Married to ASD partner - so lonely

[whenoneoneknows]

As the title says.
Married 20 years; ASD 'D'H makes for a very lonely life for me. He's not interested in hearing my thoughts/ideas/how my day has been or making idle/passing chat with me. The condition means he is totally thoughtless and selfish and prefers to be left alone most of the time. He is happy for me not to talk to him and wouldn't see that as odd or perceive me to be in a mood/purposely ignoring him.

I remember years ago - before Mdcs took pymt by card - we'd be out in the car and he would ask me to drive past Mcds as he fancied some food. I'd ask him to get me something too and his response would be 'but Ive only got enough money for me'.

There are no thoughts of him doing something nice for me or to save me the burden of a specific chore, even something little like saying I can have a lie in while he sorts the school run out ONE morning. I always take the day off work for my birthday, he never asks if he should too so we can do something together, he just wouldn't think to do it. This year for my bday I brought my own cards for the children to write for me/brought my own gift and cake and wrapping paper. The only surprise from him was the cake candles. Everything has to literally be spelt out for him. There is no reading of body language; he is a very literal person. I have to ask him on whatsapp about any decisions he needs to agree to - that way I have it on record when he later disputes what he said, if I dont ask him in writing then I never get an answer from him. He cannot make a decision, I have to do it all - even choosing what he wants for dinner. I refuse to make his decisions now.

There is no option to leave due to the children.

Its just a sad lonely life. If I won a luxury holiday of my dreams for 2 then I'd take my bestie over H.

Anyone want to hear about my week ?!

My favourite faint praise that my DS uses:

DS, how was work today?
"It was easily one of the days I've had all week..."

@OuiOuiKitty

How dare us selfish autistics stand up for ourselves? Were supposed to be emotionless robots making NT people's lives harder, haven't you heard?

Turning a thread that has nothing to do with you about you is selfish and it happens every single time. Calling people that are speaking about their relationship problems 'bitching' is rude and unempathetic. Not a single person has said 'all people with autism are xyz or my husband/father/son represents all people with autism. Quite why there is this insistence that if you say something that isn't positive about one person with ASD you are talking about every single person out there with ASD is baffling. It isn't about you.

You've quite obviously never heard how much we're talked about being a burden, have you?

There have been a lot of comments which are effectively "autistics are all like this, that's what autism is"

@alexdgr8

i think a lot of these expectations are culturally conditioned. what is wrong with saying 9pm, my bedtime, time for visitors to leave. really they should leave without being asked. it is clear communication. it is as if being oblique is more acceptable. and then talk about someone in disparaging or superior tones behind their back. most teenagers, esp boys hate being fussed over, kissed, hugged esp by their mothers. i think there is a lot of projection going on. if someone does not submit to these expectations/ actions and pretend they are welcomed or mutually enjoyed, then there is something wrong with them. at best they are cold or autistic. or rude. so the one wanting to impose these things keeps the upper hand. and looks down patronisingly. i still think the journey example could be seen as princess behaviour: no one must go to bed before i arrive. he probably could not see any advantage in delaying a small child getting fed and bed, nor to you, tired after driving, busy with child, nor to him; all staying in the same house, meet in the morning. total non issue to most people. a rural croft in remote ireland, i was a visitor, eating at table. host had eaten earlier, so he announced, eat away now, i won't be looking on you. and with that he took his chair, turned it around and sat with his back to the table. that was him being considerate. there is a lot of egocentrism dressed up as manners, i think.

Right-o

You know my family and situation intimately of course. Naturally it is ALL ME.
What about the bit where the husband stayed away working while his wife had a heart attack, leaving his young adult kids to leave their homes and families around the country and rally around without him, I guess me thinking that is a bit off is princessy too?

You know what, sod off.

And actually, "9pm, my bedtime" would have been fine. We arrived before 8:30.

What Hollow Talk said
"The good thing about leaving him is that he couldn't object. How could he?"
This. I couldn't word it any better.
What on earth do you or your children get out of this set up? His selfishness is unbelievable, and as PP's have said, it's not necessarily about his ASD. Does he have any interaction with the poor kids? I'll bet the kids are more mature and considerate than him.

“I wish neurotypical people understood the damage they do to autistic people, particularly when in their teens”

Said by Tony Attwood (known usually for his very anti-autism language)

And that was my experience. I was “that teenager” - desperately trying to fit in (had no idea I was autistic). There was a thread yesterday in MN about how a quiet autistic child was punched at school - for being A bit different. Do you NT people have any idea what that feeling of isolation is like because as a teen it is fucking soul-destroying.

my experience is that there is a substantial minority of very entitled neurotypical people who feel it is entirely reasonable to expect anyone they wish to interact with to do so at their standards and that it is fair game to criticise, label and often mock those who are different.

The hurt flows both ways. NTs can be utter heartless selfish twats at time (but I know many that are utterly lovely and I’m thrilled and relieved that they accept me in their lives)

*You've quite obviously never heard how much we're talked about being a burden, have you?

There have been a lot of comments which are effectively "autistics are all like this, that's what autism is"*

People are giving their experiences of their partners/fathers etc with asd. Are they not allowed because of the constant extrapolation, the constant I have asd and I'm not like that. The OP isn't married to you, she is married to her husband, she knows how his ASD affects him, she lives it. The constant invalidation of her known experience, the constant invalidation of all the women who have tried to share their experiences is really bloody wearing. The derailing and trying to turn the threads about you, I have asd I'm a great partner, I don't have any problems with expressing love etc etc and on and on. How is that helpful? How is that even relevant unless you think everyone with asd is the same?

