How can I have a relationship in this situation?

[DatingDilemmas]

I am 46. I have two children of 22 and 15. I split up from their dad 8 years ago. He has been in a relationship since about 6 months after we split up.

I've had a few short term flings but nothing serious and no one I've really involved my kids with. They met the last man I dated a few times but that's all.

They both still live at home. Eldest at university and youngest doing GCSEs.

The youngest spends alternate weekends at her dad's. And this is my time to do what Iike. She doesn't see him otherwise and we have no other family. I have 4 nights a month.

I've recently started seeing someone and she has explicitly said that she doesn't want me seeing him when she is at home and I have alternate weekends when she's not here to do what I like.

I'm not going to prioritise a man or myself over her but I wondered how other people manage it.

I feel it's unfair that her dad gets to build a whole new life for himself while mine is still on hold waiting for the children to leave home.

I purposely haven't pursued a serious relationship so that I would always be able to prioritise them and have only had casual flings. But i would really like something more serious now.

It isn't her fault. She didn't ask to be in this situation.

I think they doubt my abilities as a functioning adult because I've been mostly single and can't sustain a long term relationship

So who has been bending their ear sowing this idea OP. It's very odd that your DC would think this when they have seen you work and provide for them solo for the past eight years? Have they gone without because you cannot adult "correctly", never got clothing, school supplies, not afford hobbies, not been fed everyday because you are not a proper adult? I doubt it.

The 22 year old should have more cop on frankly, he is an adult now and can be invited to leave if he doesn't like you having a life outside of catering to him. I would allow the 15 year old a bit more slack, not much more but a bit. They need to realise you are more than a service provider for them. Maybe point out that you haven't got a successful relationship since divorce as you focused on putting them first in all things. They are old enough to have that pointed out to them.

Do you discuss her well being with her father, do you have that kind of relationship you can talk about it or he is not communicative? Because she's his daughter too and he needs to help you with this

Its tricky. We dont communicate as well as we used to but that is driven by him. He deflects and puts up barriers now whereas he used to he quite involved. She is at an age now where she understands and can see it. That's only really come about in the past 12 months or so.

Things like she doesn't have a bedroom at his despite them living alone in a 3 bed house. She sleeps in the 'guest room' and the other bedroom is a cinema room. He tells her to wash up after dinner with the statement "you're not a guest in this house, you're family". She has said to me that she doesn't mind washing up after dinner at all but finds it galling when he tells her she's not a guest, she's family but then she has to sleep in the guest room and doesn't have any space to call her own there. He tells her he is interested in her life but then tries to pull the 'big man in charge' act or undermines her without actually speaking to her and understanding where she is coming from.

She loves him but she doesn't feel close to him. The same happened with the eldest when he was the same age. Ex either doesnt realise what he's doing or thinks that if he says the right things the children won't notice his actions but they do. He treats her like a little girl and doesn't recognise that she is growing up.

I know she talked to the guy I was seeing before who she liked about a couple of career ideas/FE plans she had and he listened to her and responded with wisdom, guidance and empathy and she really appreciated it. She told her dad her ideas and he "hmm"ed and told her he'd have to think about it. No conversation. She was fuming that he doesn't live with her, sees her twice a month and thinks she was asking his permission.

I feel I have to make up for that. Neither of them will address it with him because of the way in which he responds (passive aggressively and plays the victim). She is starting to say that she doesn't necessarily want to go to his alternate weekends at all because of it. She'd rather be at home and see her friends. It's only because of.lockdown that she's still going.

That's going to limit me even more but I won't insist she goes if she doesn't want to.

They've had no problem with me going out to see friends or a hobby. Maybe I always felt that time away from them for friends or a hobby was valid but not for a relationship? I don't know. Amd, tbf tonthem, they haven't objected to me seeing a man previously. I think they are just at the point of thinking, "Really? Again?" And maybe they have a point.

I also feel a bit guilty that it's not even for love. It's just a bit of companionship, affection and sex really and pretending I'm just like everyone else. I don't have expectations of love or a long term relationship.

So who has been bending their ear sowing this idea OP.

I think it's just the narrative around relationships generally. They require someone else to see your worth and I don't have that 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's interesting that your son is so keen on certain groups of people being able to live their life how they want, yet is so controlling of you, when you're in a different group.

Yes, I know.

Tbf, this is the first time they've said anything negative about me dating someone but it just took all the joy out of it.

And I'm not sure it's worth the hassle when it's unlikely.to go anywhere anyway. Is it worth it for a few months of company alternate weekends and not much else?

I think they are just at the point of thinking, "Really? Again?" And maybe they have a point

but this is adult dating and life! You don't only date for marriage! They will both probably have plenty of dates or short relationships that don't go anywhere - it's normal. It's not a failure. Where did you get this idea from??

