He isn't in love with me yet

[movele]

I've been dating a lovely guy for the last 4 months. Both 30s. Things have been going well - we've been on holiday together, are on the same wavelength about everything, can stay talking nonsense for hours, sex is great, and we both really enjoy our time together. We had the bf/gf conversation 2 months in. I've met his parents and friends too.

We did have a few weeks of minor arguments because we had very different schedules at the time, and spending time together, and dealing with restrictions/lockdown was a challenge. But resolved these quickly and have gotten closer and more connected since.

A few weeks ago, I told him I loved him. And he said he liked and cared for me deeply, but didn't have those feelings yet. But saw the possibility of it turning to love in the future. Obviously I was upset, but he explained that to him love is an absolute - if he fell in love, that was him committing to always love me. And he never understood people who fell in love, then fell out of love. He also said, that he can't remember the last time he told his parents he loved them, though he is very close to them.

As background - he has never had a serious relationship before, (I'm his first), or been in love (though he has had a few crushes, if i can call it that). This is mainly because he did a lot of travelling and had a major career change so not a lot of time for dating. He is also not from an affectionate or emotionally expressive family, though he is close to them, and very affectionate with me. I, however, have had a few long term/live in type relationships, and come from a VERY affectionate and emotional family.

I asked him why he was with me then - and he said he could see a future, and loved spending time with me, fancied me, and am one of the only people he is comfortable opening up to.

To not drip feed: one of the only issues we have, related to our intial arguments. When we are not together (Which is 4-5 days a week), he isn't very communicative by text, and would never call. Will always reply though. He has gotten better after I've told him I need to not feel like he's forgotten me when I'm not around. So he will now ocassionally call (I told him specifically I wanted this) and does text more. But not sure if this is related to him not being in love with me?

Since then, I haven't brought it up again, or said it. He has been making more effort to be more attentive since then. I do love him, and understand that people move at different paces, and 4 months is not long. However, every relationship I've had my bf has said it first, about 2 months in. And I've heard that men know pretty quickly if they love you or not.

So I don't know how long I should wait till he says it? Or whether it's a bad sign that he doesn't reciprocate my feelings? I do feel quite insecure about this, as the more time we spend, the more deeply I fall but am always conscious he may never reciprocate.

Can anyone advice me on what to do, or if they've had a situation where their feelings weren't reciprocated till much later?

Bloody hell you're full on OP! It's a forum, people share their opinions and you choose who you engage with.

You're getting angry with strangers who disagree with you or think you're being unhealthily intense considering how short a time you've known him.

Most people I know would think four months is very early to be worried about whether someone has said they love you or not - you clearly don't agree but most people I've met would say it's very early regardless of a 1.5 week bike ride together.

You seem to have a very romanticised view of relationships and accusing others of having a low bar because they have different communication styles when it comes to frequency is uncalled for - especially when even your boyfriends communication style is naturally more inline with those posters who said they would have been happy with how he was.

There's a lot to be said for being naturally compatible when it comes to words of affirmation and communication, as I said in my first post.

If you're this defensive all the time then it will cause issues in the relationship too.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

OP you seem overly needy and are aggressive to those who disagree with you. I can't imagine why he's not already in love with you.

[quote movele]@dozer Tbh, this does worry me.... We have talked about it and he is showing efforts to adapt his schedule so he's around more. But it is something I'm a little wary of as his job really is unpredictable. The only reason I've not walked away is because I was considering going down the sperm donor route anyway (before I met him) so was expecting to do this alone. So am open to adapting a bit to keep him in my life, as when he's around he's very handy/attentive.[/quote]
Just got to this bit. Why not freeze some eggs? Then the time pressure may ease off a it.

Ah OP, to you, and me, being 'in love' is a wonderful all consuming passion that sweeps you away. It's intoxicating and it doesn't last, but it can, if you're lucky, grow into a deep and commited love.
And you can experience it more than once.

Your DP though thinks 'love' is a serious commitment.

You are speaking different languages. You have a semantic issue.

The question really is: does he feel the same way about you, but you are calling it diffrent things?

TBH though more concerning for me is the lack of calling and texting you and you feeling like he doesn't prioritise you. This combined with the avoidance of the I Love you suggets to me, he could be an avoidant type, who shies away from intimacy when he feels he's getting close, and those relationships can lead to a life time of not really feeling loved.
You may not be a needy person, but 3 years down the line you could find you've become needy as he always withdraws.

It can be a miserbale cycle.

