Husband attacked teenage son

[Throwawaynameforthis]

On Saturday night my husband pinned DS to the floor.

We were playing a family game and DS (14) was being annoying, escalating to rudeness. He accused me of “smacking him” which I absolutely did not do.

I took myself out of the room for a minute and the next thing I hear is H yelling, DD15 shouting at H to stop and DD9 sobbing.

As I walk into room DS is legging it out the house looking terrified, quickly followed by DD. From what I can work out H picked DS up by then lapels and got him on floor and was telling him he’d “show him what a smack is”.

I found DS quickly and then DD and went home. H apologised to the DC but I’m so angry. I don’t know what to do. This has been escalating for months.

Is this it? Is there any recovering from this? For me or the DC?

[quote trashaccount]@BertieBloopsMum He never threatened his mother?[/quote]
Yes, oops, I see that!

But I do wonder what went on between the son and the father in his mother's absence.

Either way, imo this is a fixable situation. And one from which, by the sounds of it, the family could benefit by working on a few things.

OP you've said you regularly walk away from your DS.

Maybe you could try addressing his disrespectful behaviour so it doesn't come to this kind of thing.

@thelmber Except giving your child a time-out doesn't demonstrate to them that you experience out of control behaviour which is scary (unless someone will argue that his behaviour was controlled, in which case that to me suggests intent).

[quote TheImber]@trashaccount if an adult put another adult onto an isolation spot and refused to let them leave until they admitted they had done something wrong we would also call the police, but we are happy for parents to do that with children, we just call it a 'timeout' and its fine.

The point I'm making is that comparing the actions parents are allowed to take to discipline or control children to actions that unrelated people can or can't to do to one another is misleading and simply wrong.

OPs husband is the parent, her DS is the child. DS was warned and warned, then disciplined in a manner where he has suffered no harm, and has now probably learnt a valuable lesson in not pushing people too far.

As another poster on here said, DS may just avoid having a bottle pushed into his face in a bar one day if he remembers this incident.[/quote]
So in your parallel universe, a dad who pins his child to the ground and threatens to show him what a smack is is doing him a favour in the long-term Thelmber ? Do you realise how dim-witted that sounds?

a Dad has shown force when his son threatened his mother

Now there is minimising and there is this. He assaulted his son and the boy didn’t threaten his mother. He attacked his own child.

I suspect this thread is too close to the bone for a lot of readers. I suspect a lot of people defending this bully have partners who are also aggressive to their children.

I agree, but apparently all these abusive fathers are doing their sons a favour by saving them from worse thrashings in the future.

@Bluntness100 what exactly do you find interesting?

I’ve made two posts about my DS where I called him obnoxious and arrogant as part of the context. In my second post I’ve written twice as many positives about him.

I have nothing to say about my H at this point: I hate him for what he’s done and I’m angry beyond belief. His actions speak for themselves. I’m not sure there is anything to add 🤷‍♀️

"DS repeated that I smacked him; H told him not to be ridiculous, there was some further back and forth in similar fashion and H grabbed him and got him on the floor.

DS ran off because he was scared and angry. DD followed because she wanted to check DS was ok."

This is what happened @BertieBloopsMum. No threat to DH, no suggestion that there was any imminent danger. Bad behaviour was met with scaring a child into submission.

then disciplined in a manner where he has suffered no harm, and has now probably learnt a valuable lesson in not pushing people too far.As another poster on here said, DS may just avoid having a bottle pushed into his face in a bar one day if he remembers this incident

I guess you mean physical hard, and not the mental harm of being attacked by your own parent, the very person who is supposed to make you feel safe? And you know violence teaches violence.

If you’re assaulting a kid and them saying well hopefully it will stop someone else hitting you then you need to get some urgent help and stay away from children.

It's interesting how many people have jumped to the conclusion that the ds was threatening his mother, even though there is no evidence of this in any of the OP's posts.

The OP has said that her ds was being annoying and rude. She later used the words arrogant and absurd. No mention of aggressive unless I've missed it.

@toxteth

The boy has learnt that actions have consequences. An important lesson to learn, made all the more powerful because as the OP has said, her husband isn't a violent person who has no history of this kind of thing.

Of course in everything context is key. Id be interested to hear the husbands side of this, not OPs version of his side of what went on.

The boy has learnt that actions have consequences

He sure has. Now when he perceives someone to be arrogant or rude to him he knows to assault them.

A similar story with a hopeful outcome - I had a BF in my early twenties who had had a terrible relationship with his dad as a teen, involving physical violence on both sides. They had family counselling. By the time I met the family about 6/7 years later they had a very good relationship. I got to know the parents quite well and everything seemed pretty normal.

BF and I went our separate ways after about 18 months but I remember him as a kind and respectful man. They seemed like a nice family altogether. They had had serious problems, but had managed to deal with them.

