Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

[VotNow]

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

And there is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone yiure having, or about to have sex with. It's how humankind functions. I find the constant guilt tripping of the OP for possibly having expected gulp perhaps a relationship to develop (although she says she did not) utterly ridiculous (because many many people would hope that) but also incredibly dispiriting.

Almost as if there's merit in proving yourself the toughest, the hardest - "look at me! I can have emotion-free sex, and leave straight away!" Posters are almost knocking each other over in their attempts to show how unemotional they are.

How utterly depressing. I honestly wouldn't want to turn into that sort of person. Again, I didn't grow up here, so it's possibly some stiff upper lip training that I've missed out on.

I don’t disbelieve that she felt disrespected. But if it was as bad as she’s implying - to the point she believes he is ‘fucked up’ and ‘terrified of closeness’, I would wonder why they wanted to go back.

One show of that would have been enough for me.

I certainly haven’t said he was right to make her feel disrespected but I do think that boundaries were not set. And because of that, OP has laid herself open to being hurt.

There has been a misunderstanding of sorts because a friend wouldn’t or shouldn’t treat someone like that if they thought a just sex was simply that.

I don’t know because I haven’t ever been in this situation. But if I ever wanted to be, I’d want to have it clear in my head what I could expect from it.

I feel heart sorry for the OP as she seems to be hurting and it could have been avoided if there had been a proper understanding.

No one knows that he kicked her out. If he did that is shameful. But there is a diffference between that and not wanting to spend the night with someone because of an early start or whatever.

And I can see even that would hurt if I were mistakenly expecting a cuddle in the afterglow for an hour or two or eggs in the morning.

Bluntness it's very hard to come to any conclusion other than that you're enjoying twisting the knife.

Your assumptions are way off the mark and have been consistently throughout the thread. I keep trying to explain how you've got things wrong but on you go. I don't desperately want to be with him and I never did.

No one knows that he kicked her out. If he did that is shameful. But there is a diffference between that and not wanting to spend the night with someone because of an early start or whatever.

Except the OP says she was treated disrespectfully and she knows as she was there. I don't know why some posters seem determined to dismiss her perception in favour of "no-one knows" or believing he explained himself adequately.

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Greenland. This man told her he just wanted sex, and yet you would have gone into it hoping for a relationship?

Way to get hurt and it would all be your own fault.

I’m old enough to have been round the block. I was divorced at 38 with young kids and I made a decision not to have anyone serious until they were adult.

But I still wanted a shag. Occasionally. And I found partners who were on the same page and it worked just fine. Fuck buddy (I only had one). Friend with benefits (the same one, on and off for 6 years).

My kids have only met two of the men I’ve dated in the 15 almost 16 years. One of those I dated for 3 years and the other is my current boyfriend.

So it’s not as if I’m walking loads of men through their lives.

I feel desperately sorry for the op because it is clear she feels used and is hurt but the man told her from the start what he was up for.

All she can do is learn from it and go into any other fuck buddy or fwb thing with her eyes open.

But it’s kidding yourself to think they might change their mind and want a relationship. That has disaster written all over it.

And I can see even that would hurt if I were mistakenly expecting a cuddle in the afterglow for an hour or two or eggs in the morning.

So Category12

As you will see, I said I could see how that would hurt or make me feel disrespected if I was expecting more.

You said the OP was there and said she felt disrespected. I’ve not disputed that.

But if someone made me feel disrespected ever after sex, they wouldn’t ever get the chance to do so again.

I haven’t said he has explained himself adequately either. Clearly both of them didn't or the OP wouldn’t feel so hurt.

Almost as if there's merit in proving yourself the toughest, the hardest - "look at me! I can have emotion-free sex, and leave straight away!" Posters are almost knocking each other over in their attempts to show how unemotional they are.

I think you're really onto something with that comment, Greenland. It's like women now feel the need to demonstrate how cool and worthy they are by having the type of sex and relationships men would more traditionally want.

