Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

[VotNow]

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

Um, hate to disappoint you Greenland but casual sex is not “very niche”.

OP, there’s nothing wrong with your expectations. I had a FWB for 10 years on and off and we used to hang out and go for dinner. Never progressed into a relationship because neither of us wanted it. We both dated other people exclusively during that time and wouldn’t have sex while we were in relationships. A respectful friendship with added sex absolutely can be achieved.

This man does sound like an arsehole for disregarding your needs but I agree he wasn’t necessarily wrong in what he wanted - a have a female friend who, if she meets someone she wants to sleep with, will go home straight afterwards out of choice because she doesn’t want to give the illusion of any kind of affection or commitment.

@GreenlandTheMovie Weren’t you the one who said we shouldn’t shame and blame women for having sex with men?

And now you’re saying women who chose to have casual sex have mental health issues or a lack of shame or conscious?

Women are free to do what they wish and it doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with them. Saying that about women but not about men is blaming women.

He's a dick.
I had a fwb set up for a while. He was actually shit at sex. Never cared about my needs. He would nut then take me home. Always cum quick, never had any condoms. I paid for a room once and I never got any offer of any money, moaned all night about the bed. Dropped me home the next morning and ghosted me. I left it a week and called him out on his shit behaviour.
Stupidly a few months later I met up with him again. The sex was still shit. I said look I'm fed up of you texting me asking if I'm available, Getting what you want then not even texting after to see if I got home ok. His response was I just want to keep it as sex if that's ok. I stopped talking to him when I found out he was looking for other meets. That's fine he's single but not for me. He started messaging again 2 months later when he didn't get any off anyone else. He still messages from time to time. Some guys are pilloks

I also think this is just a case of mismatched expectations and needs.

He said jist sex and meant it.

The op said just sex and meant dinner, drinks, cuddles, snd over night stays.

I’m not sure I agree he treated her like shit because he didn’t give her this. I’d agree if he had said to her that’s what he wanted but he didn’t. He was literal, the op was not. She feels strongly it’s disrespectful to just want sex, and interpreted him saying just sex to mean he wanted a casual relationship.

I think if a man says just sex you kinda habe to assume that’s exactly what he means, unless you discuss and agree otherwise, he didn’t say a relationship with no commitment, he didn’t say dinner drinks, dates.

It’s a bit like no means no. He said it, he meant it, but for some reason the op felt that jist sex actually meant a casual relationship with dates.

@GreenlandTheMovie

It really isn't very niche, it's so much more common than you may like to appreciate.

I have to say, your analysis as to why modern women are comfortable with modern sex is harmful. You're suggesting there is something wrong with the woman, as normal women wouldn't dare do that. You are saying the woman who enjoys or wants sex is the issue, rather than societal expectations on how a woman should act. Women have needs, just like men. And women shouldn't be shamed for having those needs and seeing to them.

Many years ago I met someone, we clicked and had chemistry, but neither of us wanted a relationship. However, we had physical needs and so within a couple of months of meeting, we would meet very regularly, and then one of us would go home again. I don't have any MH disorders, previous abuse or a lack of shame or conscious. He gave me what I was looking for - sexual satisfaction and affection, and that way, I was happy staying single for a few more years rather than feeling the need to find someone because I missed that attention. It ended when we met other people. Our relationship was strictly sex - pop round, have sex, go home. It wasn't sleazy or disrespectful. But for you to suggest that people like me have issues, that is highly disrespectful.

No one is asking you make people feel good about their sex choices, but that doesn't give you the right to try and shame them either.

FWB indicates to me some affection, time spent together being friends

I agree, otherwise the word 'friends' would not be in there. What some people here are indicating is normal behaviour is certainly not how I would expect a friend to treat me. These situations are subjective by nature, each individual will go about it in different ways, yet people are trying to convince the OP that she is objectively in the wrong. Call me crazy but I believe the OP was entitled to gain some 'benefit' from the situation too, not just the guy. But apparently only his boundaries and desires are valid.

@GreenlandTheMovie

I've always wondered what the mindset of women is who keep the casual sex requirements of men like the OP describes fulfilled. Now I know.

It's like setting a really low common denominator and expecting everyone else to be happy with it.

Casual, NSA sex might be cool to some but I don't think it's generally considered that healthy mentally. Or at least, while there are of course exceptions, it often correlates with personality or MH disorders, disordered patterns of thinking, previous abuse, and such like. it correlates to a lack of responsiveness to social expectations and a lack of shame/conscience.

So, no, I'm not on here to make some posters feel good about their own very niche sex choices or follow their narrative that we should all think it's great. Some people clearly get a kick out of pushing boundaries and upsetting people.

I think some of the comments on here to an obviously upset OP are disgusting. Her reaction is far more well adjisted and healthy than the "wow what a great honest man" brigade. And he wasn't honest. He was fake as fake can be.

I liked casual sex. It suited me at the time. I’ve had both fwb as well as fb.

