Is my girlfriend selfish or is it me?

[BlingersMcBling]

Ok I’ll try and keep it brief.. I’ve been with gf around 5 years. When we first got together we went out all the time and I paid for everything, this didn’t bother me initially but after around 6 months it started to annoy me how she would never even offer to buy even one round, it was like an expectation. It got to the point where once on our way for drinks in a taxi I had to actually ask her if she was taking any money out and we stopped at a cash machine and she did but she didn’t seem happy about it. Anyway as time went on I got more and more frustrated and we argued a lot and things got a margin better. But lots of stuff went on, she left jobs so I bailed her out, her car broke so I paid to repair it... tons of stuff. I’m generally pretty generous and so this wouldn’t normally bother me but I ended up getting in a bit of debt and we moved house and I was really struggling and she had more disposable income than me but it was a real struggle getting her to pay for anything, now the tables were turned and it really pi55ed me off because of the amount of times I’d helped her out and now she was reluctant to help me out-even though the reason I was in loads of debt was paying for her when she was in a mess etc... anyway fast forward a few years and thing got slightly better as I’d started to stand up for myself and we had many arguments but long story short our house costs were around 1200 a month so we split it 600 each. Then she loses her job, gets another part time job so I let her pay 400 and I pay rest as I earn more money.. she complains she never has any money so I drop it to 300... now the issue... I now want to buy a house (was only renting before) I’ve seen a house we like and it will only be in my name as her credit is bad. It’s 300k and the house running costs will be around 2000 a month. I said I want her to up her payments to 500 but she is complaining about this saying it won’t leave her with much money. It will leave her with a few hundred a month but this is because she doesn’t want to work full time (she works 4 days a week) The problem is I now do earn a lot more money than her, and she keeps bringing this up saying why should she be left skint but I just can’t see it being that bad having to only pay 500 towards the house. The mortgage is 1100, council tax 200, other bills 500... plus she has 2 kids which is the reason I needed to get a big expensive 4 bed anyway! But maybe she is right and I do earn a lot more money than her and tbh normally it wouldn’t bother me BUT I don’t want to feel like a mug because of what’s happened in the past. Does she have a point and is it me being selfish? Is it wrong of me to expect her to work more to contribute towards a house that is ultimately not in her name? Sorry for long one I just felt like I needed to set the scene and thanks.

@haggistramp

I think most people's views of the OP's girlfriends are based on:

Her assumption that op should pay for everything while they were dating and feelng put out when challenged on it.

Her flouncing out of jobs and allowing the OP to get into debt to bail her out.

Her reluctance to help the OP when he found himself in financial difficulty.

Her choice to work part time while expecting to pay only a pittance towards household bills in spite of the fact that her childcare needs are met by the OP.

This is not someone that I would be happy getting committing to a full partnership with. If she expects the OP to provide security for her through marriage then I think the onus is now on her to demonstrate that she is commited to a partnership. A good place to start might be to contribute a bit more to the household expenses, even if that might mean going to full time hours.

Her assumption that op should pay for everything while they were dating and feelng put out when challenged on it. - Did it ever occur to the op that his gf perhaps couldn't afford things when they were dating. A single parent of 2 children earning only £15k, even with benefit top ups, is not living an extravagant lifestyle. In fact, Id probably consider it breadline or below especially if she had a high rent to pay. Not ideal, but she was perhaps too embarrassed to say. As a higher earner its not that hard to understand and to show a bit of grace, either go places that are free or within the poorer persons budget or to accept that as the higher earner you will be paying.

Im not understanding how the gf could have ever had more disposable income than the op. She was either living on her own and receiving wages and benefit top up (which I have said probably left her near the breadline) or she only had her wages (in which case she is probably struggling to keep her head afloat). It maybe wasnt reluctance to help the struggling op, but she physically couldnt.

The g/f works 4 out of 5 days, that strikes me as more full time than part time, especially as she has two children to look after. Its not just as easy as saying going full time, there are perhaps not hours available.

Tbh I think the gf needs to leave the op and find someone else, for her own benefit. The op comes across at best as financially inept and worst as financially abusive.

Tbh I think the gf needs to leave the op and find someone else, for her own benefit. The op comes across at best as financially inept and worst as financially abusive.

But if the roles were reversed it would be a "kick his arse to the kerb cock lodger" response.