"I don't care, me. I just fuck and go. Smash and dash! Other women need to just get with the programme. What did you say? You'd at least like a text asking if you got home safely?? Ew how pathetic. How neeeeedy. The boys aren't going to like you, you know."

I'm not convinced. I think the patriarchy has always done a good job of convincing women they ought to love their own degradation. 1950's housewifery was sold to us as the dream and we finally managed to break out of that. Now prostitution, pornography, and sex with men who can't even be bothered with the basic niceties is being sold as empowering.

No. I don't reckon.

And there is nothing wrong with developing feelings for someone yiure having, or about to have sex with

On this I would agree with you. And have urged the op to be honest about what she wanted here, but she is Adamant she didn’t wish a relationship or have these sort of feelings, so it’s hard to decipher this. Her words v her actions are totally disconnected.

Op, ok, I do hear what you’re saying, I also hear you saying you wanted dinner drinks over night stays etc, and how you craved to be with him and how you liked him, or you could not have had sex. As said it’s all very conflicting.

No one here knows you and the one single thing I actually agree with Greenland on is there is no shame in having feelings for someone, for wanting to have a special connection, a relationship with them, it’s totally normal.

@GreenlandTheMovie

Almost as if there's merit in proving yourself the toughest, the hardest - "look at me! I can have emotion-free sex, and leave straight away!" Posters are almost knocking each other over in their attempts to show how unemotional they are

No one is doing that. No one who has casual sex is competing with each other to act “cool” or “unemotional”. People are giving OP a different perspective. You are the only one claiming people here are doing that

And for you, someone who has had one night stands, to say we’re going out of our way to show how unemotional we are. What on earth is wrong with you?

Or are we actually men here to stir the pot, as you suggested?

And anything you say can’t be taken seriously. You were the one who said women who have casual sex have low standards, mental issues, have been abused or have no morals.

And I will keep calling you out on that whilst you constantly push your narrative through that belittles women who choose to have casual sex.

I'm not convinced. I think the patriarchy has always done a good job of convincing women they ought to love their own degradation. 1950's housewifery was sold to us as the dream and we finally managed to break out of that. Now prostitution, pornography, and sex with men who can't even be bothered with the basic niceties is being sold as empowering

Ok, but I mean this gently, you’re the one being treated disrespectfully not us. So you can’t listen to us telling you to exert your boundaries immediately or you can lash out and attack us and insinuate we are all running round shagging random blokes as soon as they ask. In a bid to be “popular” or “ cool” . It’s your call.

And wanting to feel connected is the most natural thing in the world. Some may want that in a physical sense - some may need it to be more.

No one wants anyone to feel hurt, be full of regrets or feel disrespected.

@Bluntness100

I suspect she liked him too. And there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, that’s how me and DH got together. We were colleagues who became friends who became FWB. He made it clear that he wanted things to stay at that level but I really liked him and was ok with that whilst secretly hoping he would start liking me. Luckily he did and we’re now married with a baby on the way.

It’s because I did it myself that I recognise it in OP. She clearly liked him, that’s why she’s now hurt.

I should add that my story is the exception, not the norm...but I know how women can kid themselves into thinking they’re ok with less rather than nothing.

Ok, but I mean this gently, you’re the one being treated disrespectfully not us.

Bluntness you have insisted throughout the thread that I haven't been treated disrespectfully. That's been your whole shebang!

It's really disconcerting to read posters urging the OP to basically be more callous, to mirror a man whose described behaviour ticks many of the checklist points for a psychopathic approach to his sex life which are associated with those listed in DSM V. Bad becomes good, right becomes wrong.

We know that some humans copy poor behavioural control patterns when urged to do so by others or when there is an incentive (eg popularity, "fitting in") or even just a lack of retribution. That doesnt mean its right.

Posters are basically urging the OP (who seems a healthily adjusted individual) to suppress her normal human instincts to even slightly bond, or become emotionally attached even very slightly, to those she has sex with. Just so men like this can enjoy themselves and do what they want. That is farcical. Of you haven't experienced this type of behaviour before, of course a well adjusted social individual is going to be upset by it.

