Dating Thread 196 - Winter Wonderland Walks

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

That Mr Beard @UtterSocks! I felt myself going the same way with Mr VWs aloofness but managed to exercise a previously weak muscle of not giving a monkeys and grateful for what it was (no strings attached chill lockdown fun)

Interestingly I'm now swaying
If he does a u-turn on Sat night plans and offers to visit I might just accept his offer knowing full well it will deffo be the last time I see him
He may not of course.
I was resolute in my 'Soz made alt plans' less resolute in the 'and by the way I'm out'

I'd decided that my dumping line if used will/would be 'Im too nice for you' no slander, no list of things that don't work for me about him, no character assassinations & from nothing for him to refute and argue against (not that he would it's so obvious he's done) just the truth as I am.

@Ruralbliss the comment about how did this person last 10 years, that struck a note for me. My partner and I lasted 5 years yet he was abusive behind the scenes so you really don't know what people put up with. I think as time passes, you'll see him for being the plonker he is .

I've taken on board everyone's great advice about Mr Yoga having to isolate and accepted it for what it is. We seem to be carrying on in the same vein although virtually. I had booked a restaurant for his birthday plus bought pressies and a cake but I'll have to work out how to deliver the latter to him. I'm thinking a long London walk of some kind instead of the slap up meal!

And my rationale for possibly accepting a u-turn if it is offered is that it wasn't a definite no can do for Saturday and I so rarely have no kids at home (last one March I think) it would be fun to share it. We do have a good time due to the booze, weed, food, mediocre sex.

Annnnnd I'd be interested to see what he thinks of my house (complicated why so won't go into that)

But I défini would be doing myself a disservice and I'd feel crap afterwards I already know I would.

What the hell am I like.

@Ruralbliss id say no to the weekend. He appears to be breadcrumbing you a bit. Like you say, you'll feel worse after.

Ok @Eesha I know you are right but what about the last time lolz and sex. Might be a while before I get an opportunity again.

Non? Not worth it?

It's a moot point. The latest breadcrumbs indicate he can't do Sat due to his teen kids which come to his whenever they fancy and live walking distance away. To me that's an excuse which translates as 'I don't want to see you on Sat'

Ok head wobbled.

I just found this site which gives detail about breadcrumbing.

www.aconsciousrethink.com/10382/breadcrumbing/

That was helpful.

Afternoon all. @Ruralbliss I have been reading back over your messages - you know if you see him this weekend it'll have you feeling shit again afterwards. By pulling back on contact, you have been made to feel anxious and uncertain. If he parades back in saying yes to this weekend, you will be pulled back. Only to lurch straight back to those thoughts of 'is this going to be the last time?' again come Monday.

Thoughts of mine are - I would definitely not say 'I'm too nice for you' as that sounds petulant and whiny - I would keep it factual if anything about how what he's offering does not match what you are seeking - level of contact, commitment, view to it leading somewhere, compatibility, whatever. It shows you know what you want and need and are clear cut about being worthy of holding out for that.

This umming and ahhing about what you'll do if he says yes to this weekend is exactly why blocking and deleting is such a good way forward - because it stops you having to think about that because he can't contact you to scatter the breadcrumbs.

And hang on a cotton picking minute - the sex was just mediocre?

I'm feeling a bit better but only because MrR simply won't tolerate my whining about feeling needy (aka wheedling my way into trying to get reassurance). He called this morning and was very nice and supportive about my court situation, without dwelling on it too much, and then made me laugh for a few minutes which distracted me from all my 'waaah my life is a car crash who will want meee' self-pity.

Mediocre sex @Ruralbliss? Never worth it, let alone all the rudeness, disrespect and general meh-ness this guy puts out. You'll feel HORRIBLE afterwards, and your recovery period will be lengthened. Please, please dump him!

I take your point about wanting the fun on Saturday night, child-free. Do you have any renegade friends who can be persuaded to break lockdown with you for the evening?

[quote UtterSocks]@Ruralbliss I’m sorry you have had to put up with this. It’s massively shit is what it is, whether you have known him weeks, months or years! And I agree with @freelancedolly that ambiguity is really the killer which drives insecurities. It was ambiguity with Mr Beard that drove me from being a “sexy, funny and excellent company” tough girl (his words) to an anxiously attached, overthinking wreck over about 6 weeks.

I’m admiring the ruthless attitude of some on here especially @VanGoghsDog and think I could have saved myself a lot of heartache by adopting it in that case. I have done the block and delete since but only after firing off a message flaming them. I don’t think I’d even do that now. I doubt anyone ever read a message explaining why their behaviour was callous and suddenly felt remorse and realised the error of their ways!

This thread is so incredibly helpful in identifying these things. And spotting patterns of behaviour. And red flags. The same ones that look like welcome banners to the unwary.

But no matter how common an experience is, or how wise you are to it, it fucking hurts when it happens to you. All you can do is exit earlier and minimise damage, even if (like me) resisting the urge to flog something to death occasionally gives you a “what if?” feeling. (Usually based on wishful thinking). And lockdown makes it so much worse as it is so more difficult to distract yourself.

