My husband is miserable because he thinks our marriage isn't working. I was happy until he said this...

[IGJ10]

I've been married to my husband for 2 and a bit years - it's my first marriage, his second. I love him to bits. Around a year ago, I had some issues with trusting him - I found some excessively flirty/sexual messages with some of his longstanding female friends on his phone. He was open about the fact that he is very flirty with some of his old female friends because it helps his self esteem (which is painfully low - he has often questioned whether he's good enough for me and expressed feelings of disgust about himself). He let me have full access to his phone and changed the way he interacted with these friends, but I felt betrayed that even after we'd married he still needed that validation from other females. I can be honest and say I went from a confident, independent woman to a bit of an emotional mess. Initially I managed to deal with this quite well and we were very honest with each other. At the same time (earlier this year), he started a new job and a member of his team who is very young and pretty has been texting him a lot. And he responded - again, whilst not crossing the line officially (messages were mostly about work) there was a very flirty overtone and when I saw the messages I flipped out. Whilst he has, once again, amended the nature of his messages with her (and he shows me them when I ask), I've met this girl and it's obvious she's besotted with him and gives his ego a massive boost. He claims he feels just friendship towards her and I've accepted that and we've carried on as normal. I haven't asked to see any of his messages for 6 months.

A few weeks ago he told me he wasn't sure about our future, he feels unhappy and has been feeling like he's going through the motions. This was a shock to me. Particularly as he said he'd actually been feeling this way for well over a year (long before I saw the first bunch of flirty messages). I'm aware that my paranoia and trust issues affected him but I felt I'd resolved them and we were getting on an even keel. We've been talking about buying a house and starting a family. I asked him today if he has feelings for that girl and he said "I don't know. Possibly. I don't know what I feel or why I feel." He said he loves me. I asked him what's wrong with the marriage and he said he doesn't know. Despite everything, I've shown him total trust, even after what we went through. I am confused. We are hopefully going to start counselling but any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated. Apologies that this is so long.

No I wouldn't show him, this is your space to vent and ask questions, the minute you invite him into this you'll change your behaviour.

He wouldn't like the reality of what people have said either.

@Bigpaintinglittlepainting
Did you manage to find resolution with your indecisive partner?

I wouldnt show him this thread as ot is your safe space to get support.

For what its worth i dont think he's an awful man, just like my ex husband wasn't, they dont see anything wrong with what they do as they need the validation.

He would be perfect for someone else who isn't too fussed about flirting but unfortunately he isnt perfect for you.

He messed me around for a year, we went to relate his friends told me how much he loved me, I tied myself in knots to please him and in the end he was unbearable to live with. I never knew what was going on with him and eventually I left.

He ruined my confidence for a long time, but I recovered and met a really lovely man who made me realise all the ridiculous hoops my ex had made me jump through to keep him happy.

Honestly I know the fog you are in because you love him but that wears off, it hurts but in the end he just doesn’t love you enough to be a nice person

Right OP. When you said that you can't tell your family because your father would gloat it rang a bell. My mother was also a toxic individual who would enjoy seeing me unhappy or for her to be 'proven right'.

After unpicking what went wrong in my earlier relationships it's clear to me that a chronic low self esteem was the reason i chose partners who treated me like crap. Who put me down, belittled and lied constantly to cover their bad behaviour. And I believed them, I accepted it because I didn't believe undeserved better.

Until I broke free. I realised that it was no longer the life unwanted to live. I would rather be single than settle for an arsehole. So I kicked him out and divorced him. And low and behold, guess who came out of the woodwork to defend my exH, yep. My mother. I told her if she likes him so much she could take him in as he was incapable of looking after himself the grown man of 33.

I can honestly say the 10 years since I kicked him out and went NC with my toxic mother have been the best of my life. I am happy, settled, content and blissfully living the best life with a wonderful partner and our DC.

I got here by no longer accepting shit. When dating I would give someone the boot for even minor indiscretions because if someone genuinely cares about you, they'll move heaven and earth to make you feel it. Your DH isn't going to do this and you deserve a better life. Make it happen and you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

He's shown you who he is. Listen to him.

I’m also interested to know if everyone thinks sending flirty texts constitutes cheating

This behaviour turned you into an emotional mess, and turned your inwardly against yourself, causing you to believe you have trust issues.

I don't think you need to get hung up on whether he needs to insert his penis into someone else. Your instinct that he shouldn't be seeking this sexual attention from other other was correct.
He's done something that crosses a boundary, makes you feel shit, and he's continuing to do it. That makes him a crap partner.

I know for example he doesn’t see flirty texts/ sexual texts as cheating.
The flirty texts aren't the cheating. They're the lead-up or accompaniment to the cheating. The flirty texts are "just" massively inappropriate.

