Dating Thread 196 - Winter Wonderland Walks

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

Sorry to hear this, @Ruralbliss. Funny how often the gut is right. Interesting re suspected autism but I also remember research from a while ago that wealthy people have less empathy / sympathy. Which comes first, wealth or coldness is moot of course. Crap behaviour on his part so you're better off out of it bearing some sort of personallity transplant. Agree with @freelancedolly about the lack of explanation being the most maddening of the frustrations. Moving on is clearly the right thing to do. Tell him to go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut.

@Ruralbliss I’m sorry to hear this, though I’m afraid I’m not surprised. In your shoes I would 100% dump him, I honestly can’t see why you would NOT dump him at this point. He’s been so rude, falling asleep on the sofa FFS. A text along the lines of ‘I’m sorry but we’ve reached the end of the road, I’m not going to mess you about, it’s been fun, wishing you well’ draws a line for you. Then block if you don’t want an answer or to know whether he bothered answering.

🍷💐

@DudefromThatLondon I’m sorry but that research sounds crap. Some of the kindest people I know are very wealthy, some of the nastiest are poor. And vice versa. I suppose it might apply re very single-minded entrepreneurs, who are a small subset of wealthy people.

Oh blimey @Mayzee & @TiggerDatter you are both clearly way better at this shit than I am.

I'd still be hoping he gets in touch and says he is still coming on Saturday if it wasn't for you amazing lot.

So the behaviours I've shared with you all point towards not the one for me especially as he's so obviously not treating me as I should be buuuuut I'm not great at cutting things off before the bitter end. Not sure why.

Two things (and I know I'm in danger of giving the dumping options far more headspace than it warrants as pointed out by @VanGoghsDog)

1. I kind of don't want to make it easy for him by sending a 'So long and goodbye' I'm imagining he'll get a sense of thank fuck for that, job done, phew didn't need to do anything other than be a bit shit. Great.
2. Having been mentally damaged by being ghosted twice - I'm now fully aware of the torture this can invoke. It may not with him but it feels like more of a fuck you than a gracious dumping via text.

There. Decision made. No further action necessary from me. Don't need to decide wording or block etc. Just wake up tomorrow and dust myself down, get on with the day.

A bonus of him being crap texter (from day we matched) is there won't be a gaping hole in that dept which I missed when splitting from previous irons who were brilliant and prolific at texting.
Great!

Weird though that I won't see him again
Ah well that's just OLD isn't it. Here today gone tomorrow.

Thanks for all the support you lot.

Oh but hang on if he never gets in touch again he'd be ghosting me. Or mutually silently letting each other go. That would be good.

@tiggerdater - I don’t think it was meant that wealth condemned you to being some sort of villain. Neither would being poor necessarily mean you’re a decent person. With these kinds of things it’s always difficult to draw conclusions about individuals as they look at behaviour of groups of people rather than individuals (I guess I was just guilty of that). You might also argue that keeping hold of excess money is a hard-nosed decision given the levels of poverty in the world. Anyway, you can judge for yourself here: greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_money_changes_the_way_you_think_and_feel

@Ruralbliss sorry your iron has been such a disappointment. He just sounds a flake and I think you'll look back and see he wasn't as nice as you'd thought. Easier said I know. But from what you've written, he doesn't deserve your time.

Poor you @ruralbliss sounds like a nightmare and as others have said thanks to this thread you know you’re def in the right and his behaviour is not ok! Onwards and upwards!!

@ruralbliss well you could always go the 'tables turned' option if you prefer the little revenge option. He'll text eventually, count on it. When he does. Ignore. Resolutely ignore. People don't like that shit no matter how bees knees they think themselves.

@Ruralbliss agree with others your feelings are completely valid. I would really recommend hitting the block and delete button if you are able to - it's the only way to truly close yourself off from the ambiguity/ambivalence, if you are able.

Do you think you have a tendency to put men on pedestals and idealise what they represent/what they could be, even if they are a bit distant? I have a tendency to do this and have a history of going for avoidant types, thinking that that was what I found attractive. It is also what drives me to insanity and heartbreak in the end, with me idealising how things are, the level of contact they are offering, and trying to convince myself it's what I wanted all along. Also resonates you saying "I thought this might be what normal was like" ref the low amount of texting. I think if we've had a history of 'not normal', trying to identify the 'normal' is hard. After my last iron (spectacularly also let me down on the eve of my having my annual two week break from the children - suddenly I was on my own for two weeks and with no kids around to give me focus - it was hideous) I felt like screaming with frustration as I too had thought this was my first go at 'normal'.