The OP has made valid point throughout, albeit not in the best way. I. E. in regards to how chores are divided.... I would be pissed off if I had to spend my weekends cleaning when my DH would then Swan around one day a week on a day off and I was picking up all the slack.

If this were a woman, everyone would be saying do not put him on mortgage but he should be paying 50% for bills and nominal rent. This is no different.

@haggistramp

Her assumption that op should pay for everything while they were dating and feelng put out when challenged on it. - Did it ever occur to the op that his gf perhaps couldn't afford things when they were dating. A single parent of 2 children earning only £15k, even with benefit top ups, is not living an extravagant lifestyle. In fact, Id probably consider it breadline or below especially if she had a high rent to pay. Not ideal, but she was perhaps too embarrassed to say. As a higher earner its not that hard to understand and to show a bit of grace, either go places that are free or within the poorer persons budget or to accept that as the higher earner you will be paying.

Im not understanding how the gf could have ever had more disposable income than the op. She was either living on her own and receiving wages and benefit top up (which I have said probably left her near the breadline) or she only had her wages (in which case she is probably struggling to keep her head afloat). It maybe wasnt reluctance to help the struggling op, but she physically couldnt.

The g/f works 4 out of 5 days, that strikes me as more full time than part time, especially as she has two children to look after. Its not just as easy as saying going full time, there are perhaps not hours available.

Tbh I think the gf needs to leave the op and find someone else, for her own benefit. The op comes across at best as financially inept and worst as financially abusive.

If she couldn't afford to pay her way on the date (s) then perhaps she should have suggested somewhere cheaper or free, but opportunity struck and so she carried on accepting free drinks, food etc.. Some people are not high earners, either they don't have the capacity for it, or they are not inclined, which is fine, but live within your means and don't mooch of others. She's only being defended by some because she's female, if it was a man, he would be getting called all the names under the sun.

@haggistramp

Such good points and well made. In the light of OP not giving info about incomes I'm feeling a little worried for his partner. There seems to be a naive acceptance of what he's saying without considering the broader picture and this could easily be an abusive picture. I think she may have lost a lot of income when they moved in, that possibly she did want cheaper nights out and he rail roaded her into doing what he wanted and that he expects her to continue doing all the shopping and housework whilst also earning more. Possibly I'm wrong of course, but why the reluctance to provide simple info? Pulling wool over people's eyes perhaps?

haggistramp posted:

"Its something that needs to be discussed prior to a high earner moving in with a low earner and their children, but absolutely, it is expected legally (and I think morally/socially the majority would agree) that a high earner has financial obligations towards step children when moving in with the low earner parent. Further, i think its disgusting that on this thread on a site used by many low earner parents (mostly women), that such a low earner woman would be painted as a freeloader and called a cuntlodger because she is a low earner. Its common bloody sense that a low earner cannot contribute to the bills the same as high earner and I find it very telling that the op has not been back to this thread to update us all with how much his partner actually earns."

@haggistramp Your post has changed my view - maybe the girlfriend is not the freeloading user that OP's posts imply. Although the fact that she is keen to marry him might indicate that she is looking for financial security for herself and her children (which any mother would want). I'm in two minds about this now, but still think that there is much about this thread that doesn't add up. Maybe the OP just fancied starting a hot debate about a hypothetical scenario.

Why don't you combine all your incomes, and split whatever is left after bills, children etc equally.

There's no chance I'd split my income with a man who has 2 kids and earns a lot less than me.

That would be a very foolish thing to do from a financial POV...Why should I take on the financial burden of his kids?

Its common bloody sense that a low earner cannot contribute to the bills the same as high earner

True. But the OP is not even asking that. The OP seems to be asking 25% of the running costs of the house, despite only using 25% of the food, hot water, bedrooms etc.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs

Its common bloody sense that a low earner cannot contribute to the bills the same as high earner

True. But the OP is not even asking that. The OP seems to be asking 25% of the running costs of the house, despite only using 25% of the food, hot water, bedrooms etc.

The girlfriend buys the groceries so I think the OP is asking for much more than 25%, more like 40%.

Youd have to be seriously stupid, fucking selfish and actually narcissistic to think that youd have no obligations towards the children, or it made the parent a freeloader. What do you expect the children to live on, fresh air?

Totally disagree with this. A parent needs to ensure they can support and put a roof over the head of their children.

