TW. Sex feels like rape.

[placemarker]

Name changed for obvious reasons.

Married a little over a year, been together for two years. Great relationship, very happy and understanding with love and affection.
I was indisidiously abused when I was younger (15, sleeping with two 25 year olds who made me feel pressured and a 51 year old when I was 16, though that wasn't assault because I was legal but still traumatising). Didn't realised previously that I had been taken advantage of because I didn't realise I was vulnerable, had all the bullshit of being "mature" for my age so thought it was OK these men wanted me.

I don't like having sex with my husband. I feel like I need to do it anyway (though he doesn't put any pressure on me) because it's a big part of a relationship and I'm not comfortable with him watching porn or wanking (please don't have a go at me about this). We had sex with morning and I couldn't stop thinking about my ex, one who I really loved - it made me feel horrible during sex but I don't ever say stop when it's started. I said for him not to do something during foreplay and he said OK, but he did it after he finished as a joke - nothing bad but felt bad because of aforementioned ex stuff and discomfort during sex. I know it sounds bad but he didn't have bad intentions, he's a good person and I think he meant it as a joke.

I've been to therapy, I've told people who can help about my experience, I've acknowledged what happened. I'm with a good person and I love him, but this is an issue and I haven't been able to solve it with counselling or external support.
I think it's worsened by not having much physical attraction, I don't know how to solve this. If you have any advice, please help. Sorry if this is triggering.

Don't have sex with someone you're not attracted to, no wonder it feels like rape.
I have a history of abuse and am currently having therapy which incorporates cbt amongst other things and it's really helping me to reframe what's happened to me in particular why I settled for things sexually which made me feel bad. I am now not having sex with anyone and not rushing to either as the last few experiences made me feel abused.
I have also had a lot of sex I didn't want because I didn't want my partner wanking or watching porn.
It was my anxiety and lack of self esteem and a big part of me dissociating from myself in order to please them when really they were lucky to have me.
You can't change another person but you absolutely CAN change your own mind. I am walking living breathing proof of this. I will NEVER sell myself short again.
Please try and get help with your past, and maybe this relationship isn't for you.
There's so many books about trauma and in the first instance I'd suggest From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker and get yourself on a therapy waiting list.
If we are unhealed we're likely to keep putting ourselves in situations which make us feel bad.

[quote waterproofed]**@placemarker

But what are you feeling when he wanks, exactly? Is it a sense of responsibility for his sexual pleasure? A sense of failure for not being able to satisfying him at all times? Or is it jealousy? Can you describe why, if on an intellectual level you understand his desire and his right for sexual pleasure by himself, it simultaneously causes you anguish?

Sometimes, victims of abuse (myself included) have a hard time properly understanding their feelings because so much abuse is tied up with disassociation. Survivors often disassociate so much in order to survive that they sometimes loose their innate understanding of their own desires and emotions. This understanding does come back, but it takes a little work.[/quote]
Oh wow, crossed post @placemarker! Yes to the dissociation! Brilliant post.

And likewise @famousforwrongreason - loved your post.

Isn’t good therapy literally priceless? There’s so much joy in healing and I’m really happy it’s happening to you.

But what are you feeling when he wanks, exactly? Is it a sense of responsibility for his sexual pleasure? A sense of failure for not being able to satisfying him at all times? Or is it jealousy? Can you describe why, if on an intellectual level you understand his desire and his right for sexual pleasure by himself, it simultaneously causes you anguish? @waterproofed

Because my self esteem is totally shit and I don't think I'm worthy of anything, so of course he would need someone else to be satisfied. Because he has to outsource his sexual satisfaction and I'm completely failing him. I'm jealous too, I'm insecure, I'm everything you don't want in a wife.

@famousforwrongreason I'm so happy you got past it. I don't have much I can say that means anything, but I truly wish you all the best and hope it all works out in the long run.

I should add to the wanking part, total repulsion and I don't know why. Maybe because masturbation seems like you have out-of-control sexual urges in this context, even if that's a batshit way of viewing it. I don't know, I don't understand it either

@waterproofed

And likewise *@famousforwrongreason* - loved your post.

Isn’t good therapy literally priceless? There’s so much joy in healing and I’m really happy it’s happening to you.

