Dating Thread 196 - Winter Wonderland Walks

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

@supercali77 great update! Mr A sounds like he's wanting it to work too.

[quote City754]@Onesmallstep67 Thanks for replying & I absolutely see where you are coming from............[/quote]
To provide the opposite perspective - my dad died in April. We were a month into lockdown, I'd not seen then-partner since mid March, I went over to my parents', dad died two days later, at home. So I saw him literally on his deathbed, held his hand after he'd died, helped mum with all the admin etc, had to hold it together to get through the horror that is dealing with a death in a lockdown while still trying to do a full time job (no compassionate leave etc as I was a contractor, but wfh at least so I could be there).
So many people to tell and deal with, so much to do. And my mum was potty, and difficult (emotionally exhausted), my siblings useless but extended family ghoulishly wanting constant updates.

Partner obviously felt neglected. I spoke to him at least once a day, more most days. But by June (which felt like a hot minute to me but was clearly a lifetime to him) he was getting sulky. I was still bubbled with my mum (partner sulked that I couldn't bubble with him), we were still in pandemic mode. I went home, having been at mum's about seven weeks, and he and I met for a few walks.

He sent me a text saying things weren't right and we needed to sort things out and I just didn't have the headspace for his nonsense right then, so I told him it was over.
In another month things would have been so much easier, I had ended the job so I had all the time in the world, the lockdown eased a bit, we could go out for a drink (though he wouldn't do that I don't think) mum was starting to work out how to cope on her own etc.
But no, he couldn't wait. He was sulking because we weren't a bubble ergo no shagging.

I mean, I saw him for what he was. But he cut off his nose to spite his face in a time when all I needed was space. But he had too much space.

@VanGoghsDog Thanks for your reply & I am so sorry about your dad, heartbreaking & difficult at any time, but as you say so much harder in a pandemic/lockdown. I hope you & your mum can start to heal a little.❤️

Your situation is very very similar to my friends tbh........ I fully understand he needs time & space just now & that a new relationship cannot possibly be a priority.

Where I am struggling though is I don’t actually know if he wants me to ‘wait’ can see an ‘’us’ in the future. Pre this he could, we had discussed it, ‘romantically’ & logistically.

As I’d said he’s not instigating any contact (for last month) but responds quickly everytime I send a ‘light supportive’ message.

So, my options are-

1. Don’t contact again (as maybe he doesn’t want me to but just cannot face that conversation just now).

1. Keep sending light supportive thinking of you messages every week or so.

1. Send kind loving closure message. Explaining that I know he needs time & space just now, but I’m here for him etc etc....

What do you think?

Your last sentence is so true & close to the bone........

@City754 - I think I would go with 3. Perhaps in a way that is not explicit about wanting closure (so not give him any further upset), but still let’s you draw a line under things. Looking at 3, you might have that covered.

If he meant the things he said before, his dad's situation will not have fundamentally changed that. It's just that he is stuck in the current trauma, where time moves in a different way and you have to do things you never envisaged.

If you think his withdrawal is showing a character you don't like, send 3. If you can tell yourself this isn't about you, and step back, but do still believe the relationship is there, send 2.

My ex obviously thought my inability to communicate was a reflection on our relationship, but it wasn't. Though it was a bit different in that our contact didn't really stop, though it did reduce a bit (I found him overbearing to be honest, wanting to speak to me three times a day) and neither of us initiated any more than the other I don't think, I was pretty careful about that.

Sorry to see so many dealing with the guessing game that is old 😖

I took a break after being messed about by last few irons but got bored and swiped again. Matched with an iron that was passing my city for work however despite his living 130 miles away we continued to chat. He seemed nice and after chatting for a week we were planning on meeting next weekend however I started to feel he was too intense for me and it started to come off as love bombing given his keeness to upheave his life etc if it were to work out especially as we hadn't even met. He was starting to take up all my freetime with calls and facetimes and messages of adoration so my gut was telling me to run. So I sent a nice message yesterday saying I didn't think we were compatible after all and didn't want to meet. Received a message saying hed struggle to get over me 🤦‍♀️ and a phone call trying to change my mind but I remained firm. Then recieved a vm and call asking that i don't block him. I've only ever blocked one person so thought it strange. However a few hours later I get a message asking if I'm around - and a Google location showing he'd jumped in his car and driven up to my city and wanted to meet at the motorway exit (he did not know where I live luckily) 😱 I replied sorry no and then got a barrage of messages along lines of I was a game player etc so I had to block. I'm so glad I trusted my gut on this one 🤦‍♀️

@Slothmomma that is actually quite scary! Thank God you hadn't been specific about where you live.

I've come across a couple of men that have been way too intense way too quickly, even when I have said I felt overwhelmed. I was worried that the first one might turn to stalking when I said thanks but no thanks, but luckily he disappeared. I've now got another one who sends me endless emails with far too much information and I'm going to have to stop that also.

What's with the extremes?! Either no communication or unsolicited oversharing. Where are the normal men? Or are there only three left, and they are all on this thread...

