Is my girlfriend selfish or is it me?

[BlingersMcBling]

Ok I’ll try and keep it brief.. I’ve been with gf around 5 years. When we first got together we went out all the time and I paid for everything, this didn’t bother me initially but after around 6 months it started to annoy me how she would never even offer to buy even one round, it was like an expectation. It got to the point where once on our way for drinks in a taxi I had to actually ask her if she was taking any money out and we stopped at a cash machine and she did but she didn’t seem happy about it. Anyway as time went on I got more and more frustrated and we argued a lot and things got a margin better. But lots of stuff went on, she left jobs so I bailed her out, her car broke so I paid to repair it... tons of stuff. I’m generally pretty generous and so this wouldn’t normally bother me but I ended up getting in a bit of debt and we moved house and I was really struggling and she had more disposable income than me but it was a real struggle getting her to pay for anything, now the tables were turned and it really pi55ed me off because of the amount of times I’d helped her out and now she was reluctant to help me out-even though the reason I was in loads of debt was paying for her when she was in a mess etc... anyway fast forward a few years and thing got slightly better as I’d started to stand up for myself and we had many arguments but long story short our house costs were around 1200 a month so we split it 600 each. Then she loses her job, gets another part time job so I let her pay 400 and I pay rest as I earn more money.. she complains she never has any money so I drop it to 300... now the issue... I now want to buy a house (was only renting before) I’ve seen a house we like and it will only be in my name as her credit is bad. It’s 300k and the house running costs will be around 2000 a month. I said I want her to up her payments to 500 but she is complaining about this saying it won’t leave her with much money. It will leave her with a few hundred a month but this is because she doesn’t want to work full time (she works 4 days a week) The problem is I now do earn a lot more money than her, and she keeps bringing this up saying why should she be left skint but I just can’t see it being that bad having to only pay 500 towards the house. The mortgage is 1100, council tax 200, other bills 500... plus she has 2 kids which is the reason I needed to get a big expensive 4 bed anyway! But maybe she is right and I do earn a lot more money than her and tbh normally it wouldn’t bother me BUT I don’t want to feel like a mug because of what’s happened in the past. Does she have a point and is it me being selfish? Is it wrong of me to expect her to work more to contribute towards a house that is ultimately not in her name? Sorry for long one I just felt like I needed to set the scene and thanks.

Have either/both of you been married before?

I don't think you two sound compatible at all. You have different financial values so there is always going to be conflict. I'd be thinking of a nice affordable house for just me and the huge relief of so much less conflict.

Thanks for update OP, thought you were a lot younger for some reason, but with an adult child you must be 40s.

I totally understand the difficulty of the situation. It is really hard being in a relationship with someone earning significantly less than you, and I certainly wouldn't want to share assets.

There appears to be a lot of built up resentment, so not sure this relationship will stand the test of time. Also, as I mentioned earlier sounds like a pretty bleak retirement with her not having a substantial pension? What are you going to do, work until your 70?!

Also, I certainly wouldn't get married, especially with the issues your having. It makes absolutely no sense, just gives her some security, by effectively taking away from you. Looking at it brutally the kids aren't your responsibility if you split.

I would just maintain status quo, and possibly look for an exit strategy.

Op
Of course she should pay her way.
But...
There's a bit of a martyr tone in your post.
' I got in debt because of her'
' I have to buy a big house because of her'.

No... you are a grown up. Don't buy things you can't afford. You seem to really resent her.
None of it seems healthy.

It sounds like you should bin her off.

Lots of good arguments from previous posters. Personally If both her children are in school I would be asking her to increase her hours at work because she can. Then she can't complain about money? I'm currently on mat leave pay but plan on going back to work in January working in evenings when DH can supervise baby and kids, this will carry on until littlest is older and at nursery then I will be increasing my hours straight away. I hate not contributing as much to our joint account. I always have that niggling guilt. I think a good serious chat about all your feelings about this would be a good idea. Lay all your cards on the table

The problem is there seems to be so much imbalance in the relationship.

You were unhappy doing all the cleaning so the end result is she does all the cleaning.

You are unhappy about the financial situation early on in the relationship so you feel that justifies taking a hard line position now.

Maybe she is selfish and a user. But there doesn't appear to be much discussion at the time to say I'm not happy we need to find another way. What looks like happening is the building up resentment for punishment later.

Another worrisome comment was the main food shop vs takeaways alcohol. The responsibility is unbalanced but you are viewing these as equal. If you wanted to not pay takeaways or alcohol for a month you could do so, you'd save a fair bit and no-one would suffer. If she wanted to save a bit of money she couldn't just say i won't pay for the main shop this month, everyone would suffer. An unexpected bill puts financial drain on the unnecessaries for you, the necessities for her. You might feel yourself magnanimous in stepping in and helping when partially causing the situation in the first place.

