He isn't in love with me yet

[movele]

I've been dating a lovely guy for the last 4 months. Both 30s. Things have been going well - we've been on holiday together, are on the same wavelength about everything, can stay talking nonsense for hours, sex is great, and we both really enjoy our time together. We had the bf/gf conversation 2 months in. I've met his parents and friends too.

We did have a few weeks of minor arguments because we had very different schedules at the time, and spending time together, and dealing with restrictions/lockdown was a challenge. But resolved these quickly and have gotten closer and more connected since.

A few weeks ago, I told him I loved him. And he said he liked and cared for me deeply, but didn't have those feelings yet. But saw the possibility of it turning to love in the future. Obviously I was upset, but he explained that to him love is an absolute - if he fell in love, that was him committing to always love me. And he never understood people who fell in love, then fell out of love. He also said, that he can't remember the last time he told his parents he loved them, though he is very close to them.

As background - he has never had a serious relationship before, (I'm his first), or been in love (though he has had a few crushes, if i can call it that). This is mainly because he did a lot of travelling and had a major career change so not a lot of time for dating. He is also not from an affectionate or emotionally expressive family, though he is close to them, and very affectionate with me. I, however, have had a few long term/live in type relationships, and come from a VERY affectionate and emotional family.

I asked him why he was with me then - and he said he could see a future, and loved spending time with me, fancied me, and am one of the only people he is comfortable opening up to.

To not drip feed: one of the only issues we have, related to our intial arguments. When we are not together (Which is 4-5 days a week), he isn't very communicative by text, and would never call. Will always reply though. He has gotten better after I've told him I need to not feel like he's forgotten me when I'm not around. So he will now ocassionally call (I told him specifically I wanted this) and does text more. But not sure if this is related to him not being in love with me?

Since then, I haven't brought it up again, or said it. He has been making more effort to be more attentive since then. I do love him, and understand that people move at different paces, and 4 months is not long. However, every relationship I've had my bf has said it first, about 2 months in. And I've heard that men know pretty quickly if they love you or not.

So I don't know how long I should wait till he says it? Or whether it's a bad sign that he doesn't reciprocate my feelings? I do feel quite insecure about this, as the more time we spend, the more deeply I fall but am always conscious he may never reciprocate.

Can anyone advice me on what to do, or if they've had a situation where their feelings weren't reciprocated till much later?

[quote Hatty2020]@movele my BF told me after 3 months but he went round the houses saying it and could tell it was not something he said lightly. But to be honest the lack of communication when you don’t see each other would bother me more than if he hadn’t said I love you by 4 months. I agree you need that communication when you aren’t together and I find it odd people are saying it’s needy. I wouldn’t want to be with someone who took “days off” and didn’t contact me at all. Shows lack of investment.[/quote]

I wouldn't want to be with a man so dependent as to need daily reassurance and attention. Ugh!

After 4 months I would want the man I was seeing to actually want to communicate with me regularly because he misses me, or just enjoys speaking to me. He doesn't need guidance because he hasn't been in a relationship before, that's just making excuses.

Not sure it's at all healthy to be dating someone who doesn't text/contact you at all during the week. You have very low expectations of men if you expect any less.

That's the thing OP. He is only doing it now because you argued about it and had to ask him. I can't see how him contacting you, knowing he wouldn't do it off his own back, can make you happy. I have never known a man who is really into someone who wouldn't want to make contact at some point during the week.

I don't think this relationship is going where you want it to go,.

@PerveenMistry I agree with OP and it’s not needy or desperate - it’s normal if you’re in a progressing relationship

OP at the end of the post you said "what shall I do?" Well IMHO, absolutely nothing, it sounds like things are moving on fine. Yes he was poor at communicating, but has changed that since you spoke to him, that speaks volumes, he'd rather up the input than lose you, that is a good thing. The declaration, well, someone has to say it first, now he knows, no need to press it, just carry on as you were. If he's not running a mile or behaving differently towards you since, it's all a good sign.
As you were, he might come out with it in the future, but know that words don't mean much, it's how you are treated that counts. I don't think you need to give this a second thought tbh and as you've found, asking the question on here can lead to paranoia if you listen to some people who look for the red flags in any post. It's early days, so just keep going with the happy flow for now, don't change a thing, you've said it now, so he can have the confidence to say it to you when he's ready

Mines isn’t the same situation but similar in waiting for something terms.

I met DP at 34.5 and before this I didn’t want kids. Everyone always said that I’d change my mind when I met the right guy, I thought they were talking rubbish. Anyway, turns out when you meet the right person your ovaries do go into overdrive.

DP already has a child from his marriage (bad marriage, ExW was difficult when it came to access and all that jazz) so when I met DP he was of the mind that as things had went tits up with his current child that he didn’t want any more. I was a bit crushed but kept it to myself. I thought he would change his mind because I knew he was the family man type and would probably enjoy more children but thought his experience with the ex was clouding this. And in my mind, if he didn’t change his mind then eventually I would have split up with him. I had a 6-12 month timeframe.