@IJustWantSomeBees

FWB indicates to me some affection, time spent together being friends

I agree, otherwise the word 'friends' would not be in there. What some people here are indicating is normal behaviour is certainly not how I would expect a friend to treat me. These situations are subjective by nature, each individual will go about it in different ways, yet people are trying to convince the OP that she is objectively in the wrong. Call me crazy but I believe the OP was entitled to gain some 'benefit' from the situation too, not just the guy. But apparently only his boundaries and desires are valid.

But it doesn’t matter what you think. The op says they agreed to be friends with benefits. Them she states he clearly told her he wanted sex and no more. There is no ambiguity about that.

The op didn’t want just sex. She wanted a casual relationship with date nights.

It doesn’t matter my definition of fwb, yours or anyone else. When a man looks you in the eye and says I only want sex, then believe him. Ask him if he wants a causal dating relationship if that’s what you want, but don’t just agree to just sex and then when he confirms that by his actions, of fucking uou and asking you to leave, decide he’s done you a wrong un by not providing the dates and casual relationship.

It’s like asking for a 99p burger in McDonald’s. Seeing what was included in that in the menu then doing your nut you didn’t get a Big Mac. Becayse you deserve it. And that’s really what you wanted.

Sounds to me like he has another person on the scene and your arrangement with him has coincided with this. Perhaps you came along first but in the meantime he has met someone who he feels he has more of a connection with?

All the women I know are in ltrs, many married, many without kids, or single and looking for a boyfriend. I do know a fair number of people, through work or two hobbies (which is why I was interested in which particular hobby this was). I have only one friend who admitted to being up for casual sexual encounters, but even she was only interested in that because she was between boyfriends.

Apart from those still of student age or maybe just starting out in work.

Through hobbies and work, I know quire a few single men and a few of them have a really bad reputation (in that other people have told me to avoid them because of how they behave:) for flitting from one casualsexual encounter to another. Some of them seem quite innocent and decent when you meet them but are in their thirties and forties with no long term partner. I'd be very wary of getting involved with them as I think they would do what the OP has described. And then of course there's the single men in their fifties and sixties, who are desperate for any female attention at all, and clog up your FB DMs with pointless and unnecessary "Hi, how are yous?", so you have to block the annoying old buggers.

And this is exactly what I am saying, you are personally defining the situation, despite trying to claim that you are not.

Think about your comment in regards to your own advice: it doesn't matter if you think what the OP wanted is a 'casual relationship with date nights', that is a subjective opinion and irrelevant to the OP. If our definitions don't matter then why are you categorically trying to inform the OP of what her wants/expectations are?

Yes, he made a clear statement about what he wanted, but so did she.

So why should the man's requirements be prioritised over the woman's? Why do certain posters think what the man wants trumps everything? It is pathetic.

He clearly led the OP on by faking greater interest in her than a few hook ups, otherwise she wouldn't have agreed. You would have to be extremely gullible or willfully blind to any faults to believe this specimen was an "honest man".

Oh, and that hard stare OP. It's a practised technique that certain men do. Most men are more reticent. It usually goes alongside a certain level of arrogance in believing that the normal societal rules don't apply to you.

I'm invested in this thread because I've successfully avoided a few men like that, who pop up when they get whiff of a single woman. Absolutely cannot stand men like that.

I think you have both communicated pretty well actually.

And in doing so have established you are not on the same page.

No one is a baddy in this and you definitely shouldn't accuse him of being one.

@VotNow ugh this guy sounds like a Prince.

Those ‘defending’ his ‘honesty’ need to give their heads a wobble as much as the ‘slut’ shamers.
A FWB arrangement doesn’t mean no respect or not being treated nicely is all you deserve or that there’s something wrong with you.

He clearly knew he needed to be nice and act like a decent human to win you over - that he stopped as soon as he got what his wanted shows he’s a shitty person, as a friend and a lover and no loss.

Sit on your hands.
If you can’t block him, hold out for the ‘hey, I was a dick, let me make it up to you text’ in a few weeks, tell him if he wants a hook up where he doesn’t have to make any effort and roll over to go to sleep on his own afterwards, to go fuck himself and THEN block.

Men like this should be the ones the morality police on this thread take exception to.

@GreenlandTheMovie I'm also following with interest!

I can't see anything that suggests the man's wants triumph over the woman's?

OP wanted sex and evening dates. The man wanted just sex. OP wanted more than the man. What OP wanted was more effort, what the man wanted was minimal effort. Therefore it was up to OP to accept the less effort, instead of expecting the man to make more effort when he said from day one he wanted less effort.

Using the same food analogy - OP wanted a three course meal cooked at home, the man wanted a microwave meal. What OP wants requires more time and effort than what the man was willing to give. Either OP needs to be ok with microwave meals, or have no meals with him at all, because the man was never planning to move up to cooked meals.

The same would apply if it was the other way round, in any context - you want a pay rise at work. You demand one, but don't get one. It's not up to work to compensate you in other ways. If you feel strongly about it, you leave your job or you just accept the situation.

OP accepted the situation, and is now upset with how the situation panned out.