You sound really lovely. This joy is unreal, for the first time in my life I feel like I have choices and autonomy and freedom I've never experienced before. Sounds like you have that too. @OP, I think you have said you have disabilities? I do too, I'm a single mum working part time and it is often a struggle but I would never give up my freedom and peace of mind for a relationship where I feel any real or perceived danger or which triggers me. It may be he's the right guy for you but currently this dynamic is unhealthy for both of you. I believe therapy either private or NHS could help you to unpick this and help you decide how to proceed. Keep yourself safe x

@placemarker It’s so complex, isn’t it? Why do you think you’re not worthy of love even when you are in a loving marriage?

I hope you can see that these expectations of being everything to your partner, sexually or otherwise, are entirely unrealistic. The most amazing lover (who would that even be?) would never be able to satisfy another person at all times because we are all different and that’s not what good sex should be like anyway. Most good people, men or women, don’t want subservience and having their needs met at all costs - they are looking for a connection instead. Connection means both people have to want it.

Why do you judge yourself so harshly for being human?

@placemarker

I should add to the wanking part, total repulsion and I don't know why. Maybe because masturbation seems like you have out-of-control sexual urges in this context, even if that's a batshit way of viewing it. I don't know, I don't understand it either

It's not batshit, it's a trauma response. Wanking is normal for everyone but it's how and when and what to that can be problematic, for you the thought of it is triggering stuff about abusive men and rape. I have felt exactly this. It's why I'm currently choosing to stay single because I have a very low opinion of men based on mine and others' experience and until I've worked through that I'm going to keep attracting the same kind of guy.

Why do you judge yourself so harshly for being human?

Because I don't feel human. I feel like I'm just watching my life go past me, I guess like a camera on a TV show. I don't think I've ever accepted that I exist as a person. A lot of it is probably from my childhood, but I don't know how to deal with that either.

Why do you think you’re not worthy of love even when you are in a loving marriage?
I guess I can't see why anyone would love me. Sorry @waterproofed
this probably wasn't the Sunday night Mumsnet discussion you were hoping for!

Yeah, I'm disabled due to my autism and mental health conditions @famousforwrongreason, I don't know how to push through it. I feel incapable. Thank you, keep yourself safe also.

@famousforwrongreason I’m so happy to have stumbled across your story here.

Yes, I’m free and have been for a long time. It’s the sweetest feeling and I never let anyone (myself included) treat me badly anymore - it’s honestly a superpower.

Your boundaries have been manipulated, trodden on for far too long.

Essentially Op you may or maybe sexually Compatible with your husband??
Only you know
You really need to go into specific therapy for survivors of sexual abuse in childhood on your own, or with a good enough supportive person it obvious can be your husband or a good friend/family member whatever feels right, better for you.

Also look into a relate kind of marriage Therapy to explore your and your husbands feelings to with
being intimate and how to overcome this kind of issue in a relantships.

Sex therapy I think you should look into aswell I think this would be beneficial for you.

(As this kind of therapy would focus more on on intimacy and how to over come any barriers that holding you back as couple etc.
for e.g exploring playful/sexual touch massage.

Also look into Karma sutra sexual practices etc as their is less emphasis of the western emphasis on the man having to do thrusting etc /male ejaculation type of thing.

With karma sutra there is a lot more emphasis on exploring intimaticy/sensual aspects in your relantship (not so much the physical sexual aspect..

I also think that masturbating whether male or female or as a couple is healthy/normal in a way that is mutually respectful in a relantship.
But I do get understand because of your shitty experinces you have had in the past,
Mastarbating is a trigger point for you because you relate /masturbating, coercively /being taken advantaged abused by /Sexual Predators.

Basically these Arse holes have messed up your head so much they have Confused you in what is normal/weird kind of sexual practices.

Really sorry you experienced this Op
You need to ensure its priority you look after your needs properly
Such as eating healthy
Such as treating yourself by having holistic therapy session such as hot stone massage etc
Healthspa session or do similar at home
Listen to good music
Watch funny feel good comedy TV shows/stand up comedians
Watch good films
Walk in nature
Do star gazing
Try meditation its free and can be beneficial 10-15mins (nice mediation sounds on YouTube
Best of Luck xxx
You deserve it
Take care

@placemarker haha, you don’t have to worry about disappointing my expectations - it’s a lot more interesting than what I had expected. What if I told you that I find your thoughts and experiences really rather interesting? I find it fascinating how we are all trying to make sense out of this world and our emotions.