Tbh, this does worry me.... We have talked about it and he is showing efforts to adapt his schedule so he's around more. But it is something I'm a little wary of as his job really is unpredictable. The only reason I've not walked away is because I was considering going down the sperm donor route anyway (before I met him) so was expecting to do this alone. So am open to adapting a bit to keep him in my life, as when he's around he's very handy/attentive. Still just sounds like sperm donation rather than you being in love with him to be honest!

@movele I agree with you OP about the contact thing doesn't take long to send a text and it shows they are thinking about you, doesn't he want to know if you're ok? This should be the honeymoon phase. My ex could go three weeks without contacting me (at the beginning of our relationship) and it broke my heart and I just didn't understand it, in the end we made it to the four year mark, but I had to break things off. It was toxic. The no contact should have been a red flag as he just didn't want to speak to me and was messaging every other woman under the sun, if I could go back in time I'd tell myself to let him go and sow my wild oats and play the field. That was my youth and I'm so sad I wasted it on that shitsack. Anyway, he sounds like a coldfish, wouldn't be my type, I like a bit of passion and infatuation.

I am puzzled as to why you have accused posters (most likely that you know nothing about) of being bitter, jealous and now “projecting”. Just because somebody sees things differently to you, does not mean they are bitter or have problems in their own life. It sounds like you might be dating a nice enough man and maybe the relationship will work out, but nothing you have said about this new relationship sounds like it would provoke any particular envy either. You are very hostile to posters that don’t say what you want to read.

I think it is reasonable for anyone to want good contact and communication after four months, but the comments that I saw about that were more about the fact that you had to demand this rather than him wanting to all by himself.

To your question, how long to give it. I would say max one year and if the relationship is not moving forward by then probably time to call it a day.

Well... A bit unusual I know (understatement of the year) but my DH of 20+ years has never once said ‘I love you’ to me.
He shares his whole life with me and nobody else for all this time so I guess he’s fond of me at least! 😂

Hmm. On paper, fine - you haven't been together long at all and it all means different things to different people.

BUT this:

'he explained that to him love is an absolute - if he fell in love, that was him committing to always love me. And he never understood people who fell in love, then fell out of love.

• sounds incredibly affected and OTT. Like he's some sort of wild-eyed loner type and quite likes that mental picture. Quite silly really. He doesn't understand why people fall out of love? Err, ok.

Maybe not, but I'd be very aware that maybe there's a good reason why he hasn't dated for longer than 6 months in his 30s. Don't give this guy more than one chance and throw him back if there are any niggles. It does sound a bit like he could end up wasting your time.

@youvegottenminuteslynn because there's a whole bunch of posters on here who take great pleasure in being denigrating and seem to delight in making women feel bad for having needs and wishes different to their own. Words like 'needy', 'desperate', 'full on', nasty little digs, insults - not necessary or helpful. None of which answer my actual question!

Absolutely no chance you'd talk to people like this in person, so why do it online.

It's my thread, and I can choose to respond to whoever I want to. And if anyone reads this in the future I want them to know they are not needy for setting boundaries and having standards.

“ It my thread” ...no it’s really not. Anybody can post anything within MN guidelines. I think you do sound very sensitive and that’s probably at the root of your problem ie your BF isn’t responding in the way you expect so you are upset, and MNers aren’t responding in the way you expected so you are getting upset.

It's my thread, and I can choose to respond to whoever I want to. And if anyone reads this in the future I want them to know they are not needy for setting boundaries and having standards.

Woah OP...
Nightmare.

@MrsGrindah out of 87 posters, I'd say about 60 posts have been very useful and I'm listening to, and appreciating their advice.

Everyone highlighting some red flags in our relationship to be aware of, thank you. These are very useful, and maybe I have not considered them enough with my focus on just worrying he doesn't love me.

Also thank you, to everyone suggesting we may be just incompatible in love languages and emotional requirements. It has occurred to me reading some of your examples - and that makes me sad because I'm not sure it's something that can be easily resolved in future.

Must be something in the water tonight. I agree OP, you've been treated awfully on this thread and it has been completely uncalled for. First time I've felt the need to say this...

OP I think the fact you now feel in a place where you have to decide whether you should stay with him and how much time to give it will probably start to erode the relationship anyway, unless you are able to make peace with yourself over 'waiting'.

You are obviously keen to have a child and hoping this relationship is going to start moving in that direction. I can understand this puts a pressure on you which is hard to ignore (been there myself).