Therapist is adamant that the more we practice this stuff, the better we get. This thread is also helpful I think; so much wisdom. If you can end it and block contact from him I think it would be a really good start for whatever comes next. Maybe think about the ways in which this wasn't an ideal relationship set up for you - could you say something like 'on reflection I don't think you're going to be able to give me the level of contact and relationship I think I'm looking for, wish you luck etc' and take some sort of control from it that way? I think knowing you like 'textual intercourse' is a real positive - this is a need you have - and I'm the same. I don't want day in, day out non stop intense madness, but I do need that occasional hilarious back and forth to break up the day.

I'm feeling bloody wobbly at the moment about my own iron, worrying he's out of my league, worrying about the fact that I'm in the middle of court proceedings with my ex (and just to buck the trend, I'm 7 years post separation, 4 post divorce, and still angsting that I'm not going to be seen as an 'attractive bet' as someone who still needs to go through these things with an ex husband) and that this is just too annoying for someone you've just met, etc.

Not to mention the fact that I have a sinking feeling that when someone gets to know me more, they'll like me less. WTF is that kind of crap... it's so annoying.

We are still thinking we might be able to go away to Tenerife in mid December but finding out about the Tiers yesterday did not help my mood.

I just feel so stressed with all the stuff going on - court, I'm job hunting, new relationship, kids going through entrance exams (one just failed), etc etc... arghh.

@Ruralbliss
Sorry to read that Mr VW hasnt lived up to expectations.

Is there a reason you fell so hard snd fast for someone who made it clear he only wanted FB/FWB?
Was it because you got on so well you hoped he would realise how amazing you are and want to become your boyfriend?

When a man tells you early on what he is and wants you should believe him.

I think a few of us on here recently have bucked the trend in that our FWB became boyfriends but that is so rare and I'm worried others on here get their hopes up.

Remember you are amazing and you want and deserve a relationship, never settle for less than you want or deserve.

I hope you get through today and have a really great weekend doing all the stuff you want to do

I might be meeting Mr Finland

New iron. Yes he is the one who said not looking for anything serious but now he has tipped me off I am happy to go on a date knowing the stakes and not to have sex with this man.

I won't be led on so to speak. I'll go on a date for the practice

@Ruralbliss I completely agree that's shit, it's good that you can see things for how they were. Allow yourself to feel sad and then get back up. We have all been there.

Yes to flakeyness to a single mum, I hate being messed around when my time is precious. I didn't respond to Mr Fix it's message yesterday evening (saying he was heading home from work) it was like he purposely sent it to make himself feel better for the flaking (it was 6.30ish, we had planned to meet at 5ish before he text and said he'd be working late)
We've not met and he's bailed twice due to work, imagine dating that? Nope nope nope.

@cravingthelook
Great boundaries there.
I understand work comes first but if you had a job that didn't have a set finish why would you arrange dates during your working day🤷‍♀️

Everyone knows whether the job they have has a set finish or not and also whether things can crop up at all hours so surely you would plan round that......

craving I don't understand why he couldn't meet after 6.30, it's not exactly late!

Sounds flakey! 2 cancelled meets and expecting you to wait on a 3rd...put him in the bin.

I've been back on the apps. Cat kindly reviewed my profile and I need to make some minor tweaks!

I'm getting a few messages but no one of interest. The odd one I like doesn't keep the conversation going....I'm losing hope rapidly with OLD. I guess the good ones will be chatting to lots.

Where are the decent men who are polite and looking for a relationship?!?!

Thank you thank you thank you all. What a smashing amount of comment and support. So good of you.

@freelancedolly so sorry you are having a wobble. You sure do have a load going on which might make you feel overwhelmed.

Can't believe anyone would think your current circs over the total package of you would shy away. It's your shit you have to plod through not really a burden for someone adding spice & niceness to your existence!

BTW My iron never said he was only up for something casual/FWB In fact he hoped we might be each other's last first date ahead of meeting. He is serial monogamous as far as I can tell. It was me who classified it as having the potential to be FWB and unlikely to be anything more serious or permanent. Thank goodness I did. It's helped not get the feels.

