about demonising the alcoholic at all, which you seem to believe. You are doing the fellowship a great disservice.

Would you say the same thing about someone with any other mental health problem? Depression for example?

Hold on, why are others saying the same?. Why are others seemingly held responsible for their actions?.

Alcoholism is pernicious; it does not just affect the alcoholic person. It's everyone around them who gets the fallout from their behaviours. I am not demonising the alcoholic; I'm just saying that everyone around them ends up taking the consequences for their behaviours.

I happen to think that alcoholism is an illness but I have read opposing views to this stance.

Al-anon is for family members of problem drinkers; this lady needs to talk to someone outside of MN wonderful though it is.

So you do believe it's an illness Atilla? Lots of other mental illnesses have a huge impact in the family. So using the same rationale if we consider bipolar affective disorder, schizophrenia, clinical depression...are all these people selfish by nature too? Would you say this about a depressive: "What a selfish man he is"?

How do you think an alcoholic recovers? If we were as selfish and self-centred as you believe, if we gleefully enjoyed manipulating everyone around us, creating havoc and devastating loved ones do you think we'd bother trying to get into recovery? I am still an alcoholic and when you make these sweeping statements you are actually talking about me. You know nothing about me, but let's just say instead of pontificating about things I have no experience of, I am active in trying to help those who are still suffering.

I have no quibble with this thread at all, I was married to an alcoholic myself and could have done with some support, but the message you're sending here Atilla is deeply flawed. I think it would be good for you, if you're intent on involving yourself in this that you truly understand what you're talking about. Go to an Al-Anon, it's an eduction.

I wish all of you well, and hope you find some peace.

Attila

Kokeshi, I think addicts do seem to be selfish - not because they're horrible people, and want to hurt others, but because their need for alcohol/drugs comes above the needs of those around them at least some of the time. That's my take on it, anyway. I don't want to offend you.

Gup - I'm glad yo managed to have some nice time as a family, and do proper family stuff, even if you do have that feeling of "how long til it goes wrong again"

Welcome to Conumdrum - I think this could be the right place for you. You're certainly very welcome to join us for support. I don't know how addiction is officially defined, but I guess if it's causing problems in life/relationships, and the person will not compromise or discuss the problem then it's not under control.

Idontcarewhoreadsthis - again, welcome. Hope you get some support from reading even if you don't feel up to sharing your stuff just now.

I'm feeling very angry right now. Partner asked for money earlier to pay for a Christmas night out - I checked and rang him to tell him there was no point him going back to work to pay the money tonight as they were closed already. Then he says he's popping out for cigarettes. 30 minutes later (there are loads of shops 10 mins there and back away) I call him and he says he'll be back soon, he's chatting to an old mate.

Then he just called me asking me to read a number out to him that he's written down. I'm about to when I recognise it as a supplier, so I refuse. He says it's for his friend, and now he will have to take the friend to this person's house??????!!!!! So by refusing to give him the number I am causing problems. What nonsense. Even if it's true, why help someone else get drugs? Surely by contacting someone / involving himself, he is putting temptation into his path? Is it more important to him to help his friend than keep totally out of it for his family's sake? I don't think I'm unreasonable to expect him to tell people he cannot help surely??????

Aaaagh - I've locked the doors against him, but I'm sure he'll come back knocking on the door etc. I don't really want to get into calling the police. Do I just let him back in, and then take steps properly this time to get him out of my life?

Just this evening he actually tried to help settle dd to sleep, as she's taking ages to fall asleep lately. It didnt work as she just laughed at him and started telling him to sleep, but I felt quite warm towards him for actually being a helpful partner for once. Now it's back to reality.

Sorry for majorly long post. Just a rant really, which seems to be what I use this thread for mostly - sorry everyone. I just need to get it off my chest sometimes

PHN he needs SUCH a major reality shift,,,,

just who is important here ? you and your dd - his family???? or helping some bloke to buy drugs ???? But of course as we ALL know that just an excuse to allow him to buy drugs,,,

big hugs this is very hard for you

but you are doing fab - and planning forthe future and caring fr your dd... just keep focussed on the future that he can be part of IF he can ditch the drug s

big hug

lsct xx

kokeshi

I really respect your opinion, being as it were on both sides of the fence...what would YOU say to Princesshobnob in the way of advice ?

what would you have said to me in Nov 05 when I posted initially about my drug addicted husband who kicked my children and made them cry?

I do NOT hate my H ; I believe he has an illness that he cannot help - the illness of addiction. But I also believe he has the choice to seek help and treatment for that illness or not. And that , until I stopped allowing him to pretend that everything was ok, he had no will or need to change anything. What gave ME the kick to get out of an abusive and destructive relationship was individual for me; but I honestly believe that when you are in a relationship with an addict, you cannot help them. You can only help and protect yourself .

Its true that addicts are totally selfish in the active phase of their addiction. When they are using, only using is important. To me that defines an addict . I am sure that recovering addicts are not any more selfish than the rest of us - that is because their need to use is no longer taking over everything..and there is space for other
relationships.