As it happens we sorted out access and it’s been consistent for the last year. After a couple of months of his daughter staying with us and doing things as a family he prompted the having children with me conversation and I’ve been off the pill for the last 6 months. I went with my gut on this, my initial reaction was to dump him right away (I’m a bit impulsive and impatient) but I knew deep down he would change his mind but if he didn’t I had the 6-12 month timeframe as a back up.

Only you will know if you want to wait for this man to say the words you want to hear. As PP have said, it’s a bit of a red flag that he’s never had a relationship longer than 6 months.

I totally get the feeling of urgency with the biological clock ticking, I’ll be 37 in a few months and I’m worried that I’ve been off contraception for 6 months already with no baby. But only you know what your timeframe is. You can post on here all you like but people don’t know you or him so they can’t really say for sure. Maybe you give him another 2 months or another 6? Only you can decide. Good luck.

Anyway, turns out when you meet the right person your ovaries do go into overdrive.

Not for everyone. I'm definitely with the right person and it wasnt my over-estimate that went into overdrive

Jesus. Ovaries.

I think you need to chill op. Sounds fine to me.
See how things go over the next few months.

@MaxNormal oh no,totally meant in relation to myself that being true :)

@MaxNormal and obviously I'm raging that my mother was right ;)

Wow there is some very mean and judgmental advice on here! What started off as a simple post has become the poster defending herself against some real nastiness . I don’t think it’s needy to set some ground rules about what makes you happy and the sort of contact you want - isn’t that building a strong relationship with good communication? Men and women can sometimes be on a different page especially when they are still getting to know each other. Keep doing what you’re doing as this sounds like a healthy relationship. I have a good vibe and hope it progresses to babies and a future !

@movele it doesn't matter if someone thinks you're needy or not, it only matters of that behaviour bothers him. You told him what you need, he's happy with that, all good. He's a grown man so if he wasn't happy with that, he'd be entitled to walk away.

I understand the words are important bit don't underestimate the non verbal. It might take time for him to say it, but does he treats you how you'd wanted to be treated by someone who loves you?

What was the consensus re kids? Was he on board with having them soon?

Thank you very much to all those who offered advice, constructive feedback and helpful anecdotes. You've been very helpful! And I've decided to carry on as we are till the Spring. And then if his feelings haven't progressed, I will walk away. As much as I love him, it's a huge incompatibility to not have the same level of emotional investment and so I will be heartbroken. But practical. Atm I'm optimistic because he knows my timelines, knows my needs for a child and none of that has scared him off. He's introduced me to his parents and asked me to spend Xmas with them (I can't travel home with lockdown). So I believe like many have said, he just needs more time and when he says it will really mean it. So I'll bite my anxiety and wait for now.

To everyone who's been very insulting of my needs and boundaries - I would challenge you to change your thinking, has it ever occurred to you, that I'M the catch here. And he doesn't want to lose me even if he needs time to figure out how he feels? And that he likes me because I'm direct, honest and communicate well, things he's not experienced before? I've been genuinely shocked by how many people think establishing any boundaries makes me needy or I should be worried about scaring a man off. If he didn't agree with my needs or demands, or thinks I'm 'desperate' he would have walked away. He's an adult, very successful man! And if he does, I'll be devastated but I'm mature enough to know love doesn't conquer all. Just because I love him doesn't mean I'm going to bend over backwards to keep him.

Again, thanks to everyone who shared their POV. You've all been very helpful and your advice is very much appreciated. I will definitely provide an update when I have one.

To everyone who's been very insulting of my needs and boundaries - I would challenge you to change your thinking, has it ever occurred to you, that I'M the catch here. And he doesn't want to lose me even if he needs time to figure out how he feels? And that he likes me because I'm direct, honest and communicate well, things he's not experienced before?

This above sounds so wrong in so many ways OP.

[quote movele]@PerveenMistry Am I you? No. Do I have the same expectations you do of a relationship? No. So do I care if you're not so needy? No.

Frankly, you sound bitter and jealous if you think communicating with someone on the level of contact you would like, is 'desperation'. It's called COMMUNICATION. That adult way of having relationships. And I'd be daft to not let him know - just let it fester and cause arguments? He has never had a relationship before, ergo he does need some guidance from me on what I like/want. Why on earth would I expect him to read my mind??

To posters who actually have advice on how to deal with someone not reciprocating your feelings, thank you.[/quote]
You need to wind your neck in @movele

@2021optimist

OP you seem overly needy and are aggressive to those who disagree with you. I can't imagine why he's not already in love with you.

Well said, and the poor man probably getting hounded over not calling her when he is probably out on a shout somewhere. Very defensive and needy, and no @movele @Bluntness100 was not rude at all, unlike you.

