Dating Thread 196 - Winter Wonderland Walks

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

@ruralbliss ah yes it is a pain in the tits, I've had it before, a man on paper who seemed perfect for me. So much in common. So much fun together. But he was rude in a similar way to me once..didnt text for a few days to say thanks after leaving mine.when he finally texted I thought, you know what, I'm not a service industry..and that had to be that. Id actually, before he did this, suggested we just be freinds because I was no longer interested in casual relationships. And ya know what....he became more demonstrative, didn't want to just be freinds, and then he did it. And I thought, you tit. You could have got a freind and instead you got a shag and someone who isn't going to let you moan about your ex wife to her any more.

Pillocks @Ruralbliss!!

I text Mr long walk suggesting a post lock down date (actually used the word date) and he replied quickly again saying that pub sounded good but not setting a date..... any advice??

"When's good for you?"

@LongtimelurkerL Saturday lunchtime is my best slot does that work for you?

Thanks @HairyArsedMan and @Ruralbliss - I’m just not sure if I’m being a twit. Is he just not that into me

Hi all. I know this has been asked a million times and I’ll probably get a range of completely opposing views, but I need some perspective from those in similar situations...
I had a date on Sunday afternoon. I’d matched with him last weekend, and I sent the first message (which I normally never do). During the week we talked a bit on the app, then he suggested moving onto Whatsapp so we did. We then had a few messages in the week about weekend plans, I said I was going on a walk and he asked if I fancied a walking buddy (we’d been talking about the area I live in which he hasn’t been to before and wanted to see). All good, we arranged to meet at a cafe first to grab a takeaway coffee and go from there.
Anyway - the date was great, I thought. About 3.5 hours walk, talked the whole way, got on great, lots of common, he has no ex-wife or kids, last long relationship was 4/5 years ago and he’s had a couple of others since then but nothing “special” as he put it. At the end of the date I saw him off at the tube station - he went in for a hug and a kiss on the cheek, said he’d had a really good time and we both mentioned doing it again.
And then the inevitable - nothing. I’ve seen him online on WhatsApp a couple of times but haven’t been monitoring it at all. I know he works quite intense hours so goes to bed early in the week, and we weren’t texting loads before, but there had been contact every day (initiated by both of us depending on who had messaged last).
I’m so torn. Part of me thinks I should just message and say for him to let me know if he fancies meeting up again but no worries if not. But the majority of me, as an OLD veteran, knows that pretty much every guy I’ve dated in the past who’s been interested has messaged, usually the same night or at the least, the day after. Do I leave it and keep my pride? Or message and risk confirming what I think I already know - that he’s just not keen?

@Bunkbedpeople

Interesting discussion - I’m a born fixer (traumatic upbringing and martyr mother) and I’m therefore quite wary of a vulnerability in me to being MORE drawn to people in crisis.

I had to learn, it is allowed to look at dates not from the viewpoint of wanting an interaction in which true love or connection is shown through me being “unconditionally loyal” or “infinitely supportive”

but from a viewpoint of “what’s in it for me” emotionally or practically

I need someone with their shit together and who expects me to have my shit together, where I can regularly shag/go for dinner with/communicate with/ do wanky aspirational middle class shit like city breaks.

Not someone I need to rescue, or vice versa.

Someone with issues within the first early period of dating - whatever those are- isn’t going to provide me with that. So...

@Bunkbedpeople Thanks BB........that is a sensible viewpoint to have.........I’m guilty of not putting me/my needs first....So........

@Tafelberg not good

My guy whom I've written about on here as has "issues" when we met even he texted within 35 mins of saying good bye.

It's so rubbish

@Newuser991 it really is! Thanks though, that makes me think I probably am best not saying anything

@Ruralbliss are autistic people necessarily rude people??

