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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

464 replies

IGJ10 · 16/11/2020 15:25

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

OP posts:
mineofuselessinformation · 17/11/2020 20:30

Have you asked him directly if he still loves you?
My XH had at minimum an emotional affair, and when put on the spot could only say he still 'had feelings' for me. That was enough for me to end it, as much as I loved him.
Anyway, that's my experience, but for anyone, I do know this:
Living with someone who you know doesn't feel the same way about you as you do about them is ultimately very damaging - it makes you question yourself, walk on eggshells and just feel generally miserable - you can end up feeling you are not good enough, when you're not at fault.
It's no way to live.

Tistheseason17 · 17/11/2020 20:38

OP, please stop lowering your self worth to meet this low level twunt of a man.
Stop wasting your life on a man who is not sure about you. I expetienced the "pick me, manchild situ" and it was hard to admit defeat but my God, the next man I dated, I knew exactly what I deserved and did not settle for anything less - mutual love, respect and best friends

CanofCant · 17/11/2020 21:15

MsTSwift

"Never met this man but I can’t bloody stand him"

God, I know. I've just read this thread in one go and he sounds like an insufferable, pathetic cliche.

OP, I hope you are finding your anger and feel strong enough soon to disentangle yourself from this feckless cheat.

MushMonster · 17/11/2020 21:20

@MsTSwift

Never met this man but I can’t bloody stand him
I know. I am ashamed to say I started thinking it was something that could be sorted, and he was struggling with something in his life for real. But he keeps digging at her. Shame on him.
drinkstoomuchwine · 17/11/2020 21:39

Oh come on OP - find your backbone!!!

Enough4me · 17/11/2020 22:16

LTB

EarthSight · 17/11/2020 22:42

On my 'most likely to cheat' list, 'people with bad self esteem' is at the top somewhere. It's just bad news to me. They flirt, they love the attention, it's confirmation that they are worthy in some way, and it leads to trouble. Also be wary of men with lots of female friends. I am open to changing my mind on this, but in my experience men don't cultivate lots of female friends unless they are hoping one day there will be something more to these 'friendships'.

No wonder you feel down about your situation Flowers

IGJ10 · 17/11/2020 23:21

Again, thank you all for your opinions. I'm sorry this is such a late message, it's been a long day at work.

Today has been interesting. He reiterated that he loves me and is confused about his feelings for OW (is that the right abbreviation?) I said that I believe he has fallen in love with her and that there is no onus on me to stick around while he figures it out. He said he doesn't know what he feels but doesn't think he's fallen for her. He suggested that it mightn't have happened if our relationship had been stronger. I said he made it happen and this upset him as he feels blame is not the way forward (even I find this statement beggars belief). I said I believe he has emotionally cheated on me and he said he does not believe he has cheated - and in any case why would it matter if he had when he has no intentions of sleeping with her. I had to explain to him that I don't believe in polyamory and that I deserve his full love and attention. I said I know he told me he can be flirty but that I never expected this extent and I feel betrayed. He said that no one can help who they might fall for. I disagreed - you can. He said he can't control his feelings. I said he can if he loves me. He said he loves me but I shouldn't try to change him. I said fine, I'm not trying to change you. But I won't stick around to watch you falling for every young girl who bats her eyes at you and be wondering if you're going to leave me every time - I said I'd run away as fast as I can. This upset him. He wants time to process... Not bad for a spineless wonder! Thank you all

OP posts:
TwentyViginti · 17/11/2020 23:32

He wants time to process..

He wants time to figure out how to change tack to get you to fall for more of his crap.

He gets upset a lot when you call him out on his twattery doesn't he?

Well done for sticking up for yourself, and not rushing in to mummy him better. Must be a shock for him!

You need to follow through, OP. He's clearly still slavering after young Miss Batlashes.

PickAChew · 17/11/2020 23:35

Keep up with the assertiveness. He basically just means that he wants you to shut up and leave him alone, when he claims to want time to process things. Please don't shut up.

BarcelonaFreddie · 17/11/2020 23:39

OP - you are catching on quick and fast.
You are beginning to really 'see' him.
None of this is your fault. Not one tiny piece of it.
He can't help his feelings? Is he thirteen.
You are married and he is showing zero respect for that.
This is all so much for you to take in; and I don't expect that you will make any fast or decisive decisions.
Honestly... it's not you - it's him.
Please don't waste your time with counselling. And please, if you do want children in your future then move on sooner rather than later.
Don't let this man rob you of a family and happiness whilst he hums and haws about how much he does or doesn't love his wife of a mere two years.

mineofuselessinformation · 17/11/2020 23:40

'He suggested that it mightn't have happened if our relationship had been stronger.'
It's very easy to counter that with if his love for you had been stronger he wouldn't have even considered it in the first place.
'He wants time to process'. No he bloody doesn't, he wants time to get even more into your head to make you wonder what you did wrong.
It sounds like you're on the right track now, and getting wise to his mind games - good for you.

Enough4me · 17/11/2020 23:48

Poor little man-child needing time to process words. You have far more patience than me OP, but he knows this too. He can keep his cake & eat it stability and work on her. Overlap the pair of you and move on as "she understands me more".

I mean this to give you a wake up call, not to be cruel.