It's been 4 months... 11 days holiday together and meeting parents, does not a hypothetical future marriage proposal and a child together make. Give it time to at least get out of the honeymoon stage. 'I love you' is just words and talk is cheap. Also imho are the 'if I say it I really mean it, and will forever' sentiments. How the fuck could anyone honestly know that? Yes, it can be extremely difficult to navigate the dating seas when you at the age of if you're thinking 'I would like to have a child, is this person the one? Or do I look elsewhere?'. But I'd personally not try and fast forward a brand new relationship to fit in with my hoped for potential future outcome. I've got tins of soup older than 4mths. But I do genuinely hope you have your happy ever after OP.

The thing is, some people can say I love you, as easily as what's for supper, and for some it may be just words that they know there partner wants them to say, where's other people they may take more time to say but then when they do they mean the words.

I'M the catch here

Fucking hell.

Thing is, it’s not just about his not having said he loves the OP. There are a number of red flags which go before this which potentially lead into the disappointment.

He’s never had a long-term relationship before. For me that would leave me wondering when he was going to end it with me, because how would he decide I’m different.

He doesn’t communicate between the times they’re together. This is the honeymoon phase, if he had serious feelings for the OP then he would want to be in touch, would want to speak to her, know how she is, it’s natural to want to do that.

And then when she’s said she loves him not only has he not said it back (understandable) but he’s outright said he doesn’t feel the same.

And this runs back to the previous red flags of no communication and no long term relationships.

He doesn’t communicate with the OP because he doesn’t love her.

He’s never loved anyone hence why he’s never had a long-term relationship, andhe doesn’t love the OP which leaves it safe to say he doesn’t consider this to be a long term relationship either.

I wouldn’t necessarily end it purely because the lack of an “i love you,” but I would based on all the factors above.

You say he’s not the prize but you’re the catch... it’s a bit of an odd position to take. Presumably he IS a catch too... otherwise why do you want him? I understand that you feel a bit vulnerable but it has only been a relatively short timescale. I think if I were him I might be a bit hurt to discover that this thread even exists when he seems to have been pretty responsive to your needs.

Haven’t read all the thread yet, I said it first my partner said it weeks maybe months later ten years later it’s fuzzy. It was fine he wasn’t going to say something he didn’t mean/feel.
Once he said it I knew he meant it. You are still early days just enjoy the time you have and let things grow organically.

Oh dear, this is only going to end one way, isn't it!

Railroading a bf into into 'feeling' & saying 'I Love You' then having babies after just 4 months (just because you went cycling with him) is crazy.

Either you will be lucky and end up as a single parent or it will go south!

😢

I think it's healthy to have expectations like yours op. I think you're coming across quite aggressive because you're reacting to being needled, which is unfortunate because it's playing into the narrative some people have decided for you.

Anyway - I was very much like you when i meet dh. Had had one very long term relationship beforehand, done a bit of no strings sex and casual flings for a while after that relationship and then by the time i wanted to settle down had decided I would give a relationship 3 months before knowing if this is it or not. I have no idea where i got 3 months from, it felt like a decent amount of time to know if it was worth carrying on with. In my case, my now dh did tell me he loved me at around 3 months. I don't know what i would have done if he hadn't but i would have addressed it by 4 months, yes. For me it would make no sense just bumbling along me being in love but having no idea if it was going anywhere or not.

From your posts i think you're right to be wondering what to do. I don't think it's a lost cause, I'd probably give it a couple more months, see how it goes and then decide if you want to just wait indefinitely.

@movele

Tbh, some of the responses I'm getting here are baffling.... The man has a drawer in my flat, I have his spare key, we've cycled the length of the UK together, we've discussed children as I'm 37 and don't have unlimited time (he gets this). I'm not asking if I'm needy as I absolutely do not think I am. And my bf would laugh at this notion.

I have asked how to deal when one person (me) has stronger feelings than the other (bf)? Am I supposed to wait 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 3 years to then be told "Sorry, my feelings haven't evolved, bye!"? Or wait for him to meet someone he does fall head over heels in while I'm patiently waiting? I'm asking whether relationships have survived the disparity in feelings and how that has worked out.

OP, a male perspective here.

In your second paragraph you are essentially asking 'how long is a piece of string'.

Of course it's the perfect scenario when you turn to your new partner and say ILY, and they say it back. Cue much kissing, hugging and a general feeling of contentment as life doesn't get much better at that point.

From your first post it sounds like you have an understanding of the way he feels (men are fairly simple creatures after all) and it sounds like he is getting to the point when he will be able to say that he loves you.

You say that he has changed as he is more attentive, and I hope this has made you feel better. As you say, this is an unnatural/unknown feeling for him, but I'm afraid you are just going to have to give him time. Only you can decide how long you give him, but I would try and accept the posts made by others about not putting undue pressure on him. He's been very honest with you, and you with him, but I think you just have to wait this one out.

Of course the other option is to end the relationship now and look for someone that can give you what you need when you want it.

Clearly you love this man, and I hope he gets to that point with you....we all deserve to be loved.