Marriage

[doireallyneedaname]

My partner & I have been together for 5 years. In the beginning I was open about my wishes to eventually marry & have children.

Through out the entirety of our relationship I have watched so many of both his own friends and mine get engaged and I used to get upset about it. Initially he had said it would happen but he was hardly going to talk to me about it. Then slowly it changed ti “I want to save enough money to do something great, you said in the beginning you’d always wanted a great gesture”, to “there’s a lack of trust from you and I want to fix that before we get married” to now “you know Im not fussed for marriage, it doesn’t mean anything.”

His parents never married and have lived very happily so he doesn’t get it. My parents did marry and I come from a family who see it as a big deal, as do I. It just means something to me and i guess it’s the fairytale I’d always dreamed of.

He says having a baby together should prove his commitment. It’s not really about that, although now I’m starting to wonder how committed he really is. I will always explain that if it’s not a huge deal to him but he’s not against it per se, but it’s a big deal to me, why wouldn’t he just do it for me?

My issue is that I don’t talk about it anymore but I also don’t expect a proposal anytime soon, if ever.

Anyone been in a similar situation?

@doireallyneedaname
Of course you’ve already had a baby and given him the surname of a man who doesn’t even love you enough to marry you. 🙄🙄 I don’t really know why you are posting. You’re tied to him now anyway so you don’t have the option of finding and having children with someone who actually loves and wants to marry you. Why on earth would he bother marrying you when he knows this.

@doireallyneedaname I don’t want to get married for the sake of it, I want to marry him because I love him what a pity he doesn’t feel the same.

My cousins DH parents never married. He had no interest in getting married. However he loves my cousin and saw how important it was to her and how much it would mean to her to be married and to then have a family together so he proposed and they married quickly. His speech at the wedding was the most amazing I’ve ever heard. It’s clear he would do anything for her including going against one of his core beliefs to make her happy. Unfortunately your boyfriend doesn’t feel the same about you.

"I’m just saying that knowing this man, even if that was to happen he wouldn’t leave us high and dry. If not for me then he definitely wouldn’t for our son who he adores".

Your first sentence is really a triumph of hope over experience, you do not know for a fact he would leave you high and dry. I have lost count of how many women have been shafted financially and emotionally here because they have thought the self same. I would not be too certain about your second sentence either; men (and women too) can and do leave children and sometimes too without a second glance. The commitment is not to them either and the child should not be used as glue here to bind you and this man together . You look at the statistics; how many men in particular actually remain in contact with their children even just two years post separation?. It makes for sobering reading.

If marriage had really been this important to you, you perhaps would have insisted on this before sharing or otherwise buying a property with him and having a child by him. And if he was to only stay with you because of and primarily for the child, well that does not say much about him either. Staying for the sake of the child does no-one any favours in the long run and it teaches the child the parents relationship was based on a lie. It teaches the child too that a loving relationship is not their birthright. You have all too willingly and freely handed over all your power in this relationship to him and at potentially great cost to you going forward.

OP you come across as sensible and I can't help thinking that lots of others are blinded by their own experience (just as I am to a certain extent).
You partner and your relationship sounds reasonable.
I agree you need to be the proactive one here - just because it's on your terms doesn't mean he doesnt want it or you strongarmed him into it. It just means he's a bit 'meh' about marriage and that's ok.
As a counter to others can I share my experience?
My parents weren't married, they stayed together on/off for 40 years. Never fell out of love but couldn't live together, my mum nursed my father through the last 7 years.
Yes - I got the inheritance instead of her but she saw it as my future anyway and I took care of her too. (just as I see it for my kids). My husband wanted to get married and my mum wanted to see me get married before she died. So we did. It was important to them and I loved them. But it's not made me stay, money wise my husband stands to get more short term and me more long-term if we spilt. I still forget we are actually married and call him my partner most of the time.
Marriage is only a big deal when you spilt up. Not before.
So get planning that registry office and do something for both of you! He can get excited about the house and do the planning for that and you can do the registry office. Job done.
X

I don’t know the true reason he feels this way about marriage

He doesn't feel any sort of way about marriage, it is how he feels about you. He knows this is important to you and he could just do it to make your family legally secure, but he won't. What sort of man does that?