He knows how inappropriate they are, and he knows that they're either leading up to or happening alongside him sleeping with other women.
However, if he acts as if sexy talk with other women is fine, and you are the unreasonable one, then that means he can keep on doing sexy talk with other women, without having to hide it. Yay.

You will waste your chance to have children with a loving man if you choose to stay with this man. That's a really big thing. He's already wasted 3 years of your life, 3 years you could have met someone faithful, loving and trusting. My xh was like yours. I left after one year of marriage and I see that as a positive thing. I couldn't live like that. There's always an excuse to message women for this type of man. If you give him another 3 years you may not have children and think how you will feel if you choose that. It's really hard to end a relationship even when it's the right thing but you have to decide what you want from this one short precious life

It isn't about cheating, to me.

It's about doing things that make you massively unhappy. He's carrying on, living the life of riley, while you slowly fall apart because of his behaviour.

That isn't love.

Thank you all for your advice and opinions again. It has been particularly useful hearing the testimonials of people who’ve been through what I’m going through. When my hubby first said he didn’t know what was wrong and was ready for counselling to try and figure it out, I don’t know why but I felt like perhaps this is more complex than we’d ever be able to fathom. And ultimately if we couldn’t figure out what’s wrong/why he’s unhappy I’d feel like a failure. But I see now firstly that my situation isn’t unique or even particularly complex - it’s probably a precursor to the inevitable demise of my marriage and his feelings are possibly/probably driven by the fact he doesn’t love or respect me enough. I honestly feel a lot more confident about my own future now. As I’ve said previously, I will give a stint of counselling a shot to see if he can acknowledge/accept/rectify any of the above. But I will go into it with my eyes open and not accepting of any blame.

Of course he'll say he doesn't view sexual texts as cheating! It would be highly inconvenient to him if he had to admit to cheating wouldn't it? Couldn't have his fragile self esteem damaged after all. Wee flower.

OP, you need to see the difference between what he tells you and what the truth actually is.

Op, you’re not to blame, if in fact there is blame to be allocated, I’m not sure it’s simple or wise to play the blame game. It is simply he is not committed enough and thinks the grass is greener, and he’s lusting after some young woman. Possibly even any other woman. And has been for much of your marriage.

Counselling may put a sticking plaster over it for awhile, but it’s not a magic wand, it will not suddenly make him more committed or more in love. In this regard, your feelings are fairly impossible to change.

To put it simply, if you’re not feeling it, you’re not feeling it. You can’t force it by going to see a counsellor a few times.

He won't love or respect any woman enough. This is a pattern of behaviour in his intimate relationships, that's why some posters identified him as a misogynist. He sees women as benefitting him, that's what they are there for. Counselling is unlikely to change his belief but it may give him some lines to use on the next one. Cheat. Predator. Narcissist. Misogynist. These men ruin women's lives

That is right OP, keep your eyes open and look out for yourself. Make sure you do not jump over any loops or take any happiness from yourself on the process. The goal is for both of you to be happy, and put your priority on yourself. Best luck

he doesn’t see flirty texts/ sexual texts as cheating

Would he feel the same if the situation was reversed and YOU were sleazing on your colleagues?

But I see now firstly that my situation isn’t unique or even particularly complex

That's right. He's a common or garden cheat, or trying to be, with zero respect for you, or how his actions impact you.

@picklemewalnuts

It isn't about cheating, to me.

It's about doing things that make you massively unhappy. He's carrying on, living the life of riley, while you slowly fall apart because of his behaviour.

That isn't love.

This is ultimately what's stayed with me longest after my ex's cheating. Not the cheating, all the rest.

One thing standing out for me is you saying flirty/sexual messages a couple of times. For me there is a huge difference between a flirty and a sexual message. So it really depends if he has sent sexual messages or not. But you haven't been together that long in the grand scheme, and given you have no children to add to the relationship pressure and drudgery it shouldn't be this difficult and one where you have to check his phone isn't normal. I've been with my partner for 10 years and have never once felt the need to check his phone.

I get the sense that he doesn't know the difference between lust and love. After you became married and moved onto domesticity, he met this new younger colleague and her being off limits has sparked some feeling of wanting what he can't have. Wether or not this has progressed to an emotional or physical affair we couldn't possibly say, but it has at least made him seriously question his marriage. I suspect this is just an immaturity in him, that he thinks he maybe isn't in love with you because of how he enjoys flirting with the colleague or others.

It all sounds very immature on his part. I think harbouring minor feelings for colleagues can be quite normal. Me personally am in a long term relationship with children and a couple of times I've been involved with some flirting with colleagues, but I know it would never go anywhere and is just a want what you can't have thing, mixed with a bit of work boredom and it quickly fades once the novelty wears off and you actually get to know a new colleague better. I'd never cross any lines.