I would never rely on a man who isn't the father of my children to support them in any way shape or form.

If the extra benefits are a better deal for her then she should live in her own house with her kids and have the security of not having to leave if the relationship ends.

I don't understand why women put themselves in such a vulnerable situation.

As a pp she's not doing the OP any favours by looking after her own kids....and pointing thus out is not misogyny.

Far too many people throw out that word without really thinking about it.

It's like a new trend for anything a poster disagrees with where women are concerned.

OP.....I can see you carrying her financially for years to come and it will only breed resentment. When you see issues like this in advance, then proceeding to live together doesn't make sense.

Of course she wants to get married to you...it's financially beneficial to her...not so much for you though.

HerNameWasEliza

Yes, but the groceries are also 75% for her and two kids, and he (do we actually know the OP is he not she?) pays for their takeaways and alcohol on top of the other house costs, which apparently come to more than the shop.

Also within the overall household bills is car insurance for the Gf.

It's a weird one. OP clearly has a lot of resentment, so just needs to call it quits..

It's a weird one. OP clearly has a lot of resentment, so just needs to call it quits..

OP has had enough of being a taken for a ride by this woman.. I say fair enough.. but lets not belittle his situation just because he is a man.... that would be sexist right 🌺

Yes she's taking the piss. Get rid and buy that house on your own.

I was in the exact position you are in 15 years ago. In the end, I accepted that he was never going to be financial but the love I got in the relationship was compensation until.... he had a MH issue rear it's ugly head and we've now been separated for 18 months. He is still in the family home. I have a new house with the entire amount mortgaged. We are doing our property settlement and despite barely contributing over the 20 years we were together, he is now fighting for 50% of everything including the $150k I had before we met. I would consider the half/half thing if his unemployment time resulted in him caring for our kids/house but this wasn't the case. I had a nanny for the kids because despite not working, he just wasn't able to commit to looking after the kids. My situation is not that unique and I just wanted to alert you to what the future may look like. Best of luck with everything.

Why are you with this person? It is not going to end well. Are you going to be able to evict her and her kids from your house when this mismatched relationship goes horribly wrong ( which it unfortunately will!

@haggistramp

Her assumption that op should pay for everything while they were dating and feelng put out when challenged on it. - Did it ever occur to the op that his gf perhaps couldn't afford things when they were dating. A single parent of 2 children earning only £15k, even with benefit top ups, is not living an extravagant lifestyle. In fact, Id probably consider it breadline or below especially if she had a high rent to pay. Not ideal, but she was perhaps too embarrassed to say. As a higher earner its not that hard to understand and to show a bit of grace, either go places that are free or within the poorer persons budget or to accept that as the higher earner you will be paying.

Im not understanding how the gf could have ever had more disposable income than the op. She was either living on her own and receiving wages and benefit top up (which I have said probably left her near the breadline) or she only had her wages (in which case she is probably struggling to keep her head afloat). It maybe wasnt reluctance to help the struggling op, but she physically couldnt.

The g/f works 4 out of 5 days, that strikes me as more full time than part time, especially as she has two children to look after. Its not just as easy as saying going full time, there are perhaps not hours available.

Tbh I think the gf needs to leave the op and find someone else, for her own benefit. The op comes across at best as financially inept and worst as financially abusive.

I agree

Sorry I couldn’t get on yesterday guys and thanks loss for all your comments some very conflicting views and this is good as it gives some balance. A lot of people are asking what we both earn and a breakdown of our outgoing so here goes... like I said at the moment I’m contracting which has enabled me to get out of debt and get a deposit for a house, however this is expiring in November so I will be going back to a permanent position where I generally earn around 40k and this is what I will be earning if/when I bought the house, though tbh I’m now 99% not going to go for it.