Thank you! My dad would also like to see us get married, in the last few years he’s started to say how he’ll can “die peacefully” knowing I’m married and settled. Both my brothers are married (one of them on the third wife...) My partner knows that but I don’t feel it’s fair for me to bash him over the head with my dads wishes, but I will be mentioning it again. He’s pushing 80 and it is important to me too.

A man whose parents never married and don’t really believe in it? They’ve been going strong for over 30 years.

I do agree that if he isn’t bothered for it then he should just do it for me, but that’s why I’m posting..

[quote Likeafriendivealwaysknown]**@doireallyneedaname* I don’t want to get married for the sake of it, I want to marry him because I love him* what a pity he doesn’t feel the same.

My cousins DH parents never married. He had no interest in getting married. However he loves my cousin and saw how important it was to her and how much it would mean to her to be married and to then have a family together so he proposed and they married quickly. His speech at the wedding was the most amazing I’ve ever heard. It’s clear he would do anything for her including going against one of his core beliefs to make her happy. Unfortunately your boyfriend doesn’t feel the same about you.[/quote]
Because this is what men do when they truly love a woman.

A man's true love is not terribly complicated.
When they really love you, that is it.

Nothing is going to stop them being with you, money, religion, background, culture.

They love you and that is it.

Your happiness is of huge importance to them.

Men love a woman who won't compromise their beliefs and standards.

They love a woman who is prepared to walk away because she knows what she wants and has the confidence to back it up.

I'm older, but I know what I know.

Women having children and hoping they'll "come round and marry me" are deluded.

If a man doesn't value you enough to marry you, when it's important to YOU, then why would he do it when YOU have taken on the huge responsibility of children.

I have reams of stories on both sides of this that I have heard of over the years.

I'm not suggesting that everyone wants or should get married.

I'm suggesting that if she does and he doesn't, she shouldn't compromise on it and go ahead, have children, and hope he'll come around.

Men value women who value themselves.

Men value women who don't accept being given the run a round and bullshit.

Men value women who are prepared to kick them to touch if they don't treat them the way they expect to be treated.

This all comes out in the wash, long before children arrive, if you know your value.

Value yourself and others will value you to.

Old fashioned yes.
It is the message I am giving my daughter's.

KNOW YOUR WORTH.

One legal reason would be you would have to pay inheritance tax on any assets that pass to the survivor as an unmarried couple. Could mean you’d have to sell the family home if you did buy together

On the emotional front, you are upset already. That’s going to turn to resentment and possibly sour your whole relationship. So if it doesn’t matter to him and not doing it could implode your relationship why doesn’t he want to avoid that???

If you’ve made clear to him you’d really like to get married and he’s just not bothered...well then he’s just not that bothered about your feelings. If it’s not a big deal or he doesn’t see the point then why not just sign the papers?

I don’t think he wants to marry you op, sorry. And I say this as someone who was with someone for 10 years who I realised didn’t want to marry me!

If you’re happy with your baby and independently financially stable I would just try to accept it.

I agree to a degree but I don’t believe that a man in love will or should do anything for the person he loves. It’s a fine line. If you’re in a relationship should you then give up your career, friends, hobbies all in the name of love because that’s what your partner wants?

I had a horrific relationship before my current partner and during that time I truly believed and chanted that men would move mountains for the person they loved because that’s how I was, but now I’m starting to think that was unrealistic. If he was against marriage would that change this? Would I then be the selfish one for trying to force him to do something he truly didn’t believe in?

Of course there are couples who have stayed happily together for 20/30/40 years without marriage. They're usually the ones where BOTH parties are unfussed by the idea of marriage.

My DP and I have discussed marriage. He wants to marry me, I want to marry him. But we might not get married, simply because at our time of life (50s) it's not as important as it once was. What's important is that we both feel the same way about it.

You and your DP don't, though. Marriage is important to you. You have told your DP this, repeatedly. He doesn't want to marry you. There is an imbalance.

That's the problem- the imbalance. Currently you have allowed the scales to weigh in his favour.

That's not a recipe for a successful relationship. The question is now, what you're going to do about it.

I think I would sit him down, and say you want to get married within, say, six months. Tell him you don't care what kind of ceremony it is, you don't care if you have a ring, you just want to be married. Tell him that if this isn't something he's willing to do for you, then at the end of that 6 months you will be looking to move on.