@Bunkbedpeople - that mirrors latest advice from my counsellor in which much was made of the absolute requirement to both show up as 'healthy adults' in a relationship - and that once the trust is there that you can rely upon each other and know/respect each other as healthy functioning adults, it then feels safe over time to allow your 'vulnerable child' or 'wounded child' out. But those people who present very much as their vulnerable child, wanting/needing to be rescued (ahem, me in the past)... therapist says not only is this not a fair ask of another adult, but that you are likely to attract people who will latch onto this aspect of you and the two of you meld into a dysfunctional push/pull symbiosis.

Definitely much more healthy to come at it as you say, with both parties standing to gain something from each other, and otherwise pretty much having their shit together (on one level at least).

@Tafelberg I'd say the signs are not good. Of course there's always the chance that he's very very shy etc etc but I think there are two scenarios and they both lead to the same option (in my opinion) -
a) he's into you but shy >> do you really want to contact him because if it's this hard to get him to be forthcoming after just one date does it bode well for any future contact?
b) he's not into you >> you definitely don't want to contact him

I think lots of people find it very hard to send the 'thanks but no thanks' message and I know I do too... quite often we've both faltered after a date but it's been noticeable that contact has diminished and I think we've both drawn the same conclusion. I do hate it though when there was every sign that you both clicked and had a good time and THEN there's silence - there's something depressing about it, as though your intuition was off by thinking otherwise. I hope he makes contact but I think you'll be prolonging any angsting by getting in touch, weirdly.

@Tafelberg I would just message. At least you know then! You have nothing to lose

@TiggerDatter in my experience autistic people tend not to get or remember the rules of social niceties

@freelancedolly your reply makes a lot of sense to me - thank you. I think I’m struggling because I’d probably be saying the same as you to a friend of mine in this situation, but because I’m the one in it, it’s hard to take my own advice! I think I’m going to leave it. He didn’t strike me as shy in the least so that makes it even more likely that your second scenario is the one going on here.

@LongtimelurkerL I do know what you’re saying but I genuinely don’t know if I can bring myself to do it! If he doesn’t reply or I get a “thanks but no thanks” I think I’ll just wish I’d never bothered

@freelancedolly I'm tempted to print this out and put on my fridge/mirror. Excellent insights and advice from your therapist there. Thanks for sharing the wisdoms

Fair enough @Tafelberg I’d always rather know. Sometimes I get a response and sometimes I don’t but at least I know either way

In other news - he’s replied and said yes to my date. Wtaf men!!

[quote freelancedolly]**@Mayzee* @City754* - the reason I say that is because my last Tinder relationship ended with him saying exactly that kind of thing... in his case it was 'I can't sleep, I'm so stressed, I just need some space'. I tried the gentle occasional messages of support, and because I knew he genuinely WAS going through a really hard time (career implosion due to Covid as he is a professional musician), I kept saying to friends 'but the thing is, it's TRUE!' when they were doubting it. It dawned on me one day that because it's true is precisely the reason that he would give if he wanted me to leave him alone because he knew I knew that.

The more I tried to leave spaces between contact, the colder he got. I'd started off thinking 'oh no! Poor him! What can I do to make things easier?' - but eventually when he started to say he was SO stressed he couldn't even cope with a 5 minute call to 'close things off', I smelled a rat. Went back on Tinder and found his stupid mug staring back at me (about 5 profiles in, with 'recently active' showing ). FFS.

Aaanyway - clearly that was just what happened to me and may in no way be similar. But - I am a lot more wary now of the old 'I need space' line. Bottom line is, if it's meant to be, it will work out - and he will be desperately trying to park you in a way that means you'll wait for him, or will chase after you if you gently bow out. Either way I don't think you need to do any more contacting...

@Ruralbliss - I agree that it is plain rude not to make contact.[/quote]
@freelancedolly hmmm........yes I know what you mean the ‘I need some space due to x y z......’ is/can be an easy get out.......Just sucks.......

It does go back to that basic fundamental if they want you/are interested in you, you will know. Even with trauma/very difficult situations...........☹️

@Tafelberg don't worry, I would be absolutely fecking useless were I saying this to myself. It's so much easier when it's not you that's being talked about. I am honestly absolutely rubbish at all of this. The only thing I've learned is that in almost every case, if a man is into you, it's totally obvious that they are and they don't need to be coaxed into letting you know.