Thought I'd share some lessons learned (personal to me but possibly useful to others meeting new irons)

1. Turns out in my survey sample of 5 romances over 2.5 yrs that the first phone call has the red flags a-flying loud and proud. When I look back at reasons romances crashed & burned or fizzled like this latest one is about to they are the reasons I thought 'Hmmmmm' on the very first phone call but continued to proceed to a first physical date.

1. I stand by my principle of fast tracking match -> text -> phone -> (ideally on one day same day as matching) date -> (ideally within a week of matching) -> bonk to assess compatibility in the sack and again looking back on all 5 OLD actual romances there was sexual incompatibility from the off. Be that pheromones, DTD aspects which weren't ideal, etc.

1. An 8 week period (8-10 dates) feels perfect amount of time to gather enough data on the person you are getting to know especially accepting that the behaviour you see on early dates is exemplary trying to win you. The repeated pattern for me seems to be enjoyable fun for 8 or so weeks then thinking 'Nah. I'm out'

Which is where I am today.

Mr VW texted this morning while my phone was firmly in airplane mode explaining he'd had his omnipresent neighbour mate round then had fallen asleep.

His apparent narcolepsy/alcoholism doesn't float my boat any more than bailing on my precious child free night.

Oh ffs @freelancedolly forgot to acknowledge the shitty shitty time your fortnight sans kids got trashed. Hopefully this was pre-Covid and you were able to make alternative fun plans? Awful.

Yes @cravingthelook Mr Fix bailing but not being able to meet 90 mins later sounds like he's not going out of his way to make you the highest priority. His bloody loss daft sod. Sorry that happened.

Oh and one more thing...

I caught myself doing something recently I did 23 years ago when I got back with a mad/bad ex bf after a two year gap which lead to a 20 year crap marriage to him.

My head told me 'On paper this is a good match who ticks all the boxes. Ignore gut telling you otherwise and do whatever you can do to hang on to him. You may not find anyone this great again'

Noooooooooo!
Ffs.
Thanks to the original daftness & resulting long term awfulness i was able to give my head an almighty wobble.

I also find myself wondering 'How did this guy have such a long term years and years relationship before me but I'm not able to stay with him beyond 8 weeks....?'

It's actually irrelevant the dynamics and chemistry and ties with their previous.
All that matters is my own personal assessment as to whether he's good for me!

@Ruralbliss I’m sorry you have had to put up with this. It’s massively shit is what it is, whether you have known him weeks, months or years! And I agree with @freelancedolly that ambiguity is really the killer which drives insecurities. It was ambiguity with Mr Beard that drove me from being a “sexy, funny and excellent company” tough girl (his words) to an anxiously attached, overthinking wreck over about 6 weeks.

I’m admiring the ruthless attitude of some on here especially @VanGoghsDog and think I could have saved myself a lot of heartache by adopting it in that case. I have done the block and delete since but only after firing off a message flaming them. I don’t think I’d even do that now. I doubt anyone ever read a message explaining why their behaviour was callous and suddenly felt remorse and realised the error of their ways!

This thread is so incredibly helpful in identifying these things. And spotting patterns of behaviour. And red flags. The same ones that look like welcome banners to the unwary.

But no matter how common an experience is, or how wise you are to it, it fucking hurts when it happens to you. All you can do is exit earlier and minimise damage, even if (like me) resisting the urge to flog something to death occasionally gives you a “what if?” feeling. (Usually based on wishful thinking). And lockdown makes it so much worse as it is so more difficult to distract yourself.

I hope the love and support on here makes you feel a bit better @RuralBliss. Know we are all sending support for you and horrible vengeance for him through the ether!!!

Also this ... “I also find myself wondering 'How did this guy have such a long term years and years relationship before me but I'm not able to stay with him beyond 8 weeks....?”

Is exactly what I thought about Mr Beard. Exactly. And yet he betrayed his wife of 21 years in the most callous way imaginable. So actually, what was his relationship or any relationship to him? Or anyone? You never know what went on behind the scenes. I was also married for 21 years and I hated my ex for the last 7 at least

God relationships are hard! Am seriously reconsidering Fab!

@Newuser991 good luck with Mr Finland!

@cravingthelook - excellent boundaries! But also sorry he was a shit!