Make it clear that you know your worth, and that he does too.

This thread is full of scorned women who are very much projecting.

My DP left me after 12 years and married someone else with in 6 months (so yes I've had first hand experience) but that would still have happened whether we were married or not. Its got nothing to do with love.

Yes okay, marriage can project a women but quite frankly women should learn to protect themselves by working and having assets for themselves and not giving up everything for a man. When the exDP left it made absolutely no impact on my financial life and I had more than him. OP one of the things everyone on here is correct about is that if you split he won't be the wonderful sharing caring man he once was - you wouldn't even recognise him.

My current DP was married. He married after 10 years because it was so important to his then wife. They split within 2 years.

I will never get married, he doesn't want to get married for a second time.. and I don't blame him. Its not important to me and I've certainly never felt less loved because of it.

It sounds like you want a wedding more than a marriage.

I don't agree that he doesn't love you because he won't marry you. I love my partner and as I said above we have 3 kids and been together over 12 years. I don't want to marry him though.
He wants to get married but accepts my decision.
I have never looked at anyone for security but have worked hard and made myself financially secure. I earn more than my partner, own half the house, I have savings and he doesn't. We have separate money but share household bills. I don't rely on him for anything.
Some of the views on here are very old fashioned.

He lied to you. If his reasons are based on his parents and he’s now saying they haven’t changed. So what do you think explains his assorted lies about a big gesture, the lack of trust etc?

@doireallyneedaname I’m confused as to why you created this post? You said above you don’t believe a man in love should do anything for the woman he loves. You insist your boyfriend is in love with you, would never leave you and if you also believe he shouldn’t marry you because it would make you happy (interesting view) then what’s the issue?

Personally I would’ve loved to hear a conversation where you told him the baby would have your surname. I suspect he would’ve had an absolute fit as it would be important to him for the baby to have his surname. Yet you’re not important enough to him to get his surname.

Regardless get all the financial protections in place so that you have the same rights as a married couple.

In arguments we have had I have questioned that. He says he has never been fussed for marriage or kids but that changed when he met me, He reminds me that I said a lot of things when we first met that didn’t materialise either - like wanting to give up home life and travel the world together. We have travelled a fair bit but not to the extent I said I would like us to, whereas he still wants us to do this. There is a lack of trust in our relationship on my part; mainly due to my previous relationship which was extremely emotionally abusive. There are a lot of fixable problems in our relationship that we are actively working on and they have improved significantly over the last couple of years. Sometimes I feel like he thinks one day things will be “perfect” and that will be the right time to marry.

Ill never get married and don't want to. DP feels the same. We have a 2 year old daughter together. Id rather spend money on a holiday and our daughter than wasting money on wedding cakes and dresses. But if i did feel strongly for it he would marry me.

Any woman in a relationship would be stupid to have children without being legally married. Marriage protects your financial rights to pensions, bereavement support payments, property and money if you get divorced.

I did actually consider giving the baby my name and he didn’t have much to say about it. I was the one that said I’d like baby to have his name, my family are quite traditional and it didn’t feel right having a boy and not letting him take his fathers name. I considered giving him both and my partner was in agreement but frankly I decided the name would just sound ridiculous (we both have long names)

I don't think anyone should go against their core beliefs to "make someone happy", no. But that's not the situation here. His stance is "yeah one day, if you want, but I'm not fussed".

Thanks for that.

OP, at the end of the day he thinks you’re good enough to carry his child but not good enough to marry, EVEN THOUGH he’s heard you saying it’s important to you.

The problem is, your words and actions don’t match. Your words say ‘being married is really important to me’, but your actions say otherwise. Your initial post was unclear but now I see you have a child together already. A woman who truly wanted to get married wouldn’t do something as significant as carry a boyfriend’s baby without securing a marriage contract. Nor would she hang around day after day sleeping next to a man who clearly doesn’t think too highly of her or treat her like her needs matter.

But it’s pretty clear you don’t want to split up, so I would take him at his word when he says he’d marry next week in a register office and book it. Just tell him you agree it doesn’t make any sense to have a fancy wedding at this stage when you already live together and have a child, and that you’ll get it booked, does this date work?

You want him to be excited to marry you but you’re not gonna get that, so short of splitting this is the next best thing. Unless you’re scared he will finally admit he has no intention of every marrying you...