Now that you mentioned your autism your thinking around wanking in particular makes a lot more sense - the revulsion and the inability to separate your own view of somebody else’s sexuality from that sexuality are all part of that. It is hard for a lot of people not to see sex as a zero-sum game - your partner’s private gain becomes your private loss/failure. In fact, both people in a relationship need a little bit of sexual privacy so that they can come together - pun unintended.

More importantly, however, it sounds as though your emotional needs were not properly met in childhood. It’s really worth unpacking that with a trained therapist. It will be hard work, but you may find that it helps your MH issues enormously.

@thosetalesofunexpected Thank you. I can't say anything else but thank you. I appreciate you.

More importantly, however, it sounds as though your emotional needs were not properly met in childhood. It’s really worth unpacking that with a trained therapist. I have, multiple times. I think that makes it a lot harder, because "get counselling / get medicated / get help" is everything people say and I've done it several times. Sometimes it even felt like it was helping. But it hasn't actually helped - I just feel more stuck now the options seem exhausted. @waterproofed

Hi Op
I ment mastarbiting as long as done in a way that mutual respectful such as for e.g if male or female in a loving caring relantship did mastarbation in the privacy of the bathroom on there own in a discreet manner, or as a couple asking permission in a loving playful foreplay way to do this to each other or do 69 position.

I am angry for you these Arseholes have made you feel this way..

You have every right to enjoy intimacy and sex in whatever way in your relantship
This is why these kinds of therapies be beneficial for yourself and your husband/relantship

@placemarker

Also this is super deep and very interesting to me:

“Because I don't feel human. I feel like I'm just watching my life go past me, I guess like a camera on a TV show. I don't think I've ever accepted that I exist as a person. A lot of it is probably from my childhood, but I don't know how to deal with that either.”

I remember my own childhood realisation that I was separate from everyone else and I did experience it as a kind of trauma — and I’m as neurologically typical as they come. Again, bearing in mind your autism, it would make sense for you to experience growing up as a sense of rupture and chaos you could not quite make sense of - which is maybe why you don’t have a feeling of self-acceptance. You have so much insight; I’m sure a bit of work with a skilled therapist would benefit your life enormously. You really deserve that chance to make sense of your feelings.

@placemarker

But you’re not stuck. You are just still searching for solutions. So am I. It’s ok not to have figured everything out all at once. Sometimes it takes years for some stuff to come to the surface. In some ways, therapy is a life long process and it is never done. That’s not a reason to feel discouraged or inadequate - it’s just a fact of life, which keeps changing and throwing new challenges our way.

@placemarker

I should add to the wanking part, total repulsion and I don't know why. Maybe because masturbation seems like you have out-of-control sexual urges in this context, even if that's a batshit way of viewing it. I don't know, I don't understand it either

Is this how you saw these men, who abused and took advantage of you?

I’m wondering if you see something in your dh you saw in them if he masturbates. Did they do things in front of you? Or if you or your dh has reached the same age as one of them?

Masturbation is not about you, it’s about the other person.you are completely separate snd your dh chose to be with you despite your issues around sex and he’s staying with you despite your disability.

You seem to want to control everything in your life. I get that. You’re disabled and unable to work so are possibly overcompensating. I am the same as you, unable to work due to chronic illness / disability. I definitely think far more deeply than when I was younger and not disabled. Sex just happened. Was this the case with you? Sex just happened? I mean with your ex rather than those thugs. If this is case, it will possibly account for your feelings. A lot of things merging into one.

@placemarker

I should add to the wanking part, total repulsion and I don't know why. Maybe because masturbation seems like you have out-of-control sexual urges in this context, even if that's a batshit way of viewing it. I don't know, I don't understand it either

It's not batshit!

It's not an accurate way to think of normal masturbation, but that doesn't mean your view of it is batshit, you view of it is probably shaped by past experiences and your brain learns to cope with things by seeing them a certain way or by trying to protect you from certain things.
It's good to be able to acknowledge your thoughts and feelings on things like that because then you can try to move past them and see them differently.

You mention trying therapy....and seem frustrated that it was mentioned again but have you ever heard of EMDR?
Sometimes talk therapy doesn't suit people or it's not going to fix the issue because the trauma is stored in the body, rather than the mind.

