Husband attacked teenage son

[Throwawaynameforthis]

On Saturday night my husband pinned DS to the floor.

We were playing a family game and DS (14) was being annoying, escalating to rudeness. He accused me of “smacking him” which I absolutely did not do.

I took myself out of the room for a minute and the next thing I hear is H yelling, DD15 shouting at H to stop and DD9 sobbing.

As I walk into room DS is legging it out the house looking terrified, quickly followed by DD. From what I can work out H picked DS up by then lapels and got him on floor and was telling him he’d “show him what a smack is”.

I found DS quickly and then DD and went home. H apologised to the DC but I’m so angry. I don’t know what to do. This has been escalating for months.

Is this it? Is there any recovering from this? For me or the DC?

DS wasn’t being threatening in the slightest. He was however behaving like a prat.

It doesn't matter how rude your son was. What his dad did was assault. He wasn't teaching him a lesson, he lost control.

@Throwawaynameforthis - you say this had been escalating for months. What do you mean by this? That your dh’s reaction to your ds’s perfectly normal teenage behaviour was becoming increasingly unreasonable, or that your ds was getting increasingly obnoxious and condescending and your dh increasingly wound up by it?

@theimber Except there is no harm in being gay, whereas there is harm in physically hurting your child.

OP's husband could have left the room to discuss appropriate punishment with OP and they could have approached things as a team as responsible adults - particularly as there seemed to have been no imminent threat. The boy was being "annoying, escalating to rudeness" but OP never said dangerous or threatening.

@TheImber

I don’t regularly walk away. I said I am capable of doing so. Unlike my H who will, IMO, argue with DS over the most trivial of matters.

@Thelmber

Once everyone has calmed down, you go back and discuss it like civilised human beings and put in place any sanctions like phone being taken away/grounding etc.

@Throwawaynameforthis why is your son so adamant that you hit him? I think that's weird.

Anyway, I'd take most of these posts with a giant helping of salt. I don't think a lot of these posters have any experience with teen sons, and it shows.

FWIW I don't necessarily think one argument that got out of hand resulting in physical restraint needs extensive counselling and therapy.

@justanotherneigh

Honestly, its probably too late now. If the boy is this bad, then the issue probably started a long time ago.

Maybe the odd smacked bottom when he was younger, and a mum who actually stands up to him instead of walking away might have helped. 🤷‍♀️

@steppemum no that's nonsense. The fact is that you dont have the right to harrass, and badger and annoy people and not expect a reaction. We tolerate annoying and obnoxious behaviour in children precisely because they are children. For adults there are consequences. Making that transition - from being a child that needs protection to being an adult whose obnoxious behaviour may be perceived as threatening to others - is complicated when the mind and the mouth may be that of a child but the body grows to the size of an adult. The reality is that it's not safe to aggravate or threaten adults. It's not "victim blaming" to make teenage boys understand that.

@trashaccount I agree that there should have been a more joined up approach to dealing with this, and although I'm being flippant on this thread, I do think any kind of physical punishment is very much a last resort.

The point is that it sounds like its gone past the point for half measures in OPs House.

But that is one step away from also saying - teenage girls, it isn't sensible to walk down a dark alley on your own, if you do you might get attacked - no, not allowed to say that, it is victim blaming.

If a girl walks down a dark alley on her own and gets raped, do you think she is in any way responsible for that? Personally, I blame the rapist 100%

Yes, of course I teach my dd that she needs to take precautions to stay safe, but the fact is, she should not have to. A girl should be able to walk around without fear of being attacked and I would never feel that a victim deserved it or was "asking for it" (to borrow a phrase that has been used on this thread) because of where she was, what she was wearing etc. I really thought we had moved on from such antiquated views.

Same in this situation.The DS should certainly learn to regulate his behaviour so that he doesn't come across as an obnoxious PITA. That doesn't mean that he was "asking" to be assaulted or that he was in any way to blame for his father's abusive behaviour. His father is solely responsible for his actions.

It's an interesting argument though, and one that is frequently used by abusers to blame their victims. Like the violent husband who only beats his wife because she provokes him....

why is your son so adamant that you hit him? I think that's weird.

Good point. If you're never violent why would he say this? (I'm not accusing you of being violent but it's weird to accuse someone of that when they've never done anything like that before)

@theimber And when the method of restraining and threatening didn't work and DS behaves badly again, is a chokehold appropriate? Or a punch? Where is the line between abuse and discipline in that case?

I think what’s very clear is this is a kid who’s pushing his boundaries, as is typical teenage behaviour, just the level of pushing depends on how much they have historically got away with and how much resentment there is.

What’s clear op is neither you nor your husband were in control. You has to leave rhe room ans he physically assaulted his child.

I think this is the fundamental issue, neither of you are equipped to deal with it, if you were you’d have stopped the game and dealt with it calmly before it escalated and your son would have known this is what would occur.

The thing is your son is going to continue to get older. He will not respect either of you for this, so it’s going to get worse, and this means the best thing to do is your husband and you to learn how to deal sith teenagers and diffuse situations. Assaulting them isn’t the answer. And it seems as it’s been escalating for awhile thr ability to deal sith it has been consistently missing

Family counselling isn’t going to help. But if it was then that would be your and your husbands decision. You should not be giving your son the power to decide that. And I’m sure you know, most fourteen year old lads will refuse that sort of thing.

[quote TheImber]@trashaccount

And in Yemen its illegal to be gay, but that doesn't mean I agree and think its wrong.