Yes wewantthrfinestwines it made me feel a bit sick and going over what we'd talked about to make sure I hadn't given any information away etc that could lead him closer to my home given I was going to have to go out for school runs etc and he did know my type of car which isn't particularly bog standard. He's the second crazy now out of last 5 irons id say and the others were time wasters. I'm not holding out any hope of finding a decent match on the apps 🤦‍♀️

Blimey @Slothmomma that really is scary and yes I def agree on the lack of normal men @WeWantTheFinestWines.....I literally said the same thing to my friends yesterday. Very bizarre......I do think it's the sweet shop thing more for men than it is women. I've lots of lovely, successful, gorgeous friends (female) who can't seem to find a boyfriend and all my male friends who want one can seemingly get it easily

@VanGoghsDog sorry to hear about your Dad - an awful thing to deal with, even more so this year.

@City754 it sounds like your guy is having a very rough time. If you're not sure yet about whether you do want final closure, then how about writing out a message but not sending it? I sometimes find that helps me work out my thoughts, and just the act of typing out a draft text helps clarify things in my mind.

@Slothmomma that is rather scary! And it makes me sad that some guys are like that, as they make it harder for the (more) normal ones out there to be trusted or seen as genuine.

@WeWantTheFinestWines and @LongtimelurkerL maybe I'm not as normal as I think then, as I'm struggling!

What I hate about option 2 (staying in low contact) is that it makes me feel as though I am bothering them and reminding them I exist

Then I dont have the right to say they led me on as I kept in touch with them.

@City754 I'm going to go against the flow and say option 1. He knows you are there for him, you've told him already and he will be clear how you feel. I would mentally try to act as though you've sent him the loving closure message without actually sending it as there isn't really any need and it sounds like a flounce (no matter how gentle or kind it is, nor how non flouncy you intend it to be).

I'd get back on the apps, do as has been directed on these threads before and accept that that will feel miserable for a while, and resolve to maybe send him a message in a month's time or wait to see if he contacts you. Ultimately the only person pushing the other away here is him and I think if you are to stand any chance of anything succeeding through this he has to see you as enough of a prize that you are going to tell him you sympathise - as you have done - but then are cracking on with your own life, as anyone who is a prize would do. (Which you are.)

The very painful thing here and with any situation where the iron says 'I need space' because of family issues, mental health, money worries, etc is that not only is that the reason given in totally genuine situations, but it's a very easy thing to say to someone to get them to leave you alone without actually having to tell them that you don't want to carry on.

I have been on and off the dating sites now for so long, left all but Tinder and I'm still on fab (as I post on the forums etc).
Matched with someone on Tinder a few days ago, he comes across well but mentioned sexual references a few times so I put him straight that I was looking for more than a hookup, and it was nothing that offended me or put me off straight away so carried on chatting.
Anyway, some more chat and we realise we are both on fab, so now he's seen all my pics on there
We've arranged a socially distanced date this weekend, and I'm not sure if this is now a date or a fab social! It seems to have muddied the waters a little bit, though he is being thoroughly lovely and not making too many sexual innuendos...
I'm going to call him Mr Spark.

@supercali77

This:

"@Ruralbliss honestly, is this what you want? Spend a weekend with a man and then he doesnt even say thanks for making the effort. Is a warm body worth a lack of basic courtesy? I have no patience for that kind of shit 😂"

is SOLID GOLD comment.

Thanks for wobbling my head I needed that.

His hotness, tallness, coolness, wealth ffs are seriously clouding my judgement...

Now reminding myself of my standards and my worth and how being treated like shite is not a great thing at this stage in the proceedings and is very unlikely to get any better.

Bugger. That's a darn shame.

Sabbatical it is then. Or further swiping now lockdown end is in sight as won't entertain the idea of not meeting very soon after initial match/message/phone - it's my new way and it works.

Still aren't we all lucky to have OLD imagine it was as it was in the olden days. I'd have zero hope of meeting men anc thankful for all the good times I've had so far - je ne regret rien!

Ffs. Just recalling the number of heady moments on recent sleepovers with STBX Iron (😂) where I felt I'd met my male twin.
As I've mentioned before a whole load of fundamental shit I've never found in another person before (well one of my long term girlfriends but that's it).

But if he didn't feel the same it don't count for shit does it.

Ffs.

[quote DudefromThatLondon]@City754 - I think I would go with 3. Perhaps in a way that is not explicit about wanting closure (so not give him any further upset), but still let’s you draw a line under things. Looking at 3, you might have that covered.[/quote]
@DudefromThatLondon Thanks for reply, yes it’s the drawing a line I need......as as much as I really like him & fully sympathise..... this is awful for me.

@TheCatWithTheHat, thanks I’ve already wrote the message! Just the angst on wether to send or not.........

@freelancedolly the truth -and you like an uncaring knob if you question it

The very painful thing here and with any situation where the iron says 'I need space' because of family issues, mental health, money worries, etc is that not only is that the reason given in totally genuine situations, but it's a very easy thing to say to someone to get them to leave you alone without actually having to tell them that you don't want to carry on
My gut tells me this what’s happening to me.

