Friend and my DH

[BananasAreEvil1]

I feel a bit silly for posting and have NC for it. Full disclosure for a number of reasons I don't have great self esteem at the moment and feel more than a little insecure (I'm working on this) so I can't tell if I'm being paranoid or not.

I have a friend let's call her Mary. She has been my friend for many years before I met DH. Our lives are very different from each other and we're very different and although we speak regularly we don't see each other more than a few times a year. Mary and my DH aren't friends. They're polite to each other but I know they don't rate the other so my relationships are kept separate.

A few weeks ago Mary and I were doing an activity together. DH dropped me off and got out of the car with our DC to say hello to Mary.

Mary commented about how much weight DH had lost and how he looked very different from the last time she saw him around 18 months ago. DH said thanks and we went on our way.

However Mary spent the several hours at the activity talking about DH, how good he looked, how she could tell he had been working out, how his clothing looked against his muscles etc.

I laughed it off and said several times ok ok can we stop talking about my DH. Mary has never commented on DH appearance before and I know previously he wasn't her type, however he probably is more her type now that he's made massive lifestyle changes and is at peak fitness.

The conversation kept being brought round to my DH by Mary and I became very uncomfortable but just didn't know how to address it.

When DH came to collect me Mary made a beeline for the car and opened his door to make small talk again something that's never happened before.

Since then Mary has brought up DH in most calls or messages, asking how he is what he's doing etc. All unusual for Mary.

DH has today called from work to tell me that Mary has added him on social media. He isn't aware of the comments so was puzzled. Mary also very rarely uses social media. Mary has since messaged DH on social media asking if he can give advice on what to get me for Christmas.

The increased attention from Mary towards DH makes me feel very uncomfortable and I don't know if I'm silly for feeling like this and should just let it go and try to get feelings of being uncomfortable out of my head and be grateful that it seems Mary haw thawed towards DH.

So can I put it to the MN jury?

She feels seen OP, as well she should. I particularly don't like the 'you're always so paranoid' comment, good friends don't undermine you like that. Glad you and your DH are a team on this.

Her second message screams “me thinks the lady doth protest too much”.

At no point did your message even hint you were annoyed or concerned she was messaging DP specifically, just confused as she doesn’t used social media. It’s a very immature and panicked response, like when a liar tries to cover up a lie with loads of details, her 2nd message is blatant protecting her intention. She even said “it’s about time I made an effort with DP” why only now he’s upped his physical appearance, why not when her best mate was marrying the bloke, or when her best mate was having kids with the bloke? Bah, bin this bitch off. She knows what she’s doing. You know what she’s doing. 🐍🐍

I find her response a bit passive aggressive – perhaps she was a bit hurt or taken aback (being generous) or perhaps that righteous indignation that people adopt when they’ve been called out but either way very defensive.

She's really not your friend.

Your husband appears to have the measure of her.

Lots of little digs at you in tbose messages, which I think were very carefully crafted by her.

She's probably a bit surprised at you actually mentioning it and is pissed off.

I think just pulling way back. Life is busy.
Just don't be available.

Life's just too short to be spending time that aren't really friends.

@Spied

"Mary, DH told me you've been messaging him and after all this time of knowing him we were wondering why. We actually had a bit of a laugh saying you must fancy him haha. He was mortified haha.."

This ☝️

You didn't overreact. You called her on her behaviour and she didn't expect it. She had no other way to justify her behaviour.
Hopefully you have nipped it in the bud.

translation, she expected you to be a doormat and your DHY easy pickings. She's pissed off neither is the case and is projecting massively because you're message didn't sound upset at all, but she knows her behaviour warrants it.

tell her to donate the gifts and you'll see her in then ew year, you want to spend the close of this year with your family.

She is not your friend. Don't doubt yourself.

You didn’t read any of this wrong, her reply was screaming at you that she knew you were on to her, note she said to “see you all” for gift exchange

And make an effort now? After all these years? And coincidentally it coincides with your h dropping loads of weight and being more physically attractive to her

If it quacks like a fucking duck, it’s a fucking duck!

I also doubt sincerely that she has the kids gifts already.

You’re being played, and she’s realised you know what her game is.

At no point in your message did you show the annoyance she’s talking about - that proves she knows exactly what she was doing, she just thought you’d not challenge her.

I would put all the distance in the world between her and me if I were you (and I know you’re not :) )

I’m sure your kids have got lots of presents coming their way, a few less won’t scar them for life.