OPs husband could have left the room like OP did, but how exactly would that address the boys behaviour and prevent it getting worse next time?[/quote]
Thelmber you seem hellbent on defending this abuser come what may. Where do you draw the line? He picked him up by the lapels, pinned him to the ground and threatened to show him what a smack is. So you're fine with that. What about a punch in the face? Is that okay? A kick in the ribs? Okay with that?

I'm really on the fence here.
I think your reaction to your son's behaviour - walking away - isn't doing anyone any favours. To outrageously accuse you of hitting him - I'd be more worried about that! There were several of you in the room and no one saw anything that could translate to a slap? If that's the god's honest truth and he was still insisting you did then I'm not surprised by your DH's reaction. A scare tactic, as long as it was only that! He was shocked, not hurt. Are you not concerned about your DS accusing you of assaulting him? What next?
On the other side of the fence - what is your son going to learn from your DH behaviour and yours? Total opposites - he has one parent absolutely OTT and one who walks away.

Porcupineinwaiting

I agree with you, that was the whole point of my post

@Walkaround both I think.

They have got to the point where each of them sees the others behaviour as a personal attack.

So an example would be H asks DS to unload the dishwasher. DS will huff and say I’ve already done it twice today. Which he hasn’t. Why are you asking me. Grump/moan/whinge. He’ll often add a ridiculous statement suggesting he’s the only one that does anything in the house.

H will then get cross, often responding why can’t you just do what you’re told.

Then they both rant at each other.

H gets really wound up by the absurd statements. Says DS is “lying”. I take view that whilst what he is saying is certainly untrue it’s not a lie. It’s just absurd hyperbole designed to deflect from whatever the task is.

Can I also challenge the idea that any kind of physical chastisement is always wrong?

When my DD was younger, she was wilful and stubborn, but not really 'bad'. We used timeouts a lot with her. She absolutely hated them and would cry and cry and cry. We kept putting her back on for the prescribed amount of time, and every time she came off we restarted the clock. She would eventually capitulate and say sorry, admit she was wrong etc but it was a an absolute ordeal that left us and her emotionally and physically drained. It genuinely affected her badly.

Contrast that with the few times we gave her a smacked bottom or leg, there were a few minutes of tears, then lesson learnt and back off to play with no further issues.

Yet some on here would characterise the timeout as 'reasonable punishment', and the smacking as 'disgusting abuse' despite timeouts deeply affecting here and smacking not causing any issues whatsoever.

Which objectively caused more harm in the long run I wonder?

She is now a well balanced young adult who actually agrees that being smacked in a controlled way was the best thing for her.

Teenagers years can be testing in most households. For a parent to want to hit their teen it must be a deep and built up issue. I’m not sure what to suggest OP.

I would be pissed off too. I probably would stress to your H that if it ever happens again you will kick him right out.

Also instead of arguing with DS why doesn’t your husband be the bigger person (being older) and just walk away? Suggest he starts doing this because it will escalate if your H can’t leave things.

My only other concern is that your DS was sobbing and your H continued! If you were not home... how would it of ended?

Christ!

No wonder there are so many arrogant, entitled little shits, just in my local area, with people like the hysterical posters on here insisting that a father should be kicked out of his own home that he works and pays for, for trying to sort out an obnoxious, arrogant teenage boy who’d upset his mother. I hope he got a fright. The Dad didn’t physically harm him according to the OP. I assume he squared up to his Dad? Is that why he took him down?

You can be driven to the absolute limit with teens and losing your shit occasionally means you’re human!

OP I assume you’ve spoken to your DS afterwards and he’s OK. Your DH apologised. Hopefully he’ll learn to watch his mouth in future.

As for coming back from this, perhaps you could challenge your DS on his behaviour rather than walking out of the room and leaving him to your DH? How does that correct him?

@toxtethOgradyUSA

It seems like you are being deliberately obtuse. Of course punching is not acceptable, while still technically physical punishment, it is totally different from simply pinning someone to the ground and obviously far to extreme.

Your position is like criticising someone who puts a toddler on a timeout for 5 minutes by saying, 'what next, you going to isolate them for a day?! why don't you just lock them under the stairs, would that be acceptable as well?!

Its an absurd line to take.

My fried's second son was horrible teenager (DS1 was ok). When her DH tried to square up to him, mother would always be on her son's side. After particularly bad argument and a bit of physical scuffle, mother threw father out. Result: younger son is in prison now, whereas, an older son is doing very well. Mother is very lonely and wishes she hadn't thrown her DH out, as the boy needed discipline at that age and stage in his life.
I will probably be accused of promoting violence, but sometimes teenagers have to be shown who is in charge.
Mind you, only child's father/mother is entitled to discipline them, no partners!

@Northernparent68

Perhaps your son has leant not to push boundaries, if he’s recovered from this so can you

👍

Someone asked what the escalation was and says the hitting claim is weird, if he’s never been hit. Neither me nor H have ever smacked any of the DC.

The build up is ridiculous but here goes:

We’d been talking about the state of the world and DD referenced “Karen’s” I responded that I thought that was a misogynistic term and DS called me a “boomer”. There was a bit of back and forth about how clueless about the world H and I are, and in return they were teased a bit about their over privileged life. In hindsight they are sensitive to being told how fortunate they are.

DS then leant across me (to grab the dice or snacks) so that his torso was right across me and his sweatshirt had ridden up so his boxers were on display and in my face so I went to ping the waistband.

It was silly gesture (but the sort of thing that would be atypical between us) and I think he must have been still smarting about the conversation because he got cross and said “don’t try and pull my trousers down”. I laughed and said of course I wasn’t trying to pull your trousers down.

He repeated it a couple more times.... I told him not to be ridiculous and then excused myself. I said I was going to the loo. H told him he was being a fool and then DS switched to saying I’d smacked him.