I hope the love and support on here makes you feel a bit better @RuralBliss. Know we are all sending support for you and horrible vengeance for him through the ether!!![/quote]
@UtterSocks this sounds very familiar (hmm and my last iron had a beard... hmmm ) - I went from being "funny, clever and pretty" to an anxiously attached loon over about the same time frame..

Weirdly enough, I have just seen my ex-iron avec beard back on Tinder with his yet again rejigged profile and new photos. And now describing himself as an Asexual Man .

@Ruralbliss one thing I hope I get better at (because I have always been rubbish) is at ending things as early as possible at first signs that someone is not equipped to give you the intimacy you need. The longer it goes on, the more 'trauma bonded' you become, and the harder it is to break away from. And as I think I mentioned on here a few days ago, I've now realised it's the breaking away from someone not treating you as a decent adult that hurts the most, it's not about the amount of love (or whatnot) but about the way it's all handled that for me accounts for most of the pain.

@Ruralbliss
Apologies for misremembering the FWB thing.

Its good to see you've analysed your dating history and found some common themes that everyone can learn from.

A guy I was messaging in July and let fade was presented to me on Tinder last night

I'd forgotten all about him but our exchanges are great.

Messaged him this morning saying 'Hi remember me? Are you still single? If so shall we do phone call?' and he came back pretty quickly.

Hilariously if I didn't already have Bad Mr VW I'd be giving him the nickname MrVW!
Looks like I have a type (I already knew this. It's old news)

If I chat and we both fancy meeting I'll call him MrVW#2! For the hilarity

I think you're right about the sense of shiftiness I'd feel by an uninterested uncaring bloke I have no intention of moving forward with being in my home.

In fact that was another Lesson Learned.
I feel good that he's not been to my home and possibly never will.
When romances have ended in the past I've been self conscious that it could be because of my home as well as my body, personality, pheromones, ability in bed etc
One less thing to be paranoid about

Other than the mediocre sex - how is he seeing this neighbour so much and shagging you? He sounds reckless. I wouldn't trust him.

I'm sort of OK about a bit of rule breaking, had MrCadet at mine for a cuppa, though stayed socially distant, but not if he was also having all and sundry round his house.

I wfh, MrC works from home, I am bubbled with my mum who I see about every six weeks, he's bubledd with his sister who he also sees now and then. He has teenage kids who don't live with him but they're older and he doesn't see them that much. So we're fairly well contained.

Sorry didnt press refresh..

@Ruralbliss
Mediocre sex? Why the hell did you keep going back?
I'm sure you would have more fun with your vibrator....you can drink, smoke weed, cook yourself nice food so what else can he bring to enhance the situation?

Step away from him and dont consider seeing him one last time, you will have serious regrets

Hmmmmmmm @freelancedolly re trauma bonded. I hear you and you speak good sense.

@SortingItOut are you kidding me. I'm amazed you remember anything.

I'm totally dominating this thread today.
I'll stop now and just update you all after the weekend as to how it pans out.

Might try and encourage a cheeky first walking date whilst kid-free

Mediocre sex? Another "no" vote here @Ruralbliss ! Even if it did by some miracle work out and you dated for longer - when the adoration wore off the sex would still be a bit 'meh'!

Thanks for the thread about breadcrumbing by the way. I should be an expert in it by now but I shall read it anyway to reassure myself my experience is universal.

Also - recognise the 'he never asked anything about me' comment. Mr Beard didn't after the first couple of dates (in fact after I fucked him. That's when that stopped). Or asked how I was. I knew everything about him (apart from him being a faithless shag-happy cunt) and from the very first date I knew in detail how HE was and how HE felt, in real-time, all the time.

I hope you have some rebel mates @Ruralbliss to get drunk with on Saturday instead!

Oh and. also... I am really down about lockdown and being in Tier 3, and the fact that now I've opened my eyes, Mr Ginger apparently lives with his ex (despite minimising it) so always up to me to host.

Getting DD to commit to being out or not on Saturday is like waiting for the government to ratify an EU trade agreement, so I am anticipating a) telling him he can't come round this weekend just in case then b) her going out at an hour's notice leaving me in alone. Bored and thinking my sad scary thoughts about lockdown, terrifyingly hostile divorce, passive aggressive nastiness of ex and in-laws and the shitshow of my online dating life and how much I am DREADING Christmas and New Year!

I often feel like the only person in my (very wide) social circle that not only has no partner but no family either. And 2020 has been such a SHIT year for me. I remember last New Year thinking in 12 months I'd be in a better place. It's quite the opposite. I'm in the same place or worse but with 12 months of shit dating and a horrible heartbreak in the bag too, making me feel even more unloveable.