The OP really doesnt need to copy this man's approach to sex, no-one does. It's so far outwith the norms of healthy sexual relationships. Most people would stick up for a waiter or neighbour who was spoken to disrespectfully, why on earth should it be different for people who have sex?

This is a man who is very good at wearing a mask to get what he wants. I suspect he is the sort who comes across duferentky to many people. As doom as he gets sex, the act drops, but he wouldn't get sex if his act of promising something even slightly more than callous disregard wasn't convincing enough.

Bluntness your posts on here often make me uncomfortable because they are do deliberately cruel and designed to make posters feel worse, not better. You dig away and exaggerate points of weakness to make posters feel bad. It's awful to read. You just don't know when to stop. It's almost as if you're getting pleasure out of it. Bluntness is fine, cruelty is not. And no, you and done others really don't like me pointing this out.

Oh dear. Even agreeing with Greenland doesn’t stop her going on the attack. Have you mixed me up with someone else again? Sigh. What part of exert your boundaries from the start and don’t agree to just sex if you want more is me encouraging her to suppress her normal human feelings?

OP I hear you. He acted badly. You have a right to feel bruised. Stop replying to this thread - it isn’t helping anymore. I hope tomorrow goes well. Hold your head high - you’ll be fine.

I am sorry but I don't get this...

If a man makes it very clear to you that he is only interested in sex and pretty much kicks you out as soon as you have done it, why would you expect more?

You gave him permission to behave in this way...

Next time simply tells a man to get lost from the start and stick to guys who see you as relationship material not just as casual/sex object type thing.

That's why these FWB arrangements are nonsense. Most men in this case could not care less about your friendship, they just want the benefits...for them it sounds less callous than 'casual sex' and they get a hook-up on tap rather than having to find a new willing woman every time they fancy sex,

Frankly I think we women need to have a good look as to why we are letting guys get away with this...

Oh dear Bluntness, I'm just far too exierienced to fall for that sort of thing.

*experienced. On my phone...

I wasn’t trying to prove I was a man or cool or anything. I just wanted no stings sex. I like sex. I missed it. But I did not want a relationship at the time.

Poor OP. People are projecting wildly on this thread.

He sounds like a wanker - and of course you are better off without him. He sounds shite in bed, too, if that last time he just came quickly and essentially said 'That's me done, then.' It's disrespectful and rude.

Don't bother calling him out. Just be glad you don't need to have sex with him again!

*Strings

The op doesn’t have to do anything she isn’t comfortable with. She doesn’t have to copy the man with his preference for no strings.

She can do whatever she likes sex wise. That’s up to her.

She went back and tried to negotiate a different level of engagement than this man was comfortable with and had said he wanted. He did not want the same as she did therefore they aren’t compatible. Simple enough.

Bluntness your posts on here often make me uncomfortable because they are do deliberately cruel and designed to make posters feel worse, not better. You dig away and exaggerate points of weakness to make posters feel bad. It's awful to read. You just don't know when to stop. It's almost as if you're getting pleasure out of it. Bluntness is fine, cruelty is not. And no, you and done others really don't like me pointing this out.

I think you do this too, Bluntness. You seem so so keen to portray me as pining and desperate, holding onto this man's ankles as he furiously tries to shake me off.

You talk of me being ghosted (this never happened - he ignored some messages from me, I ignored some messages from him - he was the last one who had tried to arrange a meet up and overall had initiated meet ups probably more than I did.) You talk of him having to reiterate that we were calling things a day when he walked me home because you assume he sensed I desperately wanted to be with him. In actual fact I had already very much accepted it wasn't happening and in that moment I experienced him as being the one unsure. It was a question. He knew full well we'd already discussed it and I'd heard him loud and clear. He (I believe) was beginning to wobble at having cut things off so finitely. I don't "really really really" like him and I don't desperately want a relationship with him - the very descriptive language you use to describe emotions I've told you I don't feel smacks of some sort of projection.

You're just a wind up who enjoys digging their fingers in other peoples bruises.