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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

478 replies

VotNow · 02/12/2020 22:10

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

OP posts:
NotPrude · 04/12/2020 13:06

@VotNow

But that’s the issue. It’s not that he was rude to you. He had one understanding and expectation, and you had another. That’s all it was. You’re unhappy that he expected you to leave after sex and didn’t respond to your messages...that was what he meant by just sex. You meant something else. It was a lack of communication, not a lack of respect.

pictish · 04/12/2020 13:06

It is. Ignore the naysayers...they’re being contrary for the sake of it.

VotNow · 04/12/2020 13:07

He was cold, rude, and dismissive NotPrude. Both with his words and his body language. I know that I would not treat anyone like that. Certainly, if I felt like that towards someone I would not be having sex with them! Because why would I want to?

OP posts:
pictish · 04/12/2020 13:07

No...it was definitely a lack of respect...and manners...and a basic level of emotional intelligence.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 13:09

You thought it was a given. But he didn’t.

I’ve had fuck buddies and friends with benefits. They’re very different.

My fuck buddy was literally that. Are you free can we shag. Yes or no. Go. Shag. Go home.

Friend with benefits was a take away, sex, cuddles and home the next morning.

Causal dating was dinner, or cinema type activity, sex, cuddle, home the next day.

I loved my fuck buddy experiences. They were great. I got to go and have sex with none of the fluff I couldn’t be bothered with. I wasn’t looking for any kind of relationship, but I still wanted sex.

Me and my friend with benefits are still vaguely in touch now, he’s married and I have a boyfriend and I still think fondly of him. We don’t shag but it has developed into more of an arms length friendship.

I made a conscious decision when I divorced not to have wnother man in my life until my kids were grown because I didn’t think it was fair on them. (I am aware others may feel differently). But I still wanted sex sometimes. No one got hurt and both parties consented. I don’t see how I did anything wrong bit apparently I did to some on here.

As I said, learn from it be clear what you want in future. No harm done.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 13:10

@pictish

It is. Ignore the naysayers...they’re being contrary for the sake of it.
Pictish I’m not.

I had a fuck buddy. All I did was fuck him. We barely spoke. I never stayed over. It was “shag?” “Be there in 10”. Do the deed. Home after to my own bed.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 13:11

You can be physically attracted to someone and not want any more than sex from them you know.

NotPrude · 04/12/2020 13:13

@VotNow

Except you then went back several times.

OP, I’m not saying you’re the problem. You both had different expectations in what you were looking for, that’s all. But that doesn’t mean that he’s automatically the bad guy. You liked him more than you admit, you guys didn’t communicate properly, and now you’re left feeling used and abused and going over everything in your head. It wasn’t a pleasant experience for you and that’s fine...but I think you need to look at what actually went wrong rather than blaming him straight away.

VotNow · 04/12/2020 13:16

So what does that look like to you?

That's a good question. At a bare minimum it looks like expending some effort on maing sure I also enjoy myself (which to be fair he usually did - it was only our last time together that was bad in that respect.)

It looks like taking some time afterwards to "come down". Bit of small talk, maybe a drink and a fag together, a feeling of having enjoyed eachother at least.

It looks like establishing beforehand that he has an early morning wake up or likes his own space or whatever, so that I understand I will be leaving, rather than having it 'sprung' on me.

I think if he'd have done these things then it may still not have worked out as I may still have ended up deciding I wanted more, as in sleepovers and dinner together, but I would not have felt used and furious as I do now.

OP posts:
TheLadyOfShallnott · 04/12/2020 13:17

I think bluntness has said it better than I will.

If he was cold, rude and dismissive then he wouldn’t have seen me a second time because despite promises of better behaviour in the future, I would have known that it was how he viewed me/the situation deep down.

You can’t control how someone acts towards you but you can change how you react to them. A second (or more) situation would not have happened if I’d felt disrespected. (Though I have never been in this situation so I am speaking generally)

His expectations were different to yours and it is a pity it wasn’t made clear beforehand.

TheLadyOfShallnott · 04/12/2020 13:18

Sorry. Cross post OP.

VotNow · 04/12/2020 13:19

I don't think you did anything wrong Ironceiling. The important thing was that you were happy.

OP posts:
wimhoffbreather · 04/12/2020 13:19

@VotNow

He was cold, rude, and dismissive NotPrude. Both with his words and his body language. I know that I would not treat anyone like that. Certainly, if I felt like that towards someone I would not be having sex with them! Because why would I want to?
I think it comes back down to mismatched expectations. You wouldn’t treat anyone that way, but is it so unbelievable that there are people out there who are not as nice or respectful as you are?

He’s a jerk granted, and I think you thought you guys had a special bond because of the flirting and staring, but it sounds like he just thought you were really hot and wanted to have sex - it’s weird that he didn’t want to hang out at all, but hey, some people are weird af.