I've never had this Mr Ginger situation before. They are usually men who have a flat and the kids live with the ex, so I never usually have to invite a man into my house as if it goes wrong I don't want the bad memories - and also my DD is an utter bitch, so can't risk her seeing or meeting anyone. (Wouldn't want her to anyway unless it was serious, but I am thinking even so, that won't happen anyway as a) men see me as a sex and sympathy service industry rather than a person and b) if they were to ever run into DD her attitude might scar them for life! 😂)

So I'm thinking of dropping Mr Ginger. I'm sick of people's baggage. @WeWantTheFinestWines you say you are in the same situation (living with ex) and I'm sorry you have to do that, but one question - were you honest with your irons from the get-go? Because I feel Mr Ginger has tried to rush me into an exclusive relationship with a bit of love-bombing and stating he is deleting the apps on date 2 as he is so into me, BEFORE he admitted his ex 'stays the odd night when she is doing something with the kids' but 'is living with her mother while the kids live with me'.

I now suspect it is a lot more - he is in the spare room in his own home FFS which he pays for as she is 'too ill to work' (with no discernible diagnosis) and has been forever. He's a nice guy but it's a dead duck right? He is trapped. He should not have pretended he was available to date. Without lockdown it would have been tolerable. Within lockdown it isn't workable.

So back on OK Cupid! Gathering more nutters, players and liars no doubt. After Mr Beard I trust nobody.

@Eesha - hope you manage to sort a good birthday date with Mr Yoga! Let us know!

(oh and PS after reading definitions and descriptions on here and other threads have realised Mr Local doesn't even match up to FWB status. As literally ALL we do is fuck for hours and then have a bit of a chat about inconsequential stuff like our favourite biscuits before I get dressed and go home. So he's an FB. Hardly a friend. I can't even get that right, but am so starved of affection I feel friendly towards him out of all proportion! Honestly, I might as well become an escort and get paid FFS).

Good steer re not sounding petulant or whiny there @freelancedolly

Probs best to state what my standards are and how they're not met - just a few.

Yes good point re neighbour. I don't think he particularly wants him there but the mate is bored/lonely and likes to eat his food. He's low risk as at home with no going out.

Who cares. I won't be seeing him again now thanks to you lot.

Ruralbliss So sorry your gut was right. I was with someone for 14 months - started off as both wanting a relationship but turned out to be a once a week meetup for sex and food. Our weekly meets were 10 hours long, we got on amazingly well, laughed so much but only ever dtd and went out for dinner (when able). BUT there was always something missing for me that never went away. I didn't block - just renamed him in my contacts as 'Do not contact - stupid' - it worked for me.

So have gone back on the apps - so far some lovely chats started - 90% of which have led to sex messages - got to love the men on POF lol

@UtterSocks you sound like you're in a bit of a bad way emotionally, I'm so sorry. Given your situation and the shit year you've had, I wonder whether OLD is right for you at the moment? It's so often a headfuck as we all know, and it seems to be even more so in these weird times .

Aw @UtterSocks what a dark place you are in - totally understandable

A shame you can't come to mine this Saturday to get wasted and share war tales.

This too shall pass. Spring will come and the pandemic will one day be behind us and children will grow up and leave home.

I screen out guys who don't have their own space. I have to have to date guys who can host me in their house due to kids always at mine. If they don't have that set up they can't date me. End of

@UtterSocks I'm sorry you're feeling shit about everything. I'm not far off that too. What a crap year this has been.

Re living with ex, I have been totally up front and honest about my situation at the outset as there is nothing to hide. I have zero feelings for him, we've been in separate bedrooms for years, we have both dated, we are just stuck in the house for financial reasons. I don't think it's been a problem for anyone in an emotional sense, but it has restricted my movements a bit as my DC have come to expect me to be around all the time, so I have to tell them if I'm going out, and I couldn't do overnights until I told them I had a BF. Before he left me for another woman... yup, shit year.

Being unable to see my friends has also left me feeling quite lonely. I will be spending Christmas with my ex's family, who will come to us if rules allow, but I'd much rather be with my family. They're abroad though and I don't know when I'll be able to see them.

So all round lockdown-and-love shittiness round these parts. Feeling unloved and unlovable and a bit of an all-round failure.

Having an FB for great sex and biscuit-talk sounds pretty good to me though.

Settling in with a cup of tea and a caramel bar and some episodes of First Dates - bit corny/staged but anyone else watch it?

Aw thanks all for your sympathy and sorry for being such a Debbie Downer today!

@Ruralbliss ahah would love to come to yours and get wasted. One day post lockdown eh?

@Tiggerdatter - yeh I am in a bad way but it is only 30% due to OLD and 20% due to work/money and 50% due to the extreme stress and worry about my divorce and twatting bastard manipulative ex (and awkward DD and vile SIL). Plus I always feel down at this time of year because since my parents died and the kids have grown up I find Xmas and NY lonely - I have SO many friends, but not at this time of year when they are all with their families, and this is even more the case in 2020

@WeWantTheFinestWines - sorry you have had a shit year too! And have to have an ex in-law Xmas (shudders).

But yes, the crazy fucking and biscuit chat with Mr Local is fantastic, don't get me wrong! I wouldn't give him up right now for anything, he's a filthy sexy pirate and quite sweet actually. I just sometimes wish someone or other that I actually fancied would value me a bit more sometimes but it is what it is!

Just catching up with thread and to everyone feeling low - it’s been a crazy challenging year, this time of year is weird anyway with stress and the weather and the light levels.

Normally we can pop out to a cafe for a latte or the shops but we’re stuck in for now!