There's a lot of talk of an equitable/equal share of the costs in the relationship, not a lot of the equitable share of the spoils. Takeaways and alcohol are spoils, fun "pocket" money are spoils. Main shop and bills are costs.

Living with a BF in his property with zero housing security is very, very high risk for a woman with DC.
This 100%.

The benefit of a proper serious relationship is that everything is shared whilst not keeping score. This is a casual relationship that has progressed to living together without the all needed transition in attitude. Thats possible when neither has much to share or lose in the first place. You now will have something valuable, your long term housing is as secure as it possibly can be. Whatever the financial situation, she actually has less. And much less long term. Her home is completely insecure and every penny that goes into helping pay for your security is a penny less she has to pay for hers.

I dont know if you should break up or not. But i do know that the implications of you buying a house as a seperate unmarried entity have not sunk in. Perhaps for either of you. You are happy to share the costs but not the security or the spoils.

Getting on well 90% of the time wont matter two hoots the first time you have an argument and you think "why are you arguing with me, I'm the one putting a roof over your head." The first time you say it put loud, and you will, the precarious nature of her position might become apparent to her too, although by then it will be too late.

If you want this relationship to continue you need far more consideration of her needs, whether she's selfish or not.

@BlingersMcBling

She isn’t expected to foot half the bills. At the moment (in current rental property) the bills amount to around 1k a month (rent:625, council:110, gasAndElec:100, water:35, internet: 35, tv licence: 15). She gives me 300 of which around 140 is for her car (this goes out of my account as she has bad credit) so she’s giving me 160 less than 20% of house running costs. This is ignoring food (which she pays for) and going out, alcohol and takeaways (which I pay for and is a lot more than food costs). I pay for kids in terms of things like takeaways going out and petrol etc, she pays for their clothes etc (but this is mirrored with my kids but she doesn’t pay for takeaways for them etc)

There is still no info here about her actual income and outgoings. She is 4 days a week and you say doesn't earn that much, so does she have say 1k a month coming in? How much does she spend on food for 4 (sometimes 5) people? My guess is you don't want to eat too economically so she's easily spending 400 a month on that? So she's spending 400 plus 160 (560) for joint essentials maybe? and you're spending 840. Is that right? And if she was bringing in 1k then she'd have 440 a month to clothe herself and her kids, pay for clubs, pay for activities, petrol and repair for her cars, haircuts, presents for kids (and you). If you earn 3.5k a month and give 500 to ex for maintenance then you have 2160 left a month for those things, maybe 2k if you are paying the same towards a car. If that's the case then it's not a partnership at all if you want her to pay another 200 a month out of that 440 and we can see why she would struggle to do so. Do you expect to actually have more than her at the end of the day or are you a partnership? I may have got the figures all wrong and maybe she brings in 2.5k and you bring in 3k after maintenance in which case things look very different but I am wary about slagging off your partner without knowing more.

@BlingersMcBling

In terms of do we want to get married and have kids... she wants to get married, I have been reluctant so far because of these issues.

The reality is that from early on, she has seen you as an easy touch, especially financially. You have acquiesced until you realised how imbalanced the relationship was. Yes you might have some good aspects to the relationship but in reality it has been a relationship of convenience for her, for which without you her life would be far more difficult.....ie you have paid the majority of housing costs, providing childcare etc. If she had to fund a rented house, pay utility bills, childcare for before and after school and holidays...her life would be of significantly poorer quality.

The reality is that some women go into or stay in relationships because of the financial convenience or need. Ask yourself if she would be staying with you if you had been broke or lost your job....I suspect not.

You will always have these thoughts in the back of your mind.

Personally I would consider moving on and definitely do NOT get married as that will lock in her financial dependence on you and which you will find she gets worse and not better. Yes...in the light of that I bet she wants to get married and given you don't want kids, well isn't really a need (from your perspective).

Do you really want to stay with someone who sees you as a convenient back account..and yes sex is good as that is a need for many as well

It should not be this difficult.

How much does she earn monthly? I'm not sure how takeaways and days out csn amount to more than the weekly shop. Are you eating take out every other night and going out every week? Does your child live with you? If not, again I'm not convinced you'd be paying the sane costs as your gf. You will be paying csa, reduced no doubt because of your gf children. If your child does live with you, then your costs would only be half, as you said one of your children is an adult.

@hernameiseliza this is my thoughts exactly. Reading between the lines it appears the gf is getting a shoddy deal, some more strident might see it as financial abuse. I dont think the op is coming off great at all.

There is still no info here about her actual income and outgoings. She is 4 days a week and you say doesn't earn that much, so does she have say 1k a month coming in? How much does she spend on food for 4 (sometimes 5) people? My guess is you don't want to eat too economically so she's easily spending 400 a month on that? So she's spending 400 plus 160 (560) for joint essentials maybe? and you're spending 840. Is that right? And if she was bringing in 1k then she'd have 440 a month to clothe herself and her kids, pay for clubs, pay for activities, petrol and repair for her cars, haircuts, presents for kids (and you). If you earn 3.5k a month and give 500 to ex for maintenance then you have 2160 left a month for those things, maybe 2k if you are paying the same towards a car. If that's the case then it's not a partnership at all if you want her to pay another 200 a month out of that 440 and we can see why she would struggle to do so. Do you expect to actually have more than her at the end of the day or are you a partnership?