He’s an arse, that is for sure. Take it as a lesson that some men are absolute pricks, not worth your energy or emotion once you’ve gotten to grips with who they really are

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 13:19

It looks like establishing beforehand that he has an early morning wake up or likes his own space or whatever, so that I understand I will be leaving

You just need to communicate that in future.

NotPrude · 04/12/2020 13:21

@pictish

What @Ironingontheceiling said. People are allowed to have different views you know rather than being contrary for the sake of it...

I’ve also had a FB relationship and a FWB relationship. FWB was someone I knew for a while but the FB was very similar to OP...we met, had a lot in common, clicked and then once it escalated, we both wanted just sex. We were both clear - just sex. That meant no dates, no time together, just pop round, have sex, go home.

At the time, it was what I needed. Had come out of a long term relationship so this guy gave me the attention I needed, but I didn’t need to waste my time and energy with dating and spending time together. It is possible to have just sex with someone without the romance too.

We communicated and were clear. OP and the man communicated, but they wanted different things. That’s all. Doesn’t mean there was disrespect. In fact, after OP made it clear the first time, the man tried to meet her expectations but it clearly wasn’t for him. What he wanted wasn’t for OP either so it’s over, end of.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 13:25

@VotNow

I don't think you did anything wrong Ironceiling. The important thing was that you were happy.
I didn’t mean you @VotNow
VotNow · 04/12/2020 13:39

To be honest I wish to god I'd never slept with him. The flirting was so fun - he was all happy and twinkly eyed and attentive; I felt desirable and confident and excited. It's been a disaster. Wish there was a rewind button.

But hey ho. You live and learn. Except what do we learn? All I ever seem to learn is that I can't trust myself or others; that my perception of how other people feel about me is way off, and that assuming others will treat me with even basic consideration is a folly.

I think I'm pre-menstrual.

OP posts:
NotPrude · 04/12/2020 13:44

@VotNow

You’re overthinking again. You were desirable to him. He wanted you. If you were just another notch on his bed post, he wouldn’t have spent 2 months pursuing you. The attraction and chemistry was almost certainly real between the two of you...you just wanted different outcomes, that’s all it was.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 13:54

[quote NotPrude]@VotNow

You’re overthinking again. You were desirable to him. He wanted you. If you were just another notch on his bed post, he wouldn’t have spent 2 months pursuing you. The attraction and chemistry was almost certainly real between the two of you...you just wanted different outcomes, that’s all it was.[/quote]
This. He was attracted to you. You just wanted different things.

pictish · 04/12/2020 14:23

He wanted her...but not enough to offer her a cup of tea.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 14:26

@pictish

He wanted her...but not enough to offer her a cup of tea.
You don’t get a cup of tea if it’s a fuck buddy situation. I never did. It’s just sex. Literally just sex. There’s none of the fluffy stuff. It is literally just a shag.
VotNow · 04/12/2020 14:38

And there lies another fundamental difference between him and me, I think. I cannot be strongly physically attracted to someone without a degree of attachment/craving their company.

I mean I could just shag someone and leave. But it would have to be someone I didn't fancy very much. In which case there would be no real motivation to shag them.

OP posts:
Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 14:40

@VotNow

And there lies another fundamental difference between him and me, I think. I cannot be strongly physically attracted to someone without a degree of attachment/craving their company.

I mean I could just shag someone and leave. But it would have to be someone I didn't fancy very much. In which case there would be no real motivation to shag them.

But people can. I can. I don’t think I’m alone in that.

It’s interesting that you use the word crave. That’s quite intense, especially so for a fuck buddy.

Bluntness100 · 04/12/2020 15:43

@VotNow

And there lies another fundamental difference between him and me, I think. I cannot be strongly physically attracted to someone without a degree of attachment/craving their company.

I mean I could just shag someone and leave. But it would have to be someone I didn't fancy very much. In which case there would be no real motivation to shag them.

And that’s fine, but many people can have sex with someone they fancy and not want the emotional closeness with it. Which is fine too and neither is abnormal. Neither is wrong.

Agree with ironing, crave is a strong word, and links back to what you originally said about what you wanted.

I think the fundamental issue here is you liked him much more than you were letting on snd wished a relationship with him, and the fact he’d paid you so much attention made you think irrelevant of his words he wished this too, so you’re understandably devastated he didn’t feel the same way. Bottom line agreeing with just sex was a mistake. Because you wanted a relationship. Offering up sex is never a way to secure a relationship.

CornwallCorn · 04/12/2020 15:44

What is missing from this guy is the F in the FWB. He’s not behaved like a friend in any sense of the word.

He behaved like he did because he wanted sex. When he got it, he didn’t know what to do next, either because he’s a massive emotional fuckwit (Bridget Jones) or because he’s just not that into you (He’s Just Not- you know the rest!).

Either way he’s waved plenty of red flags that show he’s a waste of time. Don’t feel bad about anything, being so rude is his issue not yours, and you can’t undo what has already happened anyway. Onwards and upwards, you’ll find someone more deserving, and eventually he’ll be someone else’s shitty problem Wine