Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

[VotNow]

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

Secondly, wanting dinner, drinks, over night stays, and cuddles every couple of weeks is in fact a relationship. I don’t understand how you perceive it not to be.

It could be a friends with benefits type relationship tho, rather than a relationship relationship. I don't understand why so many people are throwing out the friends part of what OP hoped to get with this man.

The shag and go situation doesn't have the friendship part.
Friendship entails having a laugh together, occasionally spending time, chit-chat. If I agreed a FWB situation I would expect friendship to play a part in it.

@category12

Secondly, wanting dinner, drinks, over night stays, and cuddles every couple of weeks is in fact a relationship. I don’t understand how you perceive it not to be.

It could be a friends with benefits type relationship tho, rather than a relationship relationship. I don't understand why so many people are throwing out the friends part of what OP hoped to get with this man.

The shag and go situation doesn't have the friendship part.
Friendship entails having a laugh together, occasionally spending time, chit-chat. If I agreed a FWB situation I would expect friendship to play a part in it.

The man said from the start it was just sex though?

She said they agreed to be FWB as well as the just sex part. So either he dialled it back in the event, in which case she's not wrong to be disappointed, or he was interpreting FWB quite differently, which isn't her fault either.

Clearly there was a mismatch in their expectations, but she's had quite a hammering for it, and I'm not sure it's fair.

Can’t help but think people’s prejudice towards men and sex are affecting their views here. If it was OP who said she just wants sex and the man wanted more, I wonder if people would start accusing the man of not respecting OP’s wishes, being OTT, etc etc. I believe they would.

I guess ultimately OP expected wine, dinner and cuddles before and after sex, and he wanted just sex. He said that, OP said she wants more. The man even tried to be respectful and give her that but it wasn’t for him. Why is it ok for her to get what she wants, but he’s demonised for wanting something else? It didn’t work out, and now OP feels disrespected and used.

Any chance he's autistic?

Ugh I promised myself I wouldn't post on this thread again as I felt it was upsetting me more than it was helping but I feel I must address your post MsHedgehog.

First of all, you can't be prejudiced against sex, unless you've never had it - people base their opinions on sex and relationships precisely on their experience. Ditto men most of the time but let's no go there - that's another thread.

Secondly: If it was OP who said she just wants sex and the man wanted more, I wonder if people would start accusing the man of not respecting OP’s wishes. The man even tried to be respectful and give her that but it wasn’t for him.

It is him that did not respect my wishes. After our first hook up I told him plainly what I had found unacceptable and told him I would not sleep with him again if that was how it was going to be. And he showed he understood by trying to improve. He then slept with me again a last time and did exactly what he knew I found unnacceptable. Why? He could have told me: "Sorry Vot, treating you with a minimum of respect is proving too much for me and what I really want to do is fuck you, then treat you like a bit of dog shit I found on my shoe and must flick into the bushes. You down?" I would have said No. I am not down. Indeed if he had told me from the beginning exactly what he expected I would not have been down.

We were two equals going into this. Both of our wants and needs were equally important.

I have absolutely respected his wishes. He has said he wants to call it a day and I have left him alone completely. If he returns wanting more it will be a clear no from me - he has made plain the kind of sex life he wants and I don't want to be involved in it. Yes I started a thread on Mumsnet about calling him out in the heat of a moment, but deep down I knew it was ridiculous and that I wouldn't - I just wanted the catharsis of being able to discuss it anonymously with a bigger pool of people than just my friends.

I will be seeing him tomorrow. I am not looking forward to it. I'm still furious but I do understand that my emotions are my own to deal with. My plan is to be polite, unconcerned, friendly enough, but to focus my energy on having a good time with others.

He's not autistic.

He was using you. He’s not your friend. He just wanted a shag. You’re coming across as a bit needy. Just block and move on. Why are you seeing him tomorrow? If you have to see him just ignore him.

Oh come on @VotNow

What he wouldn’t have said was about not treating you with respect. That’s what you perceive as treating you with respect.

He told you what he wanted. You tried it, it don’t work for you, so told him what you wanted.