Saying I love you can make someone feel very vulnerable and exposed, and I wonder if you now feel a little like this and your protective defences are now kicking in.

I made my DH wait for me to say it back. I was falling in love with him but I wanted to be sure he was genuine and not just a narcissistic cocklodger. He wasn’t.

It was the other way round for us - my now DH told me he loved me after about 3 months and I could only say I cared about him. I didn't want to say I loved him too soon.

I did become sure. We've been together for 30 years. So I think people just have to go at their own pace.

OP, I feel that you shouldn't have had the bf/gf or exclusivity conversation with someone who is not in regular (nothing needy about once, twice a day) contact.

I can't even get excited about meeting someone when online dating if they respond to messages every few days only. In fact, that's the number one reason I ghost or unmatch.
I myself do very low contact sometimes - when I'm not that interested!

Too much time apart, not enough communication, and I would be back out there looking for more!

Love can wait. The rest is a red flag.

Don't want to put a spanner in the works but I've been with someone who was a bit like this. I know 4 months is too soon but for me it took 11 months to realise where I was wasting my time and he was just not that into me . I later found out that he was just an emotionally unavailable man to his exes too and 7 years on, he is still single in his 40's and the closest he ever got in serious relationships was to propose to his most recent fiancé where they also broke up and she's apparently sharing "Don't waste time with men who are emotionally unavailable". With my DH, we instantly knew we were the one for each other and everything just fit so perfectly.

OP - I dated a man with similar relationship history .... ie no long term relationships by the 30s; very focused on his job; closed off emotionally; thoughtful; bit of a loner as not used to a ‘relationship’....
Men like this can change and eventually have a proper relationship and kids.
However it takes years. There isn’t a rush for them. And at 37, OP - I don’t think you’ll be able to wait as long as it takes.

I was younger than you when I was with that bf. Left him after a few years, despite being very much in love. But it wasn’t going anywhere and I wanted to meet someone to have kids with in a few years. And I did.
He also go there but it took him another 10 years.

You are in a difficult age OP, unfortunately, ideally you should already be trying for the kids as it may take a while. This is possibly why you are in such a rush to feel, express end decide. And also unfortunately - your timeline makes it difficult to have a relationship with you as he will be feeling the pressure to decide by some date in a very near future.
I have seen it happen to a few friends in your age - they tried to meet partner/baby daddy in late 30s and failed as it was just too much for the men to deal with. Some ended up going IVF, some are childless. Some key partners after having their kids.

In your place I’d freeze my eggs, and also decide when to start IVF, irrespective of the status of your relationship. And I’d not wait much past 38.

Op the calling etc is the same thing that happened with the guy I was with for 11 months too. He would only text in the evenings and would never call. Again 4 months in, I told him that we should be talking to each other on the phone. You have described the man I wasted 11 months with. Again, have you ever been in love with question he would say no. And then the love question he would say he cared for me very deeply and saw a future with me. But with DH, the calling, the exclusivity and then the I love you happened within 3 months. Please be wary .

@ChristmasFluff and @YoniAndGuy This is what my friend warned me about actually. That he might have a version of love that is so idealised it's impossible to reach. Because I don't have an example of when he has been in love before, it's hard to know how achievable it is for him. Like I definitely, don't understand how he thinks it will last forever...

Another poster suggested to him love is basically a commitment to forever/proposal - god, I hope not (that could be a long way away), but they might be right. I just don't know is my problem.

@BuffaloMozzerella Thank you for hitting the nail on the head!

I do feel so much more vulnerable atm and it is hard to just relax and enjoy things, though I am hiding it well. And he doesn't realise all this internal turmoil I'm going through. I really wish I had met him when a lot younger, when I didn't have to worry about fertility as well. And could have then just taken my time with no worries. Argh! it's just a really exposed place to be atm. But I can't do anything now but wait. Till I can't wait anymore.

@willsa Thank you very much for you support, and understanding why text/communication is such a big indicator of interest in these modern days of dating. He has gotten a lot better since the early days, but I'm guessing only time will tell if this continues from him. I'm trying to stay positive though!

Took me 15mo to say it to DP, luckily he didnt push me so i didnt have to try to be tactful

@numbbycocomelon Haha, are you sure it isn't the same guy? But what you have described is my big worry really. But because my feelings are so strong atm I can't walk away. So trying to figure out an appropriate timeline to give myself. I can likely wait till next summer - and if still no change, heartbreak and then sperm donor time I guess.