When you're someone who demands more than the other person, you can't be surprised when you don't get it.

I also don't agree that he faked interest. I'm sure he was very interested in her, but his end goal was sex, nothing more. Men and women who want sex aren't always the type to fancy someone for a day and move on. It really depends on the context you know each other. At work or in a hobby, there probably will be more long term flirting but not necessarily after a relationship. In fact, many people are willing to have casual hook ups with people they already know than a stranger they meet on an app.

I'm also confused about your comments about "normal societal rules". It sounds to me you're applying double standards. You've actually put down women who want casual sex claiming there is something wrong with them, but then complain about a man's requirements being prioritised over the woman's. By pushing the narrative that women who have casual sex have issues, you yourself are prioritising men over women. It's as though you're saying, yeah some men sleep around, but women who do it are problematic.

The bottom line is if you want more than just sex don’t agree to just sex . Say what you want and if it’s not on offer, as it clearly wasn’t, then walk away,

There is nothing wrong with just wanting sex. This is not disrespectful as some folks seem to think, if it is openly stated at the start, the other party has the right to say yes or no.

What you can’t do is day yes. I also just want sex, then kick off you didn’t get dates too.

If he acted from the very beginning that he was after more, but wanted just sex and didn't communicate that to her, then I would honestly say he's a d*ck. That would be misleading someone as to your intentions.

However, he told her before they even had sex that he only wanted sex, so his intentions were always clear. She knew that's what he wanted. He could very well be arrogant and an unpleasant person, but he told her he only wants sex so she knew. She just hoped it would be sex with some wining and dining too.

TBH, OP reminds me of those people who say yes to a situation they're unhappy with, in the hope the other person will change their mind. She read a lot into his actions. I mean, she says: But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language. That hardly sounds like unique behaviour.

I think OP really liked him, and probably wanted a relationship, but when he said he wants just sex, she said yes, hoping that it would lead to more. I'm not blaming her for that, it's normal behaviour, and lots of women do it. But unfortunately it didn't work out the way she planned and she's now hurt. But that doesn't mean the guy has actually done anything wrong because his intentions were always clear.

But that's not exactly how it went Bluntness. There's a whole lot of nuance lost. The timeline is more:

He flirts and acts extremely interested for a couple of months. I think he's really got the hots for me. We arrange to meet up.

We meet up and at this point he says he just wants sex. I agree. There's all kinds of reasons why a committed relationship isn't feasible and I don't want one with him either. What I don't realise is that his "just sex" means literally you have to leave once I'm done. I knew he meant casual but still thought I would be spending the night. I'm shocked when he asks me to leave.

I tell him in no uncertain terms that I'm not happy with this arrangement and back off entirely. He instigates our next get together and his behaviour has improved noticeably to a level of respectfulness I'm happy with. It feels like he's trying.

We hook up once or twice more. I have been careful not to get too excited about him - I know that even if he behaves with the minimum amount of respect this is going nowhere.

We hook up a last time (after I have decided to really uninvest myself and have ignored a couple of his attempts to try to get me to go over late at night.) He reverts back to the way he was at first (which he knows I'm not happy with.) I complain. Again. He ends things.

Now. I'm absolutely fine with never seeing him again if this is how things are going to be. I don't want this - it isn't enjoyable for me. If other women would be fine with it then that is, of course, cool. It's up to them. But I don't like it.

To use your burger analogy, I kind of feel like expecting a burger was reasonable - we were going to the burger place. Instead what I got was a surprise dog shit in a bun.

Op, but that’s exactly what I said happened, other than the initial flirting

He told you just sex. You didn’t understand he meant just sex and thought it meant over nights too.

He told you this was jist sex. The issue is you felt jist sex came with other stuff and wasn’t literally just sex.

As I've said before, many times, if he'd have spelled out exactly how he wanted things to go, I would never have agreed to it.

The issue is we thought FWB meant different things.

Anyway, you'll all be pleased to hear I've surfed the urge to tell him he's a prick. It wasn't one of my best ideas, granted. Far healthier to post on Mumsnet to a chorus of, No, you're the prick!

@VotNow

That's the point - you thought FWB meant different things. Doesn't make him the bad guy here, and it doesn't make you wrong either. If anything, sounds like he tried to be respectful to you after you raised your concerns after the first time.

OP - he will almost definitely get back in touch, they always always do. Because this is not what you want, be strong and don't engage.

He sounds awful. Expecting you to leave within mins of sex. Who in there right mind would think that is an acceptable and respectful way to treat someone. Maybe if it was a sex worker and it was a financial transaction that was on the clock.
Block him. Some men are just revolting.

@VotNow

Anyway, you'll all be pleased to hear I've surfed the urge to tell him he's a prick. It wasn't one of my best ideas, granted. Far healthier to post on Mumsnet to a chorus of, No, you're the prick!

You sound great op- ignore all the bloody slut shamers on here I completely get what your expectations were and why you feel he acted like a prize prick. Ignore him if he messages, be breezy and polite if/when you see him.