I think the problem isn't whether OP should be putting in a disproportionate amount to compensate for her not being able to do so, the problem is that she just is not on a high enough wage to be able to reasonably contribute to the running costs of a four bed house, so shouldn't be buying one or living in one. It isn't right that OP should have to live perpetually skint or work harder for years longer to facilitate her and her kids having a big house. On the amount she is earning, if she is only able to pay £300 a month, she needs to live somewhere cheaper, because it isn't enough.

She is unwilling to increase her hours in order to take some of that strain off OP despite the fact that she is paying far less than most would consider reasonable for a large house with a bedroom for both of her kids, I think it is quite unfair to accuse him of being the one that doesn't view them as a partnership, which many have done.

I think the problem isn't whether OP should be putting in a disproportionate amount to compensate for her not being able to do so, the problem is that she just is not on a high enough wage to be able to reasonably

I disagree, it's nothing to do with the money. The problem is that the girlfriend is not a nice person and is a selfish lazy free loader.

@HibiscusNell Yes, there's a bit of that too.

It sounds like she can afford a 2 bed with bunk beds for the kids type house and is essentially living beyond her means by going for a 4 bed because it's what you can afford. She has to pay rent with you as your lodger. I think you need to step back. I think you are incompatible to some degree.

girlfriend is not a nice person and is a selfish lazy free loader

Without both income details there is absolutely no way of telling if this is true. In fact i have no idea how anyone can say this when she clearly pays all the food. Food could easily be in excess £100. So she could easily be paying around 1/3 of the bills whilst having less than 1/3 of the total household income.

This is the problem with only taking into consideration the costs not the household income as a whole.

When they move into the Ops house, every penny the OP spends on the mortgage he will essentially get back in capital appreciation on the property. Every penny the OPs partner pays on the house the OP will also get back in capital appreciation on the property.... however the OP will be counting the mortgage as a cost. which one is freeloading at that point?

It becomes far more complex when one person buys property.

It would give a lot of posters some clarity if we knew both monthly incomes, then we can see if she is a cuntlodger or genuinely strapped for cash.

Trouble with paying her partner 'rent' is that she'll be helping him buy a house. At the end he'll have that and she'll have nothing. That's not a relationship. If he could say, selling the house at any time, he'd give her back the amount she'd put in, that'd be fair.

I dont think you are being unreasonable asking for 25% of the bills, if you are buying a bigger house so it fits her children she needs to look at working more hours, doing extra work on the side or getting a job that pays more. She sounds like shes quite happy to sit back and relax and let you stress about the important things like keeping a roof over yours and hers and her kids heads. I would be abit wary buying a house with someone who has this attitude. What if you lose your job in the future? As a women its obviously nice when a guy treats you but women shouldnt take advantage of that and it does sound very uneven. Good luck!

I dont think the OP has any intention of telling us how much his gf earns, as he knows that would paint him in such a bad light. I think this thread is so full of mysogyny its actually sad. Do people think stay at home mums in a marriage are cuntlodgers? How about partners (statistically usually female) who are the lower earner, are they all cuntlodgers? Or is this because the children arent biologically the ops? (In which case id argue it doesnt matter. If you enter a relationship with a single parent, if you are the higher earner and the single parent loses all their benefits, then by moving in together the higher earner is agreeing to take on that financial responsibility). The op says she works 4/5 days, so assuming its 28 hours a week on minimum wage, she'd be taking home about £1000 a month. I suspect with the food, her bills and her children she is struggling to make ends meet. Its the OP that wants to move to a bigger house, I suspect the gf is reluctant because its going to end badly for her.

haggistramp

I totally agree

There is a huge difference in security in paying rent in a property you are in the contract for and paying a boyfriends mortgage.
There is also the issue of the boyfriends income potentially preventing her from claiming benefits.
We do not have the full picture.

If she's not on the mortgage and, in the event of a relationship break down, would have no rights to anything from the house (I would check what the legalities are for this), I think it's fine for you to be paying the vast majority of things. Especially, given your respective financial situations, she should be focussing on building her own savings to put her and her kids in a better position if there is any split, as you are the only one that stands to benefit from house ownership.

If she would get something from the sale of the house in a break up I would expect her to contribute more and for you both to be looking at the mortgage as a joint responsibility more.

Hazelnutlatteplease this is how financial abusers get away with it for so long. They paint their victims as lazy good for nothing sponges, a nice bit of DARVO in for good measure, its the poor op who is the victim. Despite the fact the gf works nearly full time but has the unfortunate position of being a low earner. I think the gf needs to run for the hills personally.