I’d not chase any meeting up, in fact, I’d dodge it and send her gifts by delivery in the next few weeks removing the need for a meet up

Blah blah, kids are huge virus risk at best of times, trying not to do exposure to others unless absolutely critical etc etc...

Lots of little digs at you in tbose messages, which I think were very carefully crafted by her.

Absolutely agree with this

She knows that both you and your dh know that she was making a play for him, her ego is bruised that he's ignored her advances and that you're not going to enable her. She's feeling like an idiot thinking you're both laughing at her.

She's trying to guilt trip and gaslight you to save face for herself and to keep you as a "friend".

You know what she did. You saw it with your own eyes. You know her intentions. Don't listen to her rewriting of her very clear intentions. She's just trying to manipulate you. Don't feel bad, if she had her way, she'd be having an affair with your husband right now.

I wouldn't even respond. She doesn't have any positive intentions towards you or your kids so ignore her manipulation.

Your husband sounds lovely and a good judge of character.

I haven't responded yet and I'm not sure I'm going to, if I do it will be something non-committal.

Mary does buy the DC something for Xmas but it's usually a token gift, she's never really been bothered about my DC. Occasionally she will make all the correct sounds about not seeing them but she doesn't ask after them or make the effort to see them. For example if she moans about not seeing them I'll suggest doing something child friendly and she will complain.

I get it she doesn't have kids and doesn't want to go to family restaurants or softplay but equally my DC are young and won't sit nicely for long periods in a more grown up restaurant or be trailed around shops so I tend to always just do things with me and Mary to avoid the moaning or hassle and as a result DC don't actually ask after her unless I happen to mention her in front of them. They also don't usually get their gift from her until way after Christmas so always forget about it so they never expect it.

They're too young but also well mannered enough to know that you shouldn't expect to get a gift and that it's a lovely surprise if you do.

She has picked up and played on alot of my insecurities in her messages to me which were subtle enough that I didn't note it until some posters on here pointed them out and now it's annoyed me that she's used things about me to attempt to make me feel guilty and initially was very successful with it.

I'm a people pleaser and I don't have great boundaries stemming back to my abusive childhood and she knows this, so no I don't believe she expected me to mention her messaging DH at all and it's surprised her that I have.

The irony of it all is that I have a job that requires me to be really assertive and blunt and I'm excellent at that role but translating that to real life and I'm absolutely jelly thinking of it

I would reply to her 'which part of my message gave you the impression I was annoyed?'

Don't doubt yourself anyway OP, it was clear to you and to everyone on this thread what she was doing and she's trying to convince you now that you're paranoid. Even the fact that she's doing that when your message to her wasn't accusing her of anything may as well be her admitting it because if she'd meant nothing by messaging your DH, she wouldn't assume you were pissed off

It's good you came here with this. Posters don't know any of you, and are therefore not emotionally involved. - and we see straight through her PA messaging shit.

Now through this thread, you do too.

I would love to have seen her face when she got your message!

I wouldn’t meet up with manipulative Mary at all for any reason. Why would you? She wants to destabilize your family.

I generally have the view that no friendship is perfect, you should look at the big picture and let things slide if the good outweighs the bad but this really really is not sitting well with me.

She is trying to turn it around on you. She's calling you paranoid (albeit about a different topic), she's persisting with the meetup and the huffy "won't bother" tantrum.

Look she was being inappropriate, you tackled it directly which she didn't expect and now she feels foolish and is embarrassed and defensive.

If that's as far as it goes (she doesn't make trouble giving mutual friends a skewed version or making jokes at your expense) I would not call off the friendship but I would take this space now.

If she's not used to you calling her out on things she won't be comfortable with the change (we all hate change) so it might just be an adjustment phase. But do not back down or let her convince you that you overreacted. You reacted exactly the right amount.

I have had a tricky situation with a friend, lots of similarities with yours. I don't wanna hijack the thread so let me know if you want me to elaborate. I didn't want to end the friendship but I did not like what was happening.

The message reply was quite nasty but juuuust subtle enough for her to indignantly insist "that's not what I meant" if you tried to call her out. Ugh.

Reminds me very much of a "friend" of mine from uni. I'd invited her to stay after my boyfriend and I moved in to our own place together, said any weekend except x when I'd be away at a trade fair. She ummed and aaahed. Finally on the Friday I was supposed to be away she phoned BF on home phone and did a damsel in distress routine. Oh, she's just remembered something she just HAD to do in our town, could she possibly come and stay a couple of nights? He agreed out of baffled politeness. In fact my boss hadn't needed me for the trade fair so I hadn't gone anywhere.

