Married to ASD partner - so lonely

[whenoneoneknows]

As the title says.
Married 20 years; ASD 'D'H makes for a very lonely life for me. He's not interested in hearing my thoughts/ideas/how my day has been or making idle/passing chat with me. The condition means he is totally thoughtless and selfish and prefers to be left alone most of the time. He is happy for me not to talk to him and wouldn't see that as odd or perceive me to be in a mood/purposely ignoring him.

I remember years ago - before Mdcs took pymt by card - we'd be out in the car and he would ask me to drive past Mcds as he fancied some food. I'd ask him to get me something too and his response would be 'but Ive only got enough money for me'.

There are no thoughts of him doing something nice for me or to save me the burden of a specific chore, even something little like saying I can have a lie in while he sorts the school run out ONE morning. I always take the day off work for my birthday, he never asks if he should too so we can do something together, he just wouldn't think to do it. This year for my bday I brought my own cards for the children to write for me/brought my own gift and cake and wrapping paper. The only surprise from him was the cake candles. Everything has to literally be spelt out for him. There is no reading of body language; he is a very literal person. I have to ask him on whatsapp about any decisions he needs to agree to - that way I have it on record when he later disputes what he said, if I dont ask him in writing then I never get an answer from him. He cannot make a decision, I have to do it all - even choosing what he wants for dinner. I refuse to make his decisions now.

There is no option to leave due to the children.

Its just a sad lonely life. If I won a luxury holiday of my dreams for 2 then I'd take my bestie over H.

Anyone want to hear about my week ?!

No I'm not saying they are. I'm just pointing out that the trope that autistic people are always selfish and have empathy for others isn't always true.

I think the OP is flogging a dead horse. Her marriage is over.

@alexdgr8 he meant both weakish and weekish. Pretty much the same as other weeks and a bit meh.

If I ask my undiagnosed DW what her plans for the day are she'll invariably reply with as few words as possible. With DW I always take shortness as churlishness, not so with DS. I think we have very different expectations from our partners, a long term partnership is kind of unique in the way that it's a two way contact. In other relationships I think we tend accept or tolerate more (perhaps too because it's not in one's face all the time).

All of us are a combination of nature and nurture. I think for many of us with AS partners some of difficulties we face are a result of the lack of support and awareness during formative years thirty or forty years ago.

I would say he needs to speak to someone who understands ASD and can counsel him to be better at relationship skills. Is it possible for him to do that? I’d definitely look at you using some strategies, but it’s him who needs to make the big changes. Different conditions can and do really affect the person and partner and make things harder to learn to do, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. I’d request that he books an appointment with a counsellor who specialises in ASD, that means they know how to approach this and what best helps.

Being with an ASD partner, the issues can creep up as they get older. My XP is definitely getting more and more entrenched as he ages. Things that can be overlooked in the first flush of romance and the sheer drudgery of very small children, really start to bite as the children get older and you look at facing older coupledom with someone whose wants are very very different from your own.

What a disgusting post @SeaEagleFeather

But it captures the prejudice we face in everyday life well. To get a proper diagnosis of autism you need to suffer a “significant CLINICAL impairment in everyday life”. You don’t seem to understand that at all. I pity the autistic people that have to interact with you.

I feel very sad for you OP. As others have said, this is no life for you or the kids. You still have a chance of happiness and to show your children what a healthy relationship can look like.

My husband isn't autistic (as far as I know), but he is a selfish arse. I would say your husband's behaviour is actually nothing to do with his condition. My little one is only a year and I'm wondering if I should leave. When I think about divorce I actually feel relief rather than sadness. How does it feel in your mind?

Best of luck breaking free from this toxic man.

Sorry I can't read all the autism posts.
As a partner of a person who shows all the signs of what used to be known as Aspergers, I would like to say the following to OP.
I think it's only people who have experienced what you and I do that really understand. I have a few in my life who will say "I completely understand mine, would do the same". That in itself makes you feel less lonely and more validated.
This weekend my house partner as I call him said nothing yesterday, absolutely nothing, he spent the day screen-gazing. Today all he has said is "do you need the car ?" and has gone for a solo walk.
That would have been a very lonely experience for me. But yesterday I went out twice, for a nice walk with my DD and a meal with a friend. Today I went out to play sport with a group.
I'm not lonely because I have developed my own life. I am a single person who shares a home. I too decided not to leave. I have a family home for my children. It is a way of being. Not normal and one that most would be shocked by if the knew and wouldn't understand. It's not what we signed up for when we married, I had no idea people like him existed, it's been a gradually process of understanding and developing coping mechanisms.
I also found comfort and understanding with forums on the website Different Together.
How was is your weekend OP? I'm hear to listen.