[quote freelancedolly]**@City754* I'm going to go against the flow and say option 1. He knows* you are there for him, you've told him already and he will be clear how you feel. I would mentally try to act as though you've sent him the loving closure message without actually sending it as there isn't really any need and it sounds like a flounce (no matter how gentle or kind it is, nor how non flouncy you intend it to be).

I'd get back on the apps, do as has been directed on these threads before and accept that that will feel miserable for a while, and resolve to maybe send him a message in a month's time or wait to see if he contacts you. Ultimately the only person pushing the other away here is him and I think if you are to stand any chance of anything succeeding through this he has to see you as enough of a prize that you are going to tell him you sympathise - as you have done - but then are cracking on with your own life, as anyone who is a prize would do. (Which you are.)

The very painful thing here and with any situation where the iron says 'I need space' because of family issues, mental health, money worries, etc is that not only is that the reason given in totally genuine situations, but it's a very easy thing to say to someone to get them to leave you alone without actually having to tell them that you don't want to carry on.[/quote]
@freelancedolly Thanks for your reply -I’ve read it a couple of times & it makes perfect sense tbh..........You are right he does already know how I feel & I hadn’t considered the ‘kind closure’ message could come across as flouncy, but I can actually see how it might do that.....My friend gave me exact same advice, no message & get on with my life & he may get back in touch, or not. Thank you, you’ve given me a bit of a reminder not ‘to chase etc etc’ & yes sadly people can ‘use’ situations to end things without the angst........I do still think he is a very decent genuine human being, but I’m also aware feelings people change etc etc. Thanks again tho for ‘mental but kick’

Interesting discussion - I’m a born fixer (traumatic upbringing and martyr mother) and I’m therefore quite wary of a vulnerability in me to being MORE drawn to people in crisis.

I had to learn, it is allowed to look at dates not from the viewpoint of wanting an interaction in which true love or connection is shown through me being “unconditionally loyal” or “infinitely supportive”

but from a viewpoint of “what’s in it for me” emotionally or practically

I need someone with their shit together and who expects me to have my shit together, where I can regularly shag/go for dinner with/communicate with/ do wanky aspirational middle class shit like city breaks.

Not someone I need to rescue, or vice versa.

Someone with issues within the first early period of dating - whatever those are- isn’t going to provide me with that. So...

@Mayzee @City754 - the reason I say that is because my last Tinder relationship ended with him saying exactly that kind of thing... in his case it was 'I can't sleep, I'm so stressed, I just need some space'. I tried the gentle occasional messages of support, and because I knew he genuinely WAS going through a really hard time (career implosion due to Covid as he is a professional musician), I kept saying to friends 'but the thing is, it's TRUE!' when they were doubting it. It dawned on me one day that because it's true is precisely the reason that he would give if he wanted me to leave him alone because he knew I knew that.

The more I tried to leave spaces between contact, the colder he got. I'd started off thinking 'oh no! Poor him! What can I do to make things easier?' - but eventually when he started to say he was SO stressed he couldn't even cope with a 5 minute call to 'close things off', I smelled a rat. Went back on Tinder and found his stupid mug staring back at me (about 5 profiles in, with 'recently active' showing ). FFS.

Aaanyway - clearly that was just what happened to me and may in no way be similar. But - I am a lot more wary now of the old 'I need space' line. Bottom line is, if it's meant to be, it will work out - and he will be desperately trying to park you in a way that means you'll wait for him, or will chase after you if you gently bow out. Either way I don't think you need to do any more contacting...

@Ruralbliss - I agree that it is plain rude not to make contact.

Absolutely, @Bunkbedpeople! If there's one thing I've learned during all the effective single parenthood/divorce/OLD shit of my last 20 years, it's to always ask 'What's in it for me?' Because you know what - most (ok, not quite all) men seem to have learnt, from the year dot, to live by that question, relying on women to magically pick up the pieces. No more.

@Mayzee @City754 Mr Mad had health problems (horrible ones) at the beginning of 2019 and did the 'I need headspace, wanna be alone to recover' stuff. He was always sweet and polite about it, but didn't change his tune. For a couple of months I did the sweet and kind, tragic heroine friend bit, then I just thought 'eh, what's in this for me, now?', went on Fab and met Mr GN (non-exclusive FWB to start with, now a full-on DP). I saw Mr Mad a few more times but he basically wanted what we had at the start, just the fun. It was never going to move on because it couldn't. He had used his illness to put the brakes on me to try to keep me where it suited him - but it didn't suit me and I'm so glad I was badass about seeing that.

Your irons may be different to Mr Mad but to my mind, if you value someone you don't park them when you're having a crisis, you continue to respect and communicate clearly with them or you let them go completely. To do otherwise is disrespectful, and who wants someone like that?

@TiggerDatter yes that’s how I see it. I feel like once we get word that lockdown is easing Mr German may get in touch looking to meet but it will be like date 1 or 2 again me wondering if there will be another date or where I stand and afraid to ‘pressure’ because he’s so stressed 😩
I’m not messaging again and if/when he does I will decide what’s best to do for me.
I have a coffee date planned for the weekend so I may be otherwise engaged by then

Yes @freelancedolly rude!

On the other hand I have wondered if he might be in the autistic spectrum from the get-go.

Time will tell.