I also feel a bit guilty that it's not even for love. It's just a bit of companionship, affection and sex really and pretending I'm just like everyone else. I don't have expectations of love or a long term relationship

Guilty? That's so sad. You have some really messed up ideas about love and relationships and what you deserve from them. Fun, affection and companionship are worthy in their own right. It doesn't have to be marriage track.

And I'm not sure it's worth the hassle when it's unlikely.to go anywhere anyway. Is it worth it for a few months of company alternate weekends and not much else?

You're basically saying it's not worth dealing with the hassle of your controlling children to do something you want to do. This is how women in abusive relationships talk. They ARE being controlling and you need to nip it in the bud. With the older, the ADULT man, you can be explicit. 'You are trying to control me and this is unacceptable. You never have the right to control another adult'. Don't let them believe they have the right!

CodenameVillanelle

You're right.

I hadn't even thought of it like that before.

I don't feel I'm walking on eggshells. Or I haven't until this - and I'm dreading leaving the house this afternoon.

I know what they're doing too (although I doubt they'd realise), it's the whole.starting an argument thing so that you don't go out.

If I told my son he was being controlling about it, he'd laugh I think and make answering retort (like he did when he told me I was having a strop or when he went up to his room and stopped talking to me).

I agree with the controlling part but where have they learnt that? Their father? Sounds like it. That's not her fault.
She sounds confused about relationships. Not having her own room at her dads is really crap for her. He is authoritive with her like a father but no loving relationship. How can she belong at his house without her own things in her own room.
This isn't your fault either OP but the way forward is to see where your daughters behaviour is coming from.

I say again, talk to her. She sounds desperate to cling onto you.

Her behaviour is not ok but she is still a child who deep down needs reassurance.

You are still the closest and safest adult she has.

They need to realise that when it comes to your social life they are part of the welcoming party rather than the selection committee.

How would they take it if you took the piss and did a Kevin the Teenager eye roll routine about not being able to do anything, asking them if they were grounding you?

Or a curt "wow you really remind me of your father right now."

You are still the closest and safest adult she has.

I know. I'm the only adult they have in that respect.

Their dad is great at the authority but not so great at the relationship building. He found it easier when she was younger and could be pacified with a gift.

My eldest once said that their dad only does stuff with them that he could post about on fb and be told what an amazing dad he was whereas they just wanted his time.

I suppose that's all I've ever been able to give them and have done so in spades.

They both confide in me with the caveat not to tell their dad because they don't trust his reaction.

We get on really well generally but I also think that's because we don't disagree on much.

It certainly got worse when we realised we were on the opposing sides of the political issue.

But we had a great time together over lockdown. I wonder if they just got used to having me around so much?

My son isn't bothered what I do for himself. He is very bothered when it comes to his sister.

I suspect it's more because I didnt have a good relationship with my mum and we haven't seen her for years. I think it has subconsciously come from that. I think I've done it (to) myself in a lot of ways (without realising it) to avoid being like her.

I've never wanted them to feel the way I did about myself, my home or my mum. But then, I'm also aware that I made a poor choice in their dad because I didnt understand any of this at the time.

He was definitely controlling. He used the same manipulative techniques on me as he does now on them. My eldest saw through it long before I did.

How would they take it if you took the piss and did a Kevin the Teenager eye roll routine about not being able to do anything, asking them if they were grounding you?

I'd imagine they'd respond with, "For God's sake, grow up and stop behaving like a child."

It wouldn't help.

Or a curt "wow you really remind me of your father right now."

They'd tell me i was resorting to saying that because I knew I was in the wrong. They've done that before

So does your DD stay with your ex and his partner?

double standards? Do as I say not as I do?

In your shoes I’d just invite your new partner round to yours on x night each week.

Neither of your children should get to dictate what you do, life is so bloody short, and they won't give you a seconds thought when they are out partying with their mates in the future.

Be firm and get a life, literally

So does your DD stay with your ex and his partner?

Yes. But that is her stopping at their house not someone stopping at hers. Besides, he's been with the same woman for the whole time. She has built up a relationship with her and, from what I can see, it's a god relationship that is beneficial to my daughter. She does things with her that she'd never get from me.

In your shoes I’d just invite your new partner round to yours on x night each week.

No, I wouldn't do that. My last boyfriend (the one they liked) came round approx one evening a fortnight for a couple of hours but never stopped over. I'm not ready for them to meet yet.

I’m going to put a different slant on this.

Is it possible they’re projecting feelings they had about when their dad started seeing someone on to you?

When their dad started seeing his partner they were much younger and wouldn’t have felt in a position to voice an opinion on it as they were still children. Now that they’re older, they’re old enough to not only have an opinion but to also vocalise that opinion.

Also, saying that you’re going to see this man and then stay over, even the fifteen year old is old enough to know what that means, and it’s quite likely she doesn’t want to think about the idea of her mum going off to have casual sex with a bloke she’s never met. Most teenagers don’t even want to think of their parents having sex under their own roof, let alone going out with the explicit intention of doing so, especially if he has been one in a number of casual boyfriends.