@CulturallyAppropriatedName

My mum didn't tell him to wait up because of the same thing: we all accommodate to him. If she would have said "you should wait half an hour, Culturally and grandson will be here by then" he would have got huffy because he would have felt like he was being called out for doing something wrong when in his mind, he wasn't. She always says that it is totally futile. And they have been married more than 50 years so I guess she knows. She manages by compensating.

Autism or none, I wouldn’t dream of going to see someone on their first evening back at the family home after they’ve been away for months. A sensible person would know that they would be exhausted (it doesn’t matter how long the flight was) and to let them have the evening to relax and go to bed and then go and visit the next day. I also agree with the PP that it was unreasonable to think that arriving for a visit at 9pm is OK, it’s rather late. And it’s rather late especially after such a hectic day.

I had posts deleted in a previous thread. Presumably I upset autistic adults, but I never meant to. I was just giving MY experience of living with MY autistic partner, and how hard it was never to feel loved. The deletion of those posts has made me very very wary of being honest about how hard I found it and how some aspects of that relationship have followed me. I am now single and will NEVER co habit or have another engaged relationship with a man again.

^What a disgusting post @SeaEagleFeather

But it captures the prejudice we face in everyday life well. To get a proper diagnosis of autism you need to suffer a “significant CLINICAL impairment in everyday life”. You don’t seem to understand that at all. I pity the autistic people that have to interact with you^

Do you even bother to consider the prejudice other disabled people face in everyday life?

There's a lot I understand actually. But I'm at the end of my tether dealing with individuals invading threads where the OP is struggling and destroying the supportive posters.

Your feeling of disgust and pity is entirely reciprocated.

To get a proper diagnosis of autism you need to suffer a “significant CLINICAL impairment in everyday life”.

So why is it seen as such a wild idea that that impairment may infringe on relationships? This is what I don't understand?

Believe it or not I talk to my asd dh, we discuss how his asd affects him. Me saying it has an effect on our relationship isn't just me being a bitch as some people here would have me think. This is almost 20 years of talking and learning and experiencing. For so many people to come on here and say no, you are wrong, I don't know you I don't know your husband but you are wrong is not just ludicrous it is extremely invalidating and insensitive.

@SeaEagleFeather

Do you even bother to consider the prejudice other disabled people face in everyday life?

Given I also have a physical disability you can assume that I do.

Any ableism, whether it is against physical, mental or hidden disabilities is abhorrent and should be called out and not tolerated in the slightest.

I think what would be helpful would be for the two “sides” on this thread to talk to each other.

But equally if someone on either “side” needs support, then they need it end of.

I too suspect that my ex husband was/is neuro atypical to an extent, and I too felt very unloved.

It does help to realise that what came across as dislike of me may not have been that, but he also displayed a lot of unpleasant behaviour that had nothing to do with maybe being asd so that is a separate issue.

However I would say that I was not able to live a life where I did not matter, and am now single, and like @Zaphodsotherhead, feel that I may never be in another relationship.

In my ex’s case there was no talking about anything so that may have been the difference between being able to cope with our different needs, and what eventually happened, which was our spectacularly horrible divorce.

Men and women do tend to be socialised very differently with selfish or aggressive behaviours seen as less acceptable in women.

I agree it doesn't help to try and shut people down when they are merely talking about their own experience and seeking support for something they are struggling with.

@Redcomb
We are all different.
I had been invited, as it happens, and only had the weekend as I was working. So had I gone the next day - bearing in mind travel time- I would have been able to stay less than 24 hours in total, most of which would have been during the night.

I am clearly different from you because if I had not seen my CHILD and GRANDCHILD for many months, and I knew they were coming, and I knew they would be here around 8:30 pm, and I was tired from my short flight (shorter than their drive) I would either take an afternoon nap and get up beforehand and have a coffee, or I would put myself out a bit and stay up to greet them. There is No Bloody Way I would take myself to bed 20 mins before the eta of one of my invited CHILDREN who I know is coming specifically to see me. Because I love them and I WANT to see them, even if that means putting myself out a bit.

And in any case all this bloody "what about this possible explanation" stuff - this is a single example. I have also mentioned the never had a birthday message, didn't come back from work trip when his wife had a heart attack, I could also add things like forgot to feed my young children when babysitting over lunch (but fed himself!).

What is your purpose in saying "this was all your fault Culturally"? Are you making out my dad doesn't have these social understanding problems despite the fact that I have known and loved him for 50 years and you have no knowledge of understanding of us at all? But you know best? Ok then.

Any ableism, whether it is against physical, mental or hidden disabilities is abhorrent and should be called out and not tolerated in the slightest.

