My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

[IGJ10]

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

[quote IGJ10]@ravenmum
Today he said that he feels conflicting emotions at the same time about me. He said he’s in love with me and can’t bear to not be with me. But he also feels our love has been superficial at the same time. He said he on the one hand feels we should break up and on the other wants to build a future with me. I pressed him about his young coworker and he got upset. He then said he feels ‘confused’ about his feelings towards her. And he thinks if our relationship had been good he wouldn’t have been in the headspace to ‘latch’ onto her. He feels we lack direction as a couple, despite the fact we had been looking to buy a house and considering starting a family.[/quote]
How can you bear the dithering twat? He's telling you it's partly your fault he sleazes on other women.

I pressed him about his young coworker and he got upset. He then said he feels ‘confused’ about his feelings towards her.

HE got upset? FFS OP, you need to take control here. He wants to shag her, while you sit waiting patiently for him to choose whether to stay with you or not.

Fuck him off, you're worth more than this.

He doesn’t sound under confident and like he has low self esteem he sounds like a massive player who reels women in with the ‘I’m so misunderstood and only you can cure me’ play.

He is playing you like a fiddle and loving it. I know you love him but he is treating you so disrespectfully, that is not loving behavior.

Don't play the pick me dance, there'll only be one winner and it won't be you.

So it's your fault again then. And he's the victim again, then. Still not allowed to be angry with him, I see.

He's so predictable. I'm sorry- I know you see the whole person. We just see the pattern and script.

OP, if you're really not ready to see the writing on the wall on this then do yourself a favour and take control - tell him to go stay elswewhere, turn up for counselling when you get appointments, and YOU will decide when you are ready to talk to him further about whether YOU think there is any future in this marriage.

Don't allow him to sit around and dither and control the narrative. At best (even though I feel it's unlikely) he will realise that unlike last time, you are deadly serious about a need for complete change.

At worst, you will give yourself time to come round to the situation and not have such a wrench if it is the end.

(Did you suggest the counselling, or him? I am guessing you ...)

"But he also feels our love has been superficial at the same time. "

You've not been superficial have you? You've been honest, kind, loving and supportive. You've done your best. You've examined the relationship from his perspective. You've changed to fit. You've been changed.

The superficial element comes from him.

I've read the thread as you have been writing. You've received some good advice - I know it takes time to absorb but honestly, suggesting that your love is superficial that where I'd chuck my hat out of the ring. He can find meaningful elsewhere.

If he calls the relationships superficial or anything else, he needs to be called out about this joint responsibility trip he's laying on you.

Say to him 'no, YOU find the relationship superficial, I don't'.
Keep turning the dial back to yourself and what you feel.

Keep making a distinction between you and him.
Whatever he says, clearly tell him those are HIS feelings.
That you have different feelings to him.
Because you are a separate person.

Getting involved in what he feels, and trying to clamber inside his head is a way to distract yourself from your own difficult feelings.

It's time to put yourself first.
If a friend came and told you her husband was doing and saying what he is, what would you say to her?

I suspect he’s waiting to be pushed rather than jump, coward. You can’t trust him and you can’t wait around for the other shoe to drop and let’s face it, it will always drop with this one.

[quote IGJ10]@ravenmum
Today he said that he feels conflicting emotions at the same time about me. He said he’s in love with me and can’t bear to not be with me. But he also feels our love has been superficial at the same time. He said he on the one hand feels we should break up and on the other wants to build a future with me. I pressed him about his young coworker and he got upset. He then said he feels ‘confused’ about his feelings towards her. And he thinks if our relationship had been good he wouldn’t have been in the headspace to ‘latch’ onto her. He feels we lack direction as a couple, despite the fact we had been looking to buy a house and considering starting a family.[/quote]
Listen to what he's saying. He's bluntly admitting he's hedging his bets and stringing you along.

And he's blaming you for him looking around at other women because you are 'directionless' (this is code for him living in fantasyland btw and not wishing to have a grown up real relationship with its ups and downs.)

He's waiting to see if it goes anyway with this other woman but he wants to keep you on the hook so that he has a backup option in case he doesn't get his kicks with new woman.

He's too cowardly to admit he's using you and you are just there for his convenience. You are his backup plan not his first choice fantasy. (no woman can live up to whats in his head btw)

Thing is, even if he doesn't end up with this one he's making it very clear if you stay with him he's very much on the look out for a better offer. He's not even being subtle in what he's saying.

He thinks you are a mug. Its your choice as to whether he's going to be right in that assumption.

The one thing that strikes me reading all your comments OP, is that "he says he loves me" but absolutely nowhere has he demonstrated this. He KNOWS how much it hurts you when he flirts - but he still does it. He seems focused above all on what he wants and needs - if he loved you, he would want to at least consider what YOU want and need.

OP- bottom line- a man who really loves you won’t be sending sexy or flirty texts to other women or ‘feel confused’ about what or who he wants.

He is doing that classic man thing of not wanting to hurt your feelings but making things 100 times worse by fucking you about.

Many of us have been there, I know I have.

A helpful thing that my friend said when I was in your shoes: wouldn’t you rather be with someone who actually, really wanted to be with you? Someone who was devoted to you?