He tried to do what you wanted and it didn’t work for him.

End of.

I’m guessing I treated my fuck buddy with a minimum of respect and like a piece of dog shit I found on my shoe and must flick into the bushes? Nope. I didn’t. It was sex and only sex.

You are definitely emotionally too attached to this man for a fuck buddy fwb thing ever to work. You’ve invested emotionally and that is the downfall of most fwb fuck buddy things.

My plan is to be polite, unconcerned, friendly enough, but to focus my energy on having a good time with others

I think this is a good plan, and if you’re still so upset you think you can’t manage it, maybe best to give it a miss for once. As otherwise it may cause you more emotional harm than good.

Because He is simply not emotionally involved here, it was literally just sex for him, he thought just a willing shag on both sides, but you both made a mistake, he should not have tried to give you more when he wasn’t remotely interested, and you should not have went back after the first time when you knew it was just sex and he had no interest in you past that.

I hope with time you come to terms with it and hopefully can calm down soon. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you. However if you can’t manage seeing him so soon without upsetting yourself further, then it’s best to give yourself time, as he will not be having the same reaction.

Crikey you've had a drubbing here from both sides-the purity brigade and the sex as a mechanical act brigade.
Honestly, it's FINE to feel fucked off that he treated you unlikely, which he absolutely did by the sounds of it. Who chucks someone out after sex by saying right, it's time for you to go?!?! A knobhead, is who.

You dealt with the situation admirably. Keep on keeping your head held high and allow yourself to feel hurt for a bit. And then get out there, girl.

treated you kindly, not unlikely.

Oh ffs. You know what I meant!

I think it’s clear he had one date night with you and it didn’t work for him, so he started ghosting you and ignoring your texts. It was cowardly but he was making it clear he didn’t wish to repeat that.

When you then bumped into him and then went home to his for sex, he clearly misunderstood and thought you just wanted sex, it wasn’t a planned date, so when you decided you wanted to spend the night and told him your expectations he made it very clear this time he didn’t wish this with you, and walked you home.

You have both made a mistake here. You’ve both misjudged the other hugely, if you can’t see him without it causing you more mental distress I think for once it would be more healthy for you to be able to give your hobby a miss dor one day, as ultimately you need to protect your mental health.

I don't think either did anything wrong, he made it clear it was sex, not sex plus cuddles, food, staying over, just sex. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as it suits both partners.
He hasn't been a dick, he's just been clear this is nothing more than sex. If he'd have been doing all of that and then the OP had caught feelings, people would be saying it's his fault for leading her on with more relationship type behaviours.
I think the expectations were different on both sides

I had a situation like this.. a bit different as he didn’t tell me he just wanted sex till I told him I wanted more months after we’d already been ‘dating’ met through work couldn’t get enough of me wanted to go on dates etc was really nice to me.. then we started having sex. I told him how I felt and he basically said it’s just sex on his part and he never wanted more as I already had feelings at this point I stupidly stayed in the situation for over a year.. it became very disrespectful he would leave after sex sometimes or if he stayed here the next day he wouldn’t talk for hours in the morning.. no cuddles or anything in bed.. we hardly even spoke about anything other than sex he started being rude to me and everything was on his terms.. also like you said texting late at night wanting to come over etc

Refused to take me on any dates or even come out to eat with me just causally for Lunch etc if he was here the next day.

And this was all someone who was obsessed with me at the start and who I rejected a few times before giving chance.

What I will say is like others have said when horny he will be back so it maybe a good idea to block him .. mine did not let me end things easily he even turned up at mine before . He could not handle me saying no to sex with him. It was a hard habit to break as I knew he was disrespectful and using me but I kept thinking about how he was when we first met

He wasn't ghosting me, Bluntness. He was the last person to have messaged trying to see me. I had ignored him.

Lalliella "You're coming across as a bit needy." Expecting to be treated with respect is a basic requirement of any human interaction. I find it almost unbelievable that men have managed to persuade women that expecting anything more than popping round, spreading their legs, letting them do their thing, and then leaving without a word is "needy." And that "needy" is the most shameful thing a woman can be.

