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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Calling out this man for his shitty behaviour is a terrible idea isn't it.

478 replies

VotNow · 02/12/2020 22:10

Casual relationship. We agreed to be FWB. This was preceded by a couple of months heavy flirting during which he gave every impression of being very attracted to me. He even told someone else he fancied me (who then told me.) All the body language, the catching him watching me when he thought I wasn't looking, the finding excuses to be around me and stand close to me, the playful flirty joking around.

He said he only wanted sex from the start. Fine. I wanted sex with him too. But he was a dreadful FWB. The first time we hooked up he basically told me it was time for me to go after we were finished. I put my foot down and told him I expected to be treated with respect and kindness, even in a casual relationship, and he seemed to get a little better. The second time we got together he made me food and we spent more time talking etc. I was happy enough with that. But he reverted back to being disrespectful and rude again. Ignoring messages when it suited him. Texting at 11.45pm at night (which to be fair, I ignored because I'm not going round at that time.)

The last time we got together was after I had backed off a fair bit. We bumped into eachother and one thing led to another. I still fancied him a lot. But this time he came really quickly (unlike him) and then basically announced - like the first time we got together - that he was done and it was time for me to go now.

We talked and I made it clear that this was unnacceptable to me. That I had been looking forward to some hot sex with someone who would be my friend. I told him that although I was happy with casual and knew we would not be serious, that I thought we had real chemistry. He shook his head and just said we should call it a day. Basically said that I had only been a willing vagina rather than someone he felt an actual connection with.

Well of course I agree that if it's going to be like this then we should call it a day. But I remember back to when we were flirting and how he couldn't do enough for me - getting me drinks and making me coffees at our shared hobby. Always finding excuses to hang around me. The flirting. The staring as I walked past. You don't fake that sort of body language - I now feel so confused. How could I have got it so wrong? It stings and humiliates like buggery.

And I feel furious. With myself for not dumping his arse far sooner, but also with him. I feel he has treated me like shit. The only decent thing he has ever done is end things definitively rather than just ghosting me.

What I want to do is tell him off. Send him a message telling him he's a shit. That decent men are able to treat casual partners decently while maintaining the necessary boundaries. I want to tell him he's immature and that I deserved better.

But this is a terrible idea isn't it. He will probably just tell himself I'm crazy and that I lurve him (I don't.) And considering I haven't contacted him in any way for almost a week since he ended things, if I message now I'm just going to look like I'm still thinking about it (I am but perhaps he does not need to know this.)

How to handle. We're not strangers and are still going to see eachother about.

OP posts:
UglyHoose · 04/12/2020 07:42

Love your "who is this?" OP well done.

You don't need to call him out on his shitty behaviour, you did the ultimate put down.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 07:45

Guessing I callously discarded my fuck buddy as soon as I was finished with him too? Or was that different because I am female?

I want emotionally connected with him in any way. He was hot. I wanted to shag him. So I did. End of.

We had that thing going on for quite a while so it must’ve worked for him too.

We never got emotionally entangled. It was meet. Fuck. Go.

No cuddles. No take away. No sleeping after.

The way women have to be viewed as victims in this really annoys men the op knew he just wanted sex. She wanted more. They tried to compromise. It didn’t work for either of them. So delete and move on.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 07:45

*me

Bluntness100 · 04/12/2020 07:53

Greenland your posts make no sense. She was not “callously discarded”

It is very common for people to have sexual relationships where it’s just sex. There is nothing wrong with this, irrelevant of your views on it, if both parties just wish this. The issue here is the op did not wish this, even though he told her that’s all he wanted

By saying he treated her badly you’re saying he should have provided what she wanted, the drinks, food, overnight stays, breakfast cuddles. This is wrong. She had no entitlement to this, her entitlement was to say no to what he was offering, she was responsible for making the decisions.

It doesn’t matter which gender this is. If one party says jist sex, it’s up to the other party to either agree or decline. It is not a case that if you say yes you’re entitled to a relationship irrelevant of the other persons wishes.

Bluntness100 · 04/12/2020 07:57

The way women have to be viewed as victims in this really annoys men the op knew he just wanted sex

This. She knew the score. She knew what was on offer. She can’t demand a relationship in return and be viewed as being treated badly if she doesn’t get it. You can’t force someone to habe a relationship with you becayse you have sex with them.

GreenlandTheMovie · 04/12/2020 07:57

Bluntness my posts make perfect sense. They just don't accord with your own particular, exactingly blunt view of the world. And extremely low bar for male behaviour.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 07:58

Greenland how do you view my behaviour? I’m female.

Bluntness100 · 04/12/2020 08:00

@GreenlandTheMovie

Bluntness my posts make perfect sense. They just don't accord with your own particular, exactingly blunt view of the world. And extremely low bar for male behaviour.
Oh my, it’s nothing to do with gender. It’s everything to do with the rights of the individuals involved, it would be the exact same if the genders were reversed.

If one party says this is just sex. The other party saying ok, does not entitle them to a relationship. Male or female. It is not bad behaviour on that persons part. No one is entitled to a relationship. No one.

GreenlandTheMovie · 04/12/2020 08:00

I'm not really that interested enough in your behaviour to comment on it Ironing, since you aren't the subject of this post.