@TheImber "The boy has learnt that actions have consequences." No the boy has learnt that in order to get your way, you need to get loud, physically restrain people and threaten them to instil fear.

The h reacted inappropriately.

Did your son get punished for accusing you of smacking him? (I don't mean what happened with his Dad). Walking away and not sorting out his outrageous behaviour is sending a strong message to all of the kids. If he accused his sister would you have sent her out of the room? I understand that you can't sort out his behaviour immediately if he's raging but he needs to be told how outrageous he's acting. If he did that with his peers there's a high possibility of violence too (which he must know)

I don't think counselling is a choice for him to make. If things are tense in your household then everybody needs to participate because you don't want things getting worse.

My ds was a nightmare until he was 17ish but by luck he's a better person now. We've had some massive arguments which have never been violent but were awful.

@trashaccount

Sounds like OPs husband was very much in control.

This was a one off incident by OPs own admission and we don't know the context. Could he have dealt with it in a better way? Possibly, but it was dealt with none the less.

Those characterising this as 'abuse' and telling OP her relationship is over are probably also the type that think parents who give their kid the occasional smacked bottoms are disgusting abusers. 🙄

This thread is actually very interesting.

Because there is an idea, which is common now, that if we tell people that their behaviour will provoke people, then we are victim blaming.

In this case teen pushing and pushing parents until they react.

But that is one step away from also saying - teenage girls, it isn't sensible to walk down a dark alley on your own, if you do you might get attacked - no, not allowed to say that, it is victim blaming.

At what point as a society did we decide that it has to be one or the other? At what pont did people stop taking responsibility for their own actions?
There is a balance here. There are 2 sides.

As a teacher I used to have a child in my class who loved to wind people up, until then, at playtime they would hit him.
I had to punish the hitter. But then I took that child to one side and was very clear, when you wind people up they will react. If you are deliberately winding someone up, don't be surprised if they loose it. Take responsibility for your behaviour. yes, they need to have enough control not to hit, but guess what? Everyone has a breaking point, if you are being deliberately provocative, don't be surprised to get a reaction.

Now, as adults, we must have a high breaking point, we must learn to walk away if we are nearing our breaking point, and there is a particular dynamic between teens and parents which is hard, but still, I am disturbed by this extension of victim blaming

@TheImber In Scotland, spanking is illegal so yes I'd consider that abuse.

"Sounds like OPs husband was very much in control" then he had every capacity to leave the room and de-escalate the situation.

I can assure you that the police and social services would categorise this assault as abuse.

I’m curious about the punishment too. Obvs the op couldn’t punish him after his father assaulted him but I don’t understand why if he was being rude, the op and her husband didn’t just end the game and send him to his room or something, why walk away and let it continue.

The op walking away and the father physically attacking him was not the way to handle it. Shutting it down at the right time would have avoided this mess

Well it's not great but not irreparable. I grew up in a large family in the 60's and 70's and tussles between male members of the household weren't unusual. Also a memorable occasion when my 5'6" mother took a mop to my 6'2" brother who was a nightmare teen. Doesn't seem to have done any long term damage as we all get on well. Your husband's actions need addressing of course, and your son's behaviour also. Perhaps some family therapy would help?

If he’d done it to someone else then he’d rightly be spending some time with thepolice

So it would be right for him to spend time with the police if it were anyone else he had done this too? But not your son?

Being obnoxious is not an excuse for your husband to react how he did. That is what teenagers are like. It was not alright for your husband to pin him to the floor just because he is his dad. If anything, that is an extra reason not to pin him to the floor. I work in a school and if one of your DC told me this story, I would be going straight to the safeguarding officer. Because this IS abuse, action would be taken.

@trashaccount

And in Yemen its illegal to be gay, but that doesn't mean I agree and think its wrong.

OPs husband could have left the room like OP did, but how exactly would that address the boys behaviour and prevent it getting worse next time?

A good counselor that's a good fit can often draw out the more reluctant types, though considering different options like single or group therapy separate from the family may be helpful. While some counselor's prefer everyone involved being together, it can be better to work on things separately or with other people to get different perspectives and a chance to work on skills without the emotional baggage already in the relationship.

With the son just being mouthy, I think this is a ridiculously violent escalation. Even with the repeated accusations, there are better ways to de-escalate things, which the husband needs to learn. Walking away is a commonly recommended method, but it may be worth looking into other ones.

I could see pinning a teenager if the teen was being really violent, as a last resort to prevent further harm. It's not great, but I could see why it could come to that.

@TheImber

OP you've said you regularly walk away from your DS.

Maybe you could try addressing his disrespectful behaviour so it doesn't come to this kind of thing.

How would you like the OP to address the teenage son’s disrespectful behaviour? Time out? No sweets for a week?