If that's what you honestly think then a massive number has been done on you.

I can't skip tomorrow, I'd be letting others down. My mental health is fine, Bluntness. This particular situation has upset and angered me but I'm generally content enough with lots of good and meaningful things/relationships in my life.

I think ignoring your texts is as close to ghosting as it gets, and the late night booty call doesn’t really change it to be honest. The message was clear.

I’m glad your mental health is ok and you can cope with seeing him without it causing further distress. Good luck and I hope it goes smoothly for you💐

But he did respect your wishes. You said you want more and he gave you more, even though it’s not what he wanted. After a while, he stopped because he was only doing that for you. He didn’t want that, and never wanted that. Why is it only your wishes that need to be respected here?

He told you before the very first time he wanted only sex. You thought he meant something else, but he was clear. He didn’t trick you into bed.

Your expectations were very very different, that is all. Doesn’t mean he’s an arse. You wanted evening dates, he wanted just sex...neither is wrong, you simply weren’t matched.

I also didn’t realise he walked you home after the last time...that’s definitely not the sign of someone treating you disrespectfully after sex.

Please tell us exactly what he said and did, because everything you have said so far doesn’t actually go into any detail about what he said and did. For example, did he really treat you like dog shite after sex and kick you out of bed and his home the second he came, or just not give you the cuddles you wanted and his suggestion you leave wasn’t actually within seconds of him finishing?

No one is saying that you don’t deserve respect, no one is saying he should treat you shite...but even when it comes to sex it sounds like you wanted more intimacy and affection and he didn’t. Again, nothing wrong with either side, it’s just very different expectations, but not a sign of disrespect.

If you view it that way, you will allow yourself to be very upset and hurt about it, as you clearly have done and are feeling now. No one wants you to feel that way, hence why so many people are trying to get you to see things differently...for your own benefit. You don’t have to agree with them, but understand it’s not so black and white and therefore it was a misunderstanding rather than anything disrespectful.

Lalliella "You're coming across as a bit needy." Expecting to be treated with respect is a basic requirement of any human interaction. I find it almost unbelievable that men have managed to persuade women that expecting anything more than popping round, spreading their legs, letting them do their thing, and then leaving without a word is "needy." And that "needy" is the most shameful thing a woman can be.

If that's what you honestly think then a massive number has been done on you.

Well said! I agree with you OP

I'm not going to post exactly what he said and did in a perfect timeline MsHedgehog, just so that posters can pick over the bones and tell me I have no right to feel the way I feel because everything he did and said was perfectly fine.

So he ate a live puppy in front of you and spat out the bones. Did he claim to be a vegetarian?! Well, did he? Did you explicitly let him know you found puppy eating unacceptable??? Well then, you've only yourself to blame. You're too sensitive - which by the way is extremely unnattractive.

I'm entitled to my own lines in the sand. And I'm entitled to my own feelings.

Then it’s hard to agree that you’ve been disrespected based on what you’ve said so far.

And I don’t mean to be harsh...I just don’t want you to feel used and abused. That’s a horrible horrible feeling - I’ve been there, and it makes you feel like shite. You question what he did, what you did, whether there’s something wrong with you, you question your own judgment. It’s not a good place to be. It would be so much better for your healing to see it as different expectations than being used and abused.

I really really hope you find peace after this. Please don’t let this interaction with him affect your confidence going forward. That would be the worst outcome from this. This guy clearly liked you...but he wanted something else, that’s all.

Look after yourself xx

I think hedgehog was trying to help and understand why you felt you were treated like shite.

It wasn't necessarily for picking over OP. Just to understand why you thought you weren’t being respected.

There is a world of difference between ‘can we call it a night now please as I’ve to get up early’ and ‘when are you leaving ’ or even ‘see yourself out, I’m knackered’

Any of those could be classed as cold and dismissive if you wanted to lie and cuddle or chat or whatever.

I can’t see him being as horrid as ‘that’s me done so off ye fuck right now’ or similar because you wouldn’t have gone back for more. And rightly so.