It's a real and significant pity that you don't go in for understanding then. The poor OP has had many years misery, as did I, as have many others.

As I grow older I believe in more a bill of rights for anyone - and that means not silencing others who are suffering. Perhaps you might consider the impact of -your- behaviour on others.

There's no getting through to (some, most definitely not all) people who have a communication and Theory of Mind problem though. It's the nature of the beast.

But I am sick of a minority of people coming on these threads with a OP who's had a terrible time and immediately attacking anyone who mentions the possibility of ASD, and justifying the most outrageous behaviour.

---

culturallyappropriated, you aren't going to win; by definition you're not going to be able to reach some of the posters on this thread. Most people who read however will know exactly what you mean and why it's so difficult to live with.

Fwiw there is a ASD poster on another thread who seems to be tolerant, kind and compassionate of the difficulties of NT/ASD couples have. Tbh it makes me feel rather touched and grateful.

So... someone upthread mentioned closed FB support groups for spouses. If anyone would like to point me towards one I would be most grateful. I think this thread demonstrates why they might be needed.

whenoneoneknows I'd love to hear about your week. How was it? What did you do? How are your DC getting on? How are you xx

There is such difficulty now with talking about relationships and how they are or are not affected by disabilities or mental health issues.

However we do have to talk about this I think. We should not shut it down. I don’t want to live in a world where either:

1. anyone with a mental health issue, disability or learning difficulty is labelled on mass as ‘trouble’, ‘selfish’, ‘too difficult’ or whatever.
2. anyone in a relationship with someone with a mental health issue, disability or learning difficulty cannot speak about how that issue affects their relationship - and not always positively but negatively too.

We must be able to come to some way of being able to do both.

For me, I think it should feel like a struggle to talk about - we need to be challenged on both sides - from people offended about possible predjudices to those with autism - and from people honestly saying that they are suffering in a marriage and that some of this is due to difficulties around autism or a disability or whatever.

So I guess my view is that it is OK to hear in this case - people with autism saying ‘hang on this offends me - not everyone with autism is like that’ but not to say ‘the OP cannot bring up autism at all as a factor’

So I guess my view is that it is OK to hear in this case - people with autism saying ‘hang on this offends me - not everyone with autism is like that’ but not to say ‘the OP cannot bring up autism at all as a factor’

actually, when not angry, this makes sense to me. the practical problem is that it's very, very difficult to do in practise.

Mumsnet moderators have a hard task

What does upset me though is that when someone does post that they are struggling with a diagnosed or undiagnosed ASD partner, they immediately get jumped on to the point that they are not in a supportive and listening environment. This happens as soon as the word ASD is mentioned, without any moderate assessment of the OPs situation.

DH has ASD. He’s extremely bright- is a doctor with a PhD and has done award winning research. His ASD manifests in him being hyper organised, incredibly hard working and very tunnel visioned about work.
We have known each other since we were 21. He’s unfailingly kind to me but often in very direct ways. He’s very principled and very much a feminist so he does everything equally (including childcare although he earns more than me). He’s also a great father and in fact plays with the kids more than I do.
But underlying all this is ASD. Most strangers find him rude and I had friends who found him insufferable because he would be utterly quiet and would then say something that might be perceived as rude. (He is always contrite when it’s pointed out to him). He doesn’t like socialising much, struggles to have non work relationships and is happiest at work or at home. And while he’s a really equal partner in our marriage he isn’t the person I can sit and gossip with, or regale with pointless stories about how my day went. If I say to him ‘DH I want you to listen to X’ he’ll do it. When my mother died he was awesome. But subtle body language he just doesn’t get.
Again, because people are complicated he’s an incredibly empathetic doctor. He works amongst the undocumented communities of the US city we live in. A lot of his research focusses on this stuff. But it’s empathy he understands- he understands that as a physician he is in an unequal power dynamic and can be kind to others. But when he’s not in physician mode he struggles to be similarly empathetic sometimes.
We are the best of friends, he is a great husband and dad, but I have a group of close female friends who fulfill certain emotional needs that he simply can’t, and he and I are both okay with that.

It is incredibly difficult. And when you are at your lowest, in a stressful relationship, is when you are not as likely to be careful with your wording too, which is understandable too.

I’m hopeful that as long as open talking is not shut down - that we can learn with each other and that the nuance comes out more.

The black and white ‘it’s all autism and it’s so selfish’ or the ‘it’s never autism and there are no difficult traits ever’ - we only get to respectful useful advice or debate in the middle.

And as others have said - at the heart of this - is not a debate about relationships but the OP who is going through a terrible time, and likely suffering a few mental health problems of her own at the moment wondering what to do in her personal life for the best.