You absolutely do have the right to see someone, but I wouldn’t go off on one at the DC, I would instead look to have a very honest conversation about how you never pursued anything when they were younger because you felt they were a priority, but that now they’re heading towards adulthood you are going to be on your own soon, and you really don’t want to be. Tell them you won’t be telling them when they can and can’t start dating, and that they presumably wouldn’t like it if you did, so they should probably think about that a bit before being too judgemental.

And tbh at 15 and 22 they’re old enough to meet men you date IMO, so I would say that if they’re not comfortable with the idea of you going to his, then you’re going to invite him round to yours.

If the relationships are so casual that you don’t want them round at yours then I might just be a bit more cautious about telling them when you see someone new.

I also feel a bit guilty that it's not even for love. It's just a bit of companionship, affection and sex really and pretending I'm just like everyone else. I don't have expectations of love or a long term relationship.

You ARE like everyone else. You're a single woman having a (tiny) bit of a life, while still being sensible about it because you have a 15 year old DC.

The elder one is an adult man who really should butt out of your very small personal life. You're still just 'mum' the majority of the time.

Well I've just said to my daughter (out of earshot of my son) that I am going to his tonight but that I'll be back in the morning rather than later on in the day.

We're watching a film this morning.

She was fine about it.

Why? What is this out of the earshot of my son all about?

This IS exactly what you do when you’re living with an abuser.

Why is this dynamic here? That in some way you’re fearful of stating what your decisions are in your own home?

The other thing that worries me that the Apple hasn’t called too far from the Father Tree is that your son is not complaining on his - a grown arse man who could very well be living under his own roof - but on the teen sister... that’s manipulative and a pile of crap. Sounds like she’s not actually that bothered, but being wound up by him as a method to control you.

@DatingDilemmas, mate, you’ve got enormous issues under your roof, through your desire to be the decent parent you thought your kids needed you to be you’ve created a monster (perhaps 2) in your home.

I don't think calling her children (even if one is an adult) monsters is helpful.

They obvs need better boundaries , which the OP is aware and working on. Non of us are perfect parents.

The good thing is the OP recognises the dynamics need to change and she needs her own life too. Sounds like she's starting to do that.

@DatingDilemmas

Well I've just said to my daughter (out of earshot of my son) that I am going to his tonight but that I'll be back in the morning rather than later on in the day.

We're watching a film this morning.

She was fine about it.

Good to hear the drama with your DD seems to have reduced if her brother is not there to wind her up about it.

I'd be telling your DS firmly that you're off out when it's time to leave, and if he doesn't like it, he has the choice of finding somewhere else to live. You HAVE to try and break this cycle of control he is imposing on you.

It’s a turn of phrase love, creating a monster.

It’s not actually calling him a monster.

Love?
Well it's a crap turn of phrase for this thread.

Hi OP I suspect that your son's ALN means he struggles to see things from other people's points of view? That does it more difficult but it doesn't mean you shouldn't go out tonight.

I also suspect you've tried really hard to not replicate your own experience, with your mum's boyfriends moving in and assuming authority over you. You've done a great job as a parent. You're entitled to a night off.

@Aerial2020

Love? Well it's a crap turn of phrase for this thread.

Oh ffs.

I understood the 'creating a monster' phrase but can also see why it's not welcomed in the circs so it's s all good

I suspect that your son's ALN means he struggles to see things from other people's points of view?

It can do. Once he's 'got it's it's fine but it can take a while to get there. It's more that he's not very good at accepting it if its different to his.

I also suspect you've tried really hard to not replicate your own experience, with your mum's boyfriends moving in and assuming authority over you.

Yes. I've been pretty much the opposite sort of parent to my mum was to me. I think it was the right thing to do but I think the impact of my upbringing has made it difficult to assert my own needs strongly enough. Maybe...

Why? What is this out of the earshot of my son all about?

He has a tendency to take sides. He assumes a 'parental' role with my daughter on occasion and I tell him it's not his place to do so. He also tries to act as 'mediator' when it isn't necessary and has also undermined me regarding her. Even when he's supportive of me, he tends to phrase it as, "What mum is trying to say, although she's doing it badly..."

But if he chooses to take her side against me, I have no chance. I knew that she, on her own, would just accept it. Which she did.

There is a dynamic with single mums and their kids whereby the kids can start to think they have a say over our lives. Female socialisation leads us to put our kids first especially when their dad is a prick.
My DS has tried to tell me things he doesn't want me doing since I got a boyfriend 3 years ago and I've had to remind him that it's not his place/I'm an adult etc but he's 12 and lacks maturity. I live in fear that he will grow up to be a controlling man and am addressing it head on when I see it. You need to address it with your son properly and inhabiting the authority that you have as a mature, experienced adult.
You seem to think somehow you aren't a proper adult because you're single. You know more than your son and you have the right to assert yourself over him when he acts like he's your equal. He's not.