I take home around 2450, her 1250 (1100 salary + 150 child tax credits)

This comes out of my account:
Rent: 625
Council tax: 110
Gas and electric: 100
Water: 35
Internet: 35
Netflix: 9
Tv licence: 14
Her car: 89
Her car insurance: 45
Child support: 300
My car: 350
My car insurance: 40
Petrol: 100
Phone: 10
Entertainment: 250

Total: 2112
Left: 338
(+300 from her): 638

Comes out of her account:
Money towards house: 300
School clubs: 75
Food shopping: 240
Petrol: 60
Phone: 10
Clothes: 25

Total: 710
Left: 537

The issue is if we move into a this new house (and she wants to as much as me btw-as long as she doesn’t have to pay any extra) then the rent would become 1100 mortgage, council tax would double and water and other bills would go up.
I get it that you have to share money and I earn more but it’s the fact she chooses to work 4 days a week and it feels like I’m subsidizing that. When I’ve spoke. To her about this she says she couldn’t do her job 5 days a week it’s too stressful... I just think who has that option? I literally could not afford to work 4 days a week it just isn’t an option.
Also a lot of people saying that the takeaways and going out are optional, yeh I totally get that but if we got to a position where she lost her job then I would obviously switch this to buying food. 250 may seem a lot on this but if we go out for drinks once a month even then I can easily get through 200 in one night when paying for 2.. tbh it’s prob more like 500 I spend and the rest.

So yes currently she paying her way even taking into account the debt you blame her for. I think not going for it is absolutely the right idea.

but I've got to say if i was left with anywhere near £600 a month free cash on my own home with living someone i loved id consider myself the cat that got to cream.

By that stage I wouldn't care who was carrying who.

@OMGMyLifeIsCrazy

I was in the exact position you are in 15 years ago. In the end, I accepted that he was never going to be financial but the love I got in the relationship was compensation until.... he had a MH issue rear it's ugly head and we've now been separated for 18 months. He is still in the family home. I have a new house with the entire amount mortgaged. We are doing our property settlement and despite barely contributing over the 20 years we were together, he is now fighting for 50% of everything including the $150k I had before we met. I would consider the half/half thing if his unemployment time resulted in him caring for our kids/house but this wasn't the case. I had a nanny for the kids because despite not working, he just wasn't able to commit to looking after the kids. My situation is not that unique and I just wanted to alert you to what the future may look like. Best of luck with everything.

I feel for you, that is so wrong and I hear about this all the time, though normally it is the man that is left in your position. Were you married?

@Hazelnutlatteplease

So yes currently she paying her way even taking into account the debt you blame her for. I think not going for it is absolutely the right idea.

but I've got to say if i was left with anywhere near £600 a month free cash on my own home with living someone i loved id consider myself the cat that got to cream.

By that stage I wouldn't care who was carrying who.

I would be the same, the reason I’m not and that there is resentment is because of what happened in the beginning which is why I put it in. Can’t seem to shake the fact that I feel she took the piss once so she’ll do it again but maybe I need to forget about the past and clean the slate - I’m probably judging her now on what she did in the past. But having said that you kind of judge people based on their actions I guess.

I think she would be foolish to help pay your mortgage off when she is not on the house deeds. You could kick her out at any time and then she is on the streets with children.

But other than that one point, she has been a free loader from the start, I don’t know why you have put up with it for five years and are even contemplating buying a house for her to share with you.

Yes of course they were. And the children were jointly theirs It's not the same situation as in the OP at all.

In marriage you promise in sickness (mental health is in sickness) and in health and sign a legal contract. I dont think anyone's suggesting you marry her.

Two of the reasons id never marry again, I have assets and I know id walk if i had to.

But OP your figures are still waaaaaay out. You can't feed four people for a month £240 without lots of mumsnet chicken. And £200 on a night out is optional.

Have you both gone through your bank accounts and both write down what you spend on everything in a month? I think you might find it illuminating

@RainingBatsAndFrogs

HerNameWasEliza

Yes, but the groceries are also 75% for her and two kids, and he (do we actually know the OP is he not she?) pays for their takeaways and alcohol on top of the other house costs, which apparently come to more than the shop.

Also within the overall household bills is car insurance for the Gf.

The figure of 40% excludes the car costs and the OP also has a child who eats the food (stays every other weekend I think) so it's less than 75% for her and her kids. Even if there were just 4 eating the food, I couldn't see the age of the kids but it would only be 75% if they were eating the same amount as an adult which if they are young is highly unlikely.

Yes, the OP has two kids who are creating some of the household costs but I think it's important not to malign her with poorly calculated figures of how much she contributes.

@BlingersMcBling Yes to be honest I've thought your way beyond saving the relationship. People write/rewite the narrative to suit where they are now. I've no idea whether she's a freeloader, there's too many holes in what your saying....

It's a casual relationship. It's hadnt got the depth to survive you owning property. Face it back to living seperately in seperate houses if you want the relationship to survive and own the house.

Of course she might not like it