I figured out straight away. "Friend" was very pretty and it was something she would show off about - that she could get/ tempt any man. Most of the time she wasn't actually interested in the man, she just liked the feeling of power that they'd stay flirting back with her and annoy their girlfriend.

She was clearly shocked and put out when she turned up and I was there. I challenged her on what she was playing at and she came out with the same sort of lines as "Mary" - "you're paranoid/ your nose has been put out of joint because you don't trust your boyfriend/not MY fault" (rolled her eyes). Completely unapologetic and belittling. I did trust BF but I couldn't believe she'd played her favourite "game" on me, knowing i would know what she was doing. We're no longer friends. Who needs friends like that?

The big clue is her tripping up by spontaneously rambling on about suddenly chatting / seeing some bloke online - unprompted - when she hasn’t done this for years ..... sounds like a made up story - totally irrelevant to your text - likely smokescreen - tells you that she has been exposed is trying to cover up.

She was banking on you not saying anything/your DH not telling you and as it hasn't gone how she expected she has dedlected it conpletely back onto you. She's full of shit and not a friend.

Out of interest, what is your DH's list of things that he doesn't like about her? I reckon he's always seen through her and you have been completely blind.

@Fudgsicles DH feels she isn't a great friend and is only interested in me when she has problems she wants to vent about, that she doesn't really ask how I am and isn't always there for me when she should be unless there's something in it for her. For example she was there when DH and I were having issues and talking separation but she was also having issues with her boyfriend so had a constant shoulder to cry on and console her.

When she is there for me it's with an ulterior motive such as suggesting we go out to cheer me up which turns into going to a club which isn't my scene but is Mary's.

She wasn't around when I was pregnant with DC or they were born and I was poorly because she was all consumed by her boyfriend.

I've always made excuses and defended Mary to DH but he does have a point.

DH also doesn't like the fact that Mary suggests to mutual friends that DH is the reason she doesn't see me as much or I don't want to go out partying. DH isn't the reason, he's never once told me not to go out in fact he encourages me to go out more but clubbing and pub crawls just aren't my scene and I'm tired from work pressures and DC and don't have the energy or time to go out a lot

Reply:

"Oh I'm not annoyed or paranoid

( makes it clear you're not accepting her gaslighting.)

Pop the children's gifts in the post .

Glad you like the donation idea."

And the leave it at that . She is not your friend . She's overstepped the mark . She has changed the relationship. She is not trustworthy .

Wow! Mary certainly did not bank on your DH and you having such an open, close and communicative relationship. Her schnozzle is so obviously out of joint that he not only told you and refused to be made an accessory to her going behind your back and sneaking around but also that he is rebuffing her advances. Her ego is bruised and she is trying to turn this around on you. Her assumption that you are annoyed is extremely telling. She knows she is way out of line and tried to be sneaky. Others are spot on about her trying to gaslight you. She sounds really rather toxic and narcissistic. And how fecking patronising can she get about you, poor lil dowdy wifey who never spoils herself…! That actually is another dig. She obviously doesn’t get that this isn’t so much about you being denied luxuries but as a mother, your priorities change. I think now you are more honest to yourself about her not being a particularly good friend, completely aside of her trying to go after your man, there is no going back. OP doesn’t need to spell it out to Mary like some suggested. It is so much more satisfying and effective that Op’s DH has blocked those advances. That way OP retains her dignity, upper hand and full control of the situation. Now you know what a poisonous cuntywanker Mary really is, you can phase her out, without any drama. She never got her ego boost and instead got a clear signal that she has been flatly turned down. That’s a far more satisfying outcome. Maybe donate to some animal charity that spays stray bitches in her name…

You shouldn't feel bad. This is how these people work. It doesn't have to be a female. It could be a male sibling or anyone who is trying to manipulate you. The gift excuse is a common one.
Don't reply to her anymore. This is the end. If she knocks, ignore her. If she leaves gifts, that's her choice but you don't want them for you or your children. You don't need to thank her. She will still try as she said she wants to see you all. No that's your husband she wants to see and the gifts is a mega gesture but really has a cunning plan. Just write it off now.

'There's something about Mary'

and it's not good!

Morals of an alleycat, not up to your standard, remove from your life and don.t feel guilty.

Mary is a frenemy. You don't actually need her in your life. You can feel sentimental about your history with Mary but she wasn't who you thought she was. No need to feel guilty.