However, I'd hazard a guess that your FB treated you a damned sight better than this specimen in the OP, since you do at least sound satisfied.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 08:02

I didn’t always orgasm and neither did he. Usually we both did but not always. 🤷🏼‍♀️

That’s the deal. I need a fuck are you free. Yes. I get my fuck. And an orgasm. And go home. If we are both in the mood he gets to cum too. Or vice versa.

I got the better end of the deal for sure. But not every time.

That is how it works.

GreenlandTheMovie · 04/12/2020 08:06

TMI Ironing. Ever heard of over-sharing? You're not the only person ever to have had sex...

Lollypop701 · 04/12/2020 08:14

He wanted a Fb, op wanted fwb. She told him her expectations, albeit after they’d dtd. He agreed. Everything was fine for a while. He then returned to type. Op told him to bugger off. She came on here for support to not message him in a pissed off moment, not for people to comment on her choice of not Choosing to wait for her Prince to come (apparently this guy did that too soon anyway so at least you avoided sorting that issue out op!). Your update sounds good- Seems like it all worked out op! Personally I think he has issues with performance or devalues women who are happy with fwb rather than a relationship (lots of those people about apparently) but who knows! Definitely better off without him op

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 08:17

@GreenlandTheMovie

TMI Ironing. Ever heard of over-sharing? You're not the only person ever to have had sex...
You sound like you’re annoyed at my use of the words orgasm and cum.

But that’s what your twee satisfied means.

I shagged him. Sometimes we both got something out of it. Sometimes just one of us did.

That’s how it works in a fuck buddy thing.

VotNow · 04/12/2020 08:35

Reading through the new comments over my morning coffee and feeling a little bit misunderstood.

First, I don't feel led on. I don't believe he led me on. I know two months of flirting isn't a promise of a relationship or anything else.

Second, I don't believe having sex with someone entitles me to a relationship with them. I didn't/don't feel entitled to a relationship with this fella.

Third, I didn't know what was on offer, that's the point. Yes, he said just sex. I didn't know that just sex meant he would expect me leave as soon as he had finished. In my mind this is rude and callous behaviour although I can see many women don't think so and that's fine. I do think so. FWB, just sex, meant different things to him than they did to me. In my mind it meant sex without commitment and this could well include enjoying a drink or some food together afterwards and possible overnight stays. In his mind it meant the physical deed and bye bye. The crucial point is I didn't know that's what he meant - he didn't spell it out. I wasn't trying to coerce him into a relationship he didn't want - we just didn't understand eachother.

Now I do understand exactly what he wants (remember he did try to improve before reverting back) I will say a clear no if he tries to hook up again.

OP posts:
pictish · 04/12/2020 08:45

"I didn't know that just sex meant he would expect me leave as soon as he had finished. In my mind this is rude and callous behaviour although I can see many women don't think so and that's fine."

I agree with you, it is callous. You accepted and agreed on the casual sex but not to being treated like a service bot.
That's why you shouldn't have gone back for more after the first hook up.

category12 · 04/12/2020 08:46

Third, I didn't know what was on offer, that's the point. Yes, he said just sex. I didn't know that just sex meant he would expect me leave as soon as he had finished. In my mind this is rude and callous behaviour although I can see many women don't think so and that's fine.

I honestly think that those sort of remarks are coming from a (possibly unconscious) slut-shaming, judgy viewpoint of "a woman, agreeing to casual sex, but expecting not to be treated like a used tissue, bah, what did she expect?!" If that was normal for fwb, extremely few women would bother with it.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 08:46

No harm, but what did you think just sex meant?

To me it would mean just sex. And go home straight after.

VotNow · 04/12/2020 08:47

Also I'm not sure if he's quite as cool as he makes out. I'm assuming, Ironingontheceiling that your arrangement didn't involve any sharing of deeply personal information or chats about heavy stuff? This guy shared some very heavy things about his past with me. We did do some talking of the kind usually reserved for close relationships with people you trust.

Like a pp poster said, I think this guys actually really fucked up. I don't think his behaviour stems from a happy place and a genuine want for no strings (although I totally accept that plenty of people of both sexes are happy with this.) I think it stems from an absolute terror of closeness leading to being hurt/abandoned.

OP posts:
Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 08:47

To me he wanted a fuck buddy, and the op wanted a friends with benefits.

They neither of them got what they expected. He tried what she wanted and it didn’t work for either of them.

category12 · 04/12/2020 08:49

Even a "just sex" ONS, you'd expect a post-coital fag (metaphorical or not) and chit-chat, not booted out the door. Confused

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 08:52

@category12

Even a "just sex" ONS, you'd expect a post-coital fag (metaphorical or not) and chit-chat, not booted out the door. Confused
I wouldn’t. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I must be a bloke or something 😂😂😂

Shag. Finish. 5 mins. Thanks very much. Up and away.

GreenlandTheMovie · 04/12/2020 08:52

He sounds like an utterly shite shag. The sort of shag born out of years of casual hook ups with no real intimacy and assuming thats all there is.

Ironingontheceiling · 04/12/2020 08:53

What’s wrong with a casual hook up shag Greenland?

wizzbangfizz · 04/12/2020 08:54

I'm old and married but in more wistful moments would have thought a arrangement like this would not mean getting dressed immediately but maybe having a drink/chat beforehand or after because you'd assume you actually like the person as well and don't think they are a complete knob. And that wouldn't be about wanting for it to lead somewhere as much as just showing a bit of mutual respect.

To just get up and leave would feel too transactional for me.

Tempusfudgeit · 04/12/2020 08:57

There was a second time?!