Needhelp101 · 17/11/2020 23:53

@WhereYouLeftIt

^''But he also feels our love has been superficial at the same time.'' A bit of projection on his part here, where a person attributes to someone else what they themselves are thinking or feeling. He's making you think your love seemed superficial to him, when actually he's admitting to loving you superficially. He really is a manipulative little fucker!
Ha! This rang a bell. My ex-husband (serial, manipulative cheat) just wouldn't believe that I hadn't lied to him about something fairly serious - I hadn't.

Because habitual liars think everyone lies. As @WhereYouLeftIt says, it's projection (hence also why cheaters often accuse their partners of cheating themselves).

OP, I urge you to read the Chumplady website and read her book, it'll explain a LOT of things, particularly the link on The Unified Theory of Cake www.chumplady.com

TwentyViginti · 17/11/2020 23:57

@WizardOfAus

We’re 12 pages in & not one person has suggested staying with this fucking idiot, because EVERYONE can see through him.

Joint counselling won’t work because (as someone mentioned above) he’s a fucking “cake eater.” Neatly define by Chump Lady as:

“Cake eaters act vague. They need time. They appeal to you for patience. They feel very, very sorry for themselves. They’ll assert that they’re trying very hard to appease you (they’re not, but they may throw you a bone like marriage counseling, or sex, or paying attention to their children). Cake eaters are defensive and ‘confused’ when you question their commitment or the sincerity of their remorse. They really just want you to leave them alone and let them get back to the business of eating cake.”

Sound familiar?

In case you missed this OP.

It's him to a tee, isn't it?

Needhelp101 · 18/11/2020 00:01

Sorry, missed the other posters quoting Chumplady's brilliant cake theory.

IdblowJonSnow · 18/11/2020 00:07

Oh god let him go OP.
Even if he decides to 'pick' you, you'll be putting up with this shit forever more only you'll have kids and be stuck with him.
With that track record he's not going to change.
And the cheek of him saying if the marriage was stronger bullshit. Angry

Chocaholic9 · 18/11/2020 04:20

Well done OP for confronting him on his crap. You did well.

Chocaholic9 · 18/11/2020 04:27

I had a look at Chump lady's website and the theory of cake

www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-unified-theory-of-cake/

I noticed this paragraph:

Cake eaters act vague. They need time. They appeal to you for patience. They feel very, very sorry for themselves. They’ll assert that they’re trying very hard to appease you (they’re not, but they may throw you a bone like marriage counseling, or sex, or paying attention to their children), but you’re soooo unreasonable with your demands. Cake eaters are defensive when you question their commitment or the sincerity of their remorse. They really just want you to leave them alone and let them get back to the business of eating cake.

It's very much how OP's partner is playing it. He needs time. He's defensive. He's suggesting marriage counselling when he's the problem.

Chocaholic9 · 18/11/2020 04:28

Oops, just saw I re-posted what was already posted above. Sorry for the repetition.

Rangoon · 18/11/2020 05:35

Never have I felt less Anglo-Saxon because what I am feeling is utter rage on your behalf. He asks you to marry him I presume and he skips over the forsaking all others bit in the marriage and then tries to persuade you that there is something wrong with your relationship which has led him to cheat because he has low self esteem about being good enough for you which he somehow deals with by being inappropriate with other women. How are you not having fantasies involving a weed whacker at this very moment? (Obviously only fantasies as he is not worth spending a moment in custody for.) He's trying to keep you on the backburner so if the latest one doesn't work out he can go back to old faithful while sniffing around for somebody new. He is absolutely toxic and you should run as fast and as far as you are able after serving divorce papers.

mathanxiety · 18/11/2020 06:29

He said he loves me but I shouldn't try to change him.
This is who he is.
He loves you BUT...
He loves you... but he wants you to judge him by his intentions, not his actual behaviour. This is narcissism.
He loves you... but he has no intention of honouring any promises he made to you. Words are cheap.

Counseling (and promises of reform, and showing you his phone, and protestations of 'love') are all basically a way of keeping a roof over his head while he continues to play games with you and other women.

He isn't indecisive. He is doing exactly what he wants to do, in plain sight.

Your relationship is dead because your H wants to flirt and cheat with other women and flaunt it.
He doesn't like women. He doesn't respect women. He is probably quite angry with women in general. You are not going to change that.

Do you want to waste thirty years of your life 'supporting' him while he sticks your nose in his contempt for you? Do you want to waste thirty minutes of your life even considering that?

RantyAnty · 18/11/2020 06:32

OP, well done!
You called him out and stood up for yourself so well.

Expect him to be flipping between the channels to try to get you back in line.

www.chumplady.com/2017/09/mindfuck-three-channels/

Badwill · 18/11/2020 06:33

Sweet lord your last post Angry what an absolute dickhead you're married to OP. I can't believe he's saying these things to you. I can't even imagine my husband going on like that about another woman and then thinking he has the right to get "upset"?! I really, REALLY think you will do irreparable damage to your self esteem if you continue to stay with this prick of a man.

I hope you find the strength to leave Flowers you deserve much, much better.

Fefifofaff · 18/11/2020 06:51

Good for you OP for taking the comments on board and not hiding your head in the sand. You deserve so much better than this.

Really, anyone does - what would you say to a friend who was telling you this story about their husband? You'd be appalled. So why do you have lower standards for yourself?