I've just started HRT (3 days in) and woke up feeling absolutely rubbish today. Full of paranoia that my new iron (6 weeks in) could just, at any moment, decide he's not into me. Of course this always remains the case, I don't know why it bothered me today. I think I find this whole process of starting a relationship like wading through an alligator filled swamp.

[quote Ruralbliss]@freelancedolly I'm tempted to print this out and put on my fridge/mirror. Excellent insights and advice from your therapist there. Thanks for sharing the wisdoms [/quote]
No worries - it's been really helpful to me after what has felt like a lifetime of dysfunctional relationships to have a therapist 'hand hold' my way through it this time round. I mentioned to him that I was tempted to go to Mr R for some reassurance after our 'last chance saloon' pre lockdown shag, because the day afterwards we had almost no contact and that was totally different to before it. (It was only the second time we'd had sex and I suddenly felt completely vulnerable and as though the whole thing was off.) Therapist urged me NOT to do that and said it was perfectly likely that he would be feeling weird too and to just get on with my life and NOT to take my wheedling neediness to Mr R so early on. It all turned out to be fine - of course this isn't always the case - but for me it's very difficult to keep my 'terrified of any rejection whatsoever' child out of the frame.

@freelancedolly yes, that’s been my philosophy about it too and I’m going to try to keep that in my head I think now. I know it’s only the fact he was the first person in a long time I’ve felt could be a potential really good/“healthy” match for me that is clouding my judgement and making me consider action I’d never normally contemplate.

And god I know that feeling so well (albeit without the HRT). It’s when you suddenly realise you’ve made yourself vulnerable to someone again I think. Must be even worse with all the added hormones in the mix. I really feel for you.

@LongtimelurkerL

Fair enough *@Tafelberg* I’d always rather know. Sometimes I get a response and sometimes I don’t but at least I know either way

The thing is though you often don't know after contacting them - it's like it scratches the itch for now, but it just prolongs that nagging worry that if you hadn't contacted them, would they have ever bothered? I am absolutely shit at remembering this at the time, but even if they reply there and then, it's just kicking the ball down the road until next time, or even perhaps not satisfying you in that moment - they could reply but with something inadequate, or they could not reply at all for days on end and you start obsessing about seeing them online on WhatsApp etc. It's a minefield!

[quote TiggerDatter]**@Mayzee* @City754* Mr Mad had health problems (horrible ones) at the beginning of 2019 and did the 'I need headspace, wanna be alone to recover' stuff. He was always sweet and polite about it, but didn't change his tune. For a couple of months I did the sweet and kind, tragic heroine friend bit, then I just thought 'eh, what's in this for me, now?', went on Fab and met Mr GN (non-exclusive FWB to start with, now a full-on DP). I saw Mr Mad a few more times but he basically wanted what we had at the start, just the fun. It was never going to move on because it couldn't. He had used his illness to put the brakes on me to try to keep me where it suited him - but it didn't suit me and I'm so glad I was badass about seeing that.

Your irons may be different to Mr Mad but to my mind, if you value someone you don't park them when you're having a crisis, you continue to respect and communicate clearly with them or you let them go completely. To do otherwise is disrespectful, and who wants someone like that?[/quote]
@TiggerDatter I’m living that exact ‘tragic heroine’ thing right now.......& it’s starting to/has been for a while make me feel like shit & sad......

Hmmmmm..........

Your last few lines really struck a cord.......as it’s true....

@freelancedolly I was about to write another reply to @LongtimelurkerL saying exactly that, that even if he did reply I’d then be worrying about whether he genuinely was interested and whether he’d have ever bothered if I hadn’t. I remember reading somewhere ages ago that in the early days of dating, a guy taking the initiative and making contact is one of the only ways you really have to gauge their level of interest. If you message first, you take that away. It’s shit, and sometimes feels antiquated and wrong, but it’s always rung true to me and I think I just unfortunately have to go with it this time.