The thing is, whilst your husband is questioning his commitment to your marriage, you are 37 and if you do ever want to start a family you are nearly out of time. You need to think about how important this is to you. If you drag this out through relationship councelling because he hasn't got the guts to commit or end it then it will be too late for you to find someone else to start a family with. He will move on to younger colleague or someone else inevitably and probably settle down with them and have kids quote quickly before realising that parenting kills all lust and he moves on yet again. Maybe you aren't invested either way in having kids and that is absolutely fine and a valid decision, but it is a big issue that needs some thought. So many of these men drag out marriages while contemplatinf if they want to commit properly to a family while stringing other women along when their wives are in their late 30's.

Just for the record, I don't think you should start a family with him!

I don’t think you should waste time going tk counselling sessions with him.

He’s just an untrustworthy, run of the mill, entitled arsehole. Cling onto him to the detriment of your life, happiness and self-respect OP.

He’s a bog-standard cheater.

I think he needs to go to counselling on his own. And you should also go to counselling on your own to figure out your needs for your life and what you want.

You both have a dynamic going on in this relationship. All relationships are a dynamic but some dynamics include a lot of issues from a person's past, which only make themselves known as the relationship develops over the years.
It sounds like he has a compulsive need to get attention for himself from females. It's like an addiction to getting attention.

He uses you as the secure base, you are the substitute 'Mummy', then goes off to play with other women on his phone.

If one was to psychoanalyze it, he has a Mother problem.
He harbours both anger towards his mother for her belittlement of him, plus at the same time a desperate need for her attention.

His need to hurt his mother's feelings will be expressed by messing you about (you are the mother figure because you have shown you will stay no matter how bad his behaviour ).

Yet at the same time his cravings for attention remain.
Because being with you (or any steady relationship) doesn't solve those deep rooted issues for him.

If you had kids things would get worse, as your attention would be diverted towards the kids.

I would guess if you threaten to leave him, you will see him turn in a sobbing little boy crying for his Mummy. But that still won't be relating to you as an equal adult. It'll be all about him being upset, I'm such a bad person etc etc.

There may still be no 'adult' perspective on how he has hurt you or consideration of how you might feel or the implications for your shared future.

What you would be looking for in counselling is an adult perspective from him. But he'd have to be seeking those changes himself, for his own sake because he feels he'd like to feel different about himself, and I'm not sure he is?

You are allowing him to talk to you like this. To threaten you by saying these things. I get the feeling you don't let him know the full impact of the things he says to you about your future. This is your hopes and dreams he's fucking with, he's toying with.

Writing a long letter is not a strong emotional reaction in the moment. It's quite a passive, considered reaction. I wonder how easy you find it to express your own emotions to others.

But that's all Him, him, him. What about you? How do you feel? What do you want from life, what treatment do you deserve from an equal partner?

I actually don’t think he needs counselling, either you’re committed to your marriage or your not. No amount of counselling is going to change that. There is nothing “wrong” with him,, he can’t be cured, he is not ill. He is simply not happy in his marriage and hasn’t been for a long time.

@user68634
To clarify - some of the texts I've seen with his "longstanding female friends" are overtly sexual. Whilst they aren't frequent, the sexual nature of the messages was a consistent feature. After I pulled him up on this, he stopped sending those sorts of messages to those friends.

The messages with his coworker have been flirty, but not sexual (yet?). I remember seeing a message where she was banging on about how his eyes look different colours in different lights and he has mentioned that he liked a dress she wore and her nail varnish. He often says how 'awesome' she is.

I'm not planning on starting a family with him at present.

Good, don't have kids with him. He does not have the emotional maturity to maintain a relationship. If you have kids with him he will fuck the up.

@IGJ10

Good morning all. Thank you again for your thoughts. I’ve had a sleepless night thinking about everything that has been said but I’m also grateful for the support and positive words from people I’ve never met. I know he says he loves me, but I suspect you are right that he doesn’t love me enough. And maybe not enough to make the changes within that are necessary. Only time will tell. My (I hope!) final question is - should I show him what people have said on here? Bearing in mind that he’s not really been able to give his side of things. I know for example he doesn’t see flirty texts/ sexual texts as cheating. He’s also not a misogynistic person, but selfish yes.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't see a problem with his behaviour. It is a problem for you and, as you can see, would be a problem for most people. Draw your line.

He says he 'doesn't blame you' for the way he feels - that's big of him, although he clearly means you to feel that you are not good enough. Please don't even consider having a child with this idiot, if you do decide to stay with him - but that would be the wrong choice from everything you've said. Get out and start afresh, there will be a lovely man out there for you who will love you and deserve you.