You are entitled to your feelings and lines in the sand. But so is he.

And the time to discuss what ‘just sex’ entails was before. It would have saved you this unhappiness.

I’m sorry you are hurting. It is awful when you thought it was something more than it was.

I’d have to agree, it’s hard to tell what actually happened, not least becayse you refuse to say, but the fact you refuse on the basis that you think you’ll be told it wasn’t disrespectful speaks volumes Ie deep down you know it wasn’t. I think if it was clearly disrespectful you’d have said it loud and clear to support what you’re saying.

I mean if you both laid in bed for half an hour chatting then he said, right I better walk you home, I’m up early in the morning, this is fine.

If he rolled off you and immediately said thanks mate, I want you to fuck off now. It’s awful.

But the fact he walked you home indicates that the simple fact he didn’t wish you to spend the night is what’s upset you initially, because you desperately wanted to, and were fully intent on doing so, so he had to basically ask you to leave.

then when he had to explain he didn’t have that connection nor wish it and so wished to end it, was devastating. He even had to say it a second time when he had got to your home.

It is very hard to come to any other conclusion than you really really really liked him and desperately wanted to be with him and as soon as he said just sex that first time you should have said “nah mate, I’m looking for casual fun relationship, so it’s just you and your hand tonight, if you ever fancy a date and maybe a sleep over and some fun, if you’re lucky, let me know “ and walked off laughing. Basically setting that boundary immediately in a light hearted way. Becayse that was your boundary. And you should never have pretended it wasn’t.

So the OP has consistently said she has felt disrespected and treated badly by this man, yet a number of posters disbelieve her. The OP quite reasonably doesn't want to go into detail as to exactly why he said/did.

Yet the same posters automatically believe without question that the man involved has behaved well, and tie themselves in knots to justify his behaviour, and to "prove" the man wrong. I find that really old fashioned and sexist, sort of as if you must be grateful for a man showing attention to you. I didn't grow up in Britain or go to university here, so it might be that my views are different because of this and its normal behaviour here.

Personally, I don't think anyone should behave in a way so as to make someone feel disrespected after having sex and wishing they hadn't got involved. I think male behaviour has got worse in recent years, perhaps due to easier supply of itinerant sexual partners via online dating. I'm shocked that so many posters must have been treated in such a way to think there's nothing unusual about this man's behaviour.

True, it's not illegal, but it's a type of behaviour which can, in some individuals, progress. It does flag up checklist points for certain disorders which are recognised in DSM V.

Bluntness" I believe I confused you with "Ironing because your viewpoint on this was so similar. You say that you have been married for the last 30 years - do you really understand what men are like now and how skilled some of them are at projecting a" perfect man" image to women to get them to have sex? How much more acceptable its become for men not to get married or have ltrs with one woman? It's a level of effort and then total discard that I'm not sure existed quite so much before.

Women are increasingly seen as disposable playthings to be used and then discarded. I won't even do Internet dating because in 3 weeks, I had 8 different men, whom I had never met, try to invite themselves round to have sex with me or turn the chat explicit within a few messages. And not one single decent man who could make normal conversation. My profile photo is simply a former professional head shot.

Even in general life, men are so ready to be abusive online to women - in my hobby whatsapp group, 2 men have been banned this week for swearing and being abusive to women asking innocent questions. It seems quite a lot of men think it's just fine to be disrespectful towards women and even enjoy it. I didn't even know this sort of behaviour existed until I went on OLD (and left quickly afterwards). At least I thought it was easy to avoid the players.

I can totally understand how the OP, meeting a man through their shared hobby, would be surprised at being treated like this. I'm one of the ones who would have gone into this with an open mind of whether a relationship would have developed or not, because so many men now say they are not looking for a relationship, and you have to remain hopeful, and because of the 2 months flirting at the shared hobby. I would be fuming if someone had been disrespectful then kicked me out, because thats where my boundaries lie and there's no excuse for it.

The man here hasn't come to any harm, so gif knows why so many posters are rushing to defend him.