Attila is hard yes...... but a lot is horribly true, and maybe not what one wants to hear but rather what one NEEDS to hear

lsct xxx

hey lsct, my point was addressed to Attila because I am uncomfortable with anyone doling out advice on addictions if they have no personal experience of them.

I would never advise you or anyone else how to run your life - these are answers you must find yourself - but I know from experience that we all have to take responsibility for ourselves and our decisions. It's useful also to look at our own actions and motivations, in order that we can understand how we ended up where we are. Are our lives unmanageable? Why is that? Is there anything we can do to change it? If so then we must be courageous in taking action. If not, we must accept the person/situation/thing. This is what Al-Anon can help us with.

I didn't choose to be an alcoholic, it almost destroyed me, but I'm glad that when I did seek help I got a lot of encouragement and support. If someone had written me off like Attila seems to do with performing alcoholics, I may not have managed to get here. I would never wish an addiction on anyone, I've been to hell and back with it and it pisses me off that someone can be so ignorant. Walk a mile in another man's shoes...

I think support on here is invaluable, my only issue is with some of Attila's posts. This is a fantastic source of support and long may it continue . I'll leave you guys in peace now.

Hi Kokeshi

You probably won't read this but I don't write anyone off completely regardless of circumstance. To suggest otherwise is unkind. I'm not here to offend anyone actually but I am direct and can write words that are unpalatable to some at the time.

You actively sought help for your alcoholism; many of these men on here do not admit or want to admit they have a problem - that's the difference between you and them. Why do you think that is - many alcoholics are after all mired in denial and that is a powerful thing; that I feel is one reason. You faced your emotional pain rather than trying to continue to mask it in drink. I take my hat off to you for being strong and having the strength that these men need.

You do not know my personal experiences with regards to people in the throes of addiction but I do write from experience here. I am just saying that in relationships you cannot rescue or save some people who may not want to be saved; thus you can only protect your own self and any children around. They in particular should not have to witness alcoholism in their own childhoods.

As well, many alcoholics can be generous to a fault (perhaps that's where you primarily have an issue with me on the selfish point because they are not selfish in that sense) but they can still show extreme self centeredness and look at things from one perspective - often theirs alone.

Tinny Rattle Attila. This is an anonymous board, if you have personal experience of alcoholism and recovery you know a core part of that is sharing your own experience strength and hope. You dictate to people how they should run their lives without so much of a hint as to your own position. Who do you think you are? God?

Both AA and Al-Anon work on the basis that our lives are unmanageable, and we must look outside of ourselves to find a solution to the problem. We know from the past that we can't seem to work the situation our for ourselves, we repeat the same behaviours and progress further down the spiral. We must ask a higher power for help and guidance. It seems like you are taking on the roll of the higher power. So, if you are actually God then please accept my apologies.

Oh and one final thing. You cannot choose the parts of an illness that you like or dislike. You either accept it or you don't.

I do want to write more but I have to go out now to speak to some selfish alcoholics.

My understanding of the current (it?s only the second time in a few weeks!) issue is not so much what Attila says in her posts but more the way it is written and the fact that there is no personal information at all. Which is weird because all MNetters enjoy the anonymity to post about their life, foibles, happiness, anger, silly thoughts popping into their heads.

It?s not really related to this thread but I have recently thought that what I love about MN is that people talk, if they disagree with anything there?s always someone to explain another point of view. Which creates a real discussion. I treasure that because we all know that in RL, it?s not like that.

Attila?s posts are to the point and it?s just not the way most people post, especially on a thread like this.

Back to the reason we?re here, I would love to hear from secretsquirrel to know how the solicitor appointment went on Monday and I?m getting so stressed that I have started making mistakes at work, however I?ve already had my year end review so hopefully no one will remember next year!

OK, I've just been to speak to a medical professional who works in our local addiction services. I have been concerned enough by Attila's posts to seek outside (AA and Al-Anon) clarification on this.

The message you are sending Atilla is wrong. Do not attribute normal decision making skills and morals to someone who is in the active phase of addiction, it's harmful to families to believe that their partner/parent is consciously choosing the drug/alcohol over them.

PLease do not tell people how to run their lives. Even if you did have experience (which I doubt from your glaring ignorance), then you would NOT attempt to do this. Each family has to reach their own conclusions, if they can't support the addict then the must take care of themselves but it's not helpful to encourage resentment and bitterness.

In the active phase of addiction, the addict is not consciously responsible for choosing alcohol over everything else. It's purely down to the biological requirement for alcohol/drug to function that dictates that the addict will behave in whatever way necessary to obtain the drug/alcohol. It IS NOT a conscious choice, and neither is the denial of the problem. The addicted brain is not functioning in the capacity that a non-addicted brain does. If it's selfish to have a brain that can't control behaviours then all people with mental health problems must be inherently selfish too.

Like I said, if you have an interest in this area please educate yourself, either by going to open AA/Alanon meetings or researching the the science behind addiction. Just because you may be telling people what they want to hear, doesn't mean it is helpful or right.