With the right man it’s just not this fucking hard. Counselling? Uncertainty? Bet you are feeling utterly miserable and can think of nothing else? And this is your honeymoon period!🙄

OP he seems to be changing his direction here, upping it that further notch! Superficial? Your relationship lacks of direction?
I thought he had said he did not know why he acted like this and why he was not happy and he was willing to go to counselling. But now he keeps throwing shade to your relationship, when he should be showing that commitment and trying to make amends, and booking that counselling. It is painful enough to hear he is not happy, and he is flirty with others. But to keep at it!
I will join the rest of mumsnetters saying it is not looking good. And he is not showing to be worthy in any way! He should be showing some love and remorse now, you know if he is not superficial.
Maybe I had missed some of your posts.
Ask him to make his head clear, while he sleeps in the spare room. Look him in the eye and tell him you do not want a life in suspense, so he needs to figure it out and show you some respect. So he has to make his mind about how he feels about this other woman. And if he wants to try to save his marriage, for real.

OP, you're way over thinking this. He wants to fuck his colleague.

Counselling won't fix that.

Also, this nebulous, unspecified ' something wrong' is part of the script. It's to keep you busy flapping about wasting your time trying to understand.

While he floats into work every day fantasizing about his young colleague.

This is all routine affair stuff. Do your research and move on.

He’s not “sensitive” OP, he’s got the hide of a rhinoceros!!

Tje bloody nerve of him! The only person being superficial here is him!!

Seriously the only future here for you is heartache & chronic loss of self esteem :(

I agree he is hedging his bets. Dont do the 'pick me' dance. Just get yourself out of this relationship and find someone who puts you first.

He isnt sensitive or damaged or confused he just wants out (and is a twat).

@AfterSchoolWorry

OP, you're way over thinking this. He wants to fuck his colleague.

Counselling won't fix that.

Also, this nebulous, unspecified ' something wrong' is part of the script. It's to keep you busy flapping about wasting your time trying to understand.

While he floats into work every day fantasizing about his young colleague.

This is all routine affair stuff. Do your research and move on.

This is it in a nutshell. Poor OP wants carry on thinking he's a poor tortured soul who can't help himself, rather than a common or garden sleaze and he of course laps it up.

He’s not hedging his bets because he didn’t need to tell her. She knew nothing. He’s exiting.

If my husband told me he "was confused about his feelings for another woman" that would be the end for me.

We’re 12 pages in & not one person has suggested staying with this fucking idiot, because EVERYONE can see through him.

Joint counselling won’t work because (as someone mentioned above) he’s a fucking “cake eater.” Neatly define by Chump Lady as:

“Cake eaters act vague. They need time. They appeal to you for patience. They feel very, very sorry for themselves. They’ll assert that they’re trying very hard to appease you (they’re not, but they may throw you a bone like marriage counseling, or sex, or paying attention to their children). Cake eaters are defensive and ‘confused’ when you question their commitment or the sincerity of their remorse. They really just want you to leave them alone and let them get back to the business of eating cake.”

Sound familiar?

He only wants the counselling to:

*buy time

*make it look like he tried to change things and not be the one ending your marriage

@WizardOfAus

We’re 12 pages in & not one person has suggested staying with this fucking idiot, because EVERYONE can see through him.

Joint counselling won’t work because (as someone mentioned above) he’s a fucking “cake eater.” Neatly define by Chump Lady as:

“Cake eaters act vague. They need time. They appeal to you for patience. They feel very, very sorry for themselves. They’ll assert that they’re trying very hard to appease you (they’re not, but they may throw you a bone like marriage counseling, or sex, or paying attention to their children). Cake eaters are defensive and ‘confused’ when you question their commitment or the sincerity of their remorse. They really just want you to leave them alone and let them get back to the business of eating cake.”

Sound familiar?

God it's so depressing how predictable these wankers are isn't it? This description from Chump Lady is spot on, isn't it OP? Can you see how it is a tactic to keep you off his back, keep you trying to please him, stop you showing your emotions, stop you being in control of decisions about the relationship...? Can you see all that?

Please, OP, take back some of the power here. Everything he’s doing and saying is just so deeply wrong and he’s even got the gall to try and pin this on you. And this is him 3 years into your relationship. This isn’t a mid-life crisis after 20 years of sensible spouse behaviour. You’re still in your honeymoon period and this guy is just sh1tting on you and your relationship from a great height.

You sound fabulous, OP. Start looking after yourself. You said early on in the thread that you’d gone from being confident and outgoing to an emotional wreck. Your relationship should be a source of strength and nurture. This man is damaging you.

It’s good that you’re not too fussed about having children. But you discussed it with this guy and perhaps you may feel you want them if you’re with a man who treats you as a loving spouse should. So please stop letting this man waste your time.

Take back some power. Even if you’re not ready to end it for good, tell him he needs to move out until he’s sorted his head out a bit or move out yourself. Stop being so available to him. Start valuing yourself.

Never met this man but I can’t bloody stand him

@mycatlovesmenotyou

OP, he is clearly checking out because he has feelings for the other girl. I would ask him to leave while YOU consider your options and what YOU want.

It's not all about him. Do not let him mess you around. I know it's not easy, but you will keep your self respect that way. Don't do the "pick me dance". All it does is stoke his ego and confidence, that he has more than one woman who wants him.

This!