EMDR is about processing trauma. The idea is that traumatic memories stay stuck in our minds because they aren't processed properly...but EMDR helps the brain to process the memories which makes them less painful and therefore allows people to move on from trauma.

One of the main ways that they do it is by getting you to think of traumatic memories..(or it can even be done on core beliefs) and then basically waving their finger in front of your face side to side and make you follow the finger with your eyes! That gets both sides of the brain working at the same time which helps it process information and memories so that they are not stuck anymore!

Now that sounds batshit lol
but people find it so effective!

Hi Op
I forget to mention that Hypnotherapy,could be beneficial for you too.
(As the intimacy issues you have are obviously deep rooted.
Hynotherarapy is beneficial in quite susprising wide varied ways ..

And as it works on subconsciously, on a deeper level.
(There are female Hypno therapist aswell for you if you feel more cormfortable/emotionally safer to have therapy...

Hi Op
Tantric sex would definitely be beneficial for you find out more about this internet.

Also looked at a book recently at oxfarm very good book shop in swansea
The name of the book Yoga and PSTD its about a particular practices of yoga that help in this way,
It sounded quite intriguing i have never before heard, about how certain yoga positions etc could help in this way..

I think essentially cause there so many different types of therapies/(theories behind them)out there,I think you need to find out which therapies possibly could be most effective for you out there.

I can honestly sympathise with you on this one. It’s so hard when past traumas affect so much in your life. I understand about the sex thing, it feels more like a chore, right?

Please, please try and get some therapy, I’ve had some (I was raped at 15 by someone older) and although I’m not cured I certainly feel like I can be more open and less ashamed. Hope your well

Hi OP,
Sending love your way 💐.

Sometimes reliving past traumas doesn't help, it keeps bringing the thoughts into the foreground instead of you looking into a positive, loving future. You say you have had endless therapy and it's not quite worked for you, and PPs just say 'go to therapy again'. It doesn't always help. My experience with therapy was very similar, I had explored everything in my past, but I didn't feel like me, I was repulsed by myself and it sent me done an even worse spiral. I decided the therapy wasn't helping and chose to love myself and improve small things, look to the future and everything positive around me.

Sounds like your husband genuinely cares for you and you adore him too. I'd start trying to concentrate on the positives and the physical / spiritual traits you find attractive in him.

Next the you have a meal together, take an extra moment to look at him, does he have kind eyes? Do you like the way he smiles at you? What about thinking positively about yourself?

Something I really recommend which really helped me was starting a self love diary. It was simple, I would right one thing I loved about myself in it each day. (At the start it was just things I didn't hate) and then when I started doubting myself I would just read back the previous couple of days and reflect, e.g "oh yeah, I am a good sister" , "I felt good when I had fresh nail varnish on".

Definitely give it a go.

All the best xx

Have a real honest talk with your husband because you can't carry on having sex if it feels this way, neither can or should you seek to limit him masturbating, regardless of how you feel about it. Could you agree to separate sunday nights or something where you watch something he won't like on TV and he does something else? Kind of a don't ask, don't tell policy.

I agree with the pp recommending sex therapy, also focus on all the things you can do to make yourself feel good, do you masturbate yourself? Maybe listen to some female made erotica or read something sexy.

You are worthy of being loved

I think you need specific therapy around sex as your views are skewed from your previous experiences which apart from perhaps one have not been positive. If you want to save your marriage I think it might be worth a try. Good luck.

Hi Op

Have you heard of the Joy of sex book?(it was the orginal ground breaking 1970s,Classic book of that era, as it refreshly focus/ Celebrates intimacy in its varied wide ranging ways in passionate way,etc.

It caused quite a stir,(talking point in the western world at that time as their had not been a sex book guide,quite like this in this manner before,(that had been so refreshly frank/Authentic about human sexuality and intimacy etc, it still is book that is even today, 40 +yrs , still quite highly influential.

(There is a recent,updated version of this classic ground breaking Joy of sex, by sex/relantship Therapist Authur Susan Quilliam
This version has been updated to reflect current times/attitudes,etc/concerns that modern reader,may have,for e.g such as intimacy/relantships issues that can help couple's to overcome these psychological barriers with intimacy/ and to create right kind of envoriment for intimacy in their relantship,and also update on new sexual practises.

Whilst this updated book still faithfully sticks to the original 1970s classic sex book aswell.

Its worth checking this book out on the internet to see what you think of this book for yourself, and as a couple.