@Scautish

“I wish neurotypical people understood the damage they do to autistic people, particularly when in their teens”

Said by Tony Attwood (known usually for his very anti-autism language)

And that was my experience. I was “that teenager” - desperately trying to fit in (had no idea I was autistic). There was a thread yesterday in MN about how a quiet autistic child was punched at school - for being A bit different. Do you NT people have any idea what that feeling of isolation is like because as a teen it is fucking soul-destroying.

my experience is that there is a substantial minority of very entitled neurotypical people who feel it is entirely reasonable to expect anyone they wish to interact with to do so at their standards and that it is fair game to criticise, label and often mock those who are different.

The hurt flows both ways. NTs can be utter heartless selfish twats at time (but I know many that are utterly lovely and I’m thrilled and relieved that they accept me in their lives)

Can you explain how your post can help the OP who feels lonely in her marriage? Are you saying the OP should suck it up because some ASD people feel isolated? Are you saying she needs to change her standards? What is the relevance of you saying that some NT people are selfish and heartless, are you suggesting the OP is? I'm really confused as to who you are addressing and why?

I’m sorry to hear you’re having to put up with that OP

As an autistic person, I don’t think I’d ever treat any partner or friend like that. However, slightly controversial opinion perhaps but I feel like autistic men seem to get away with much more stereotypical negative traits?
I mean it’s one of the reasons autism in women is less likely to be diagnosed, and I wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult. I know it’s a spectrum and no two with ASD will be the same, but in my (possibly bias) experience men on the spectrum are more likely to behave like that - as plenty of NT pp’s have shared their similar experiences of having a selfish autistic husband

Just interesting how women on the spectrum are more likely to be conditioned in being caring, selfless etc...

Because several posts on this thread have descended into generalised autism bashing and I want NT people to know that they can behave in unacceptable ways too. I’m not sure there’s been a study on the long term impact on autistic people who were bullied by NTs. But it happens every single day and the damage is huge. So forgive me for wanting a voice.

Or perhaps - like another thread - someone will suggest that it’s disgraceful that autistic people are allowed to comment at all.

How on earth did he ever get you to marry him in the first place?!

I’m definitely not a psychiatrist or anything like that at all, so happy to be corrected (please excuse any ignorance) but I don’t think there is any evidence of male and female brains being different? Yet, generally speaking men with ASD behave differently to women despite us supposedly having the same condition. In some ways I feel like I still relate more with nt females...

Do you NT people have any idea what that feeling of isolation is like because as a teen it is fucking soul-destroying

Of course we bloody do.

You're not the only ones, okay?

The whole damn thread is about how hurt the OP is. As for culturallyappropriate being hurt, frankly the idea of someone coming to see their father, making all that effort and then them going to bed would be desperately hurtful.

Someone said "he's an adult, why wouldn't he go to bed if he's tired" at 20:30. The answer is because someone went to a LOT of trouble to get there, and he didnt have the damn courtesy to wait for them. He paid no attention to their effort or needs.

Being an -adult- means taking other people into consideration. Balancing their need with yours.

Not understanding that that was very hurtful indicates very clearly the whole problem.

@Scautish

Because several posts on this thread have descended into generalised autism bashing and I want NT people to know that they can behave in unacceptable ways too. I’m not sure there’s been a study on the long term impact on autistic people who were bullied by NTs. But it happens every single day and the damage is huge. So forgive me for wanting a voice.

Or perhaps - like another thread - someone will suggest that it’s disgraceful that autistic people are allowed to comment at all.

You think that NT people think that every single other NT person is fantastic and had to come on this thread where the OP is struggling to let her know that they aren't, wow insightful

The only people I see generalising here is the people with asd who are saying I'm not like that so it can't be asd behind these behaviours. Saying oh yes my father who has asd or my husband who has asd can behave that way too isn't generalising. Saying my husband has asd and I can relate to the loneliness isn't generalising. It is saying my situation is similar to yours. Not your situation and my situation is the same as everyone else's who is married to someone with autism.

There is a time and a place for everything and merailing every thread where an OP mentions that her marriage is poor and her dh has asd isn't the place. It isn't about silencing people with asd. It's about completely irrelevant things being brought up again and again and the OPs being silenced.

The constant invalidation of her known experience, the constant invalidation of all the women who have tried to share their experiences is really bloody wearing. The derailing and trying to turn the threads about you, I have asd I'm a great partner, I don't have any problems with expressing love etc etc and on and on. How is that helpful? How is that even relevant unless you think everyone with asd is the same

This, with bells on. So many of us are so isolated at home, and then with friends and family who don't understand, or have their own prejudices - and then to come out seeking support and getting lectured to by yet more people who have no interest in actually hearing about a poster's own internal life, but instead focussing on the general prejudice shown to autistic people and the fact that not everyone who is autistic who is like that - which is of course true, but will leave the op, who was just desperate for someone to ask about her week for once, feeling more alone than ever. Start a thread about prejudice towards autistic people and go for it. I, like lots of others on here, might well come on to learn. But for goodness sake please let people have some space to talk.

And fwiw @noseresearch I would say the same, via my DD I've met parents of other girls with autism and they are so different from.most of the boys. I also read that girls with autism are often at higher risk of being abused. it's a part of the reason I had to split with my (diagnosed) autistic DH, because his day to day was lovely but his outbursts/meltdowns absolutely would fit the criteria for emotionally abusive, and made us walk around on eggshells, even if he didn't fit the traditional criteria for an 'abuser', and I didn't ever want her seeing that as normal.

The constant invalidation of her known experience, the constant invalidation of all the women who have tried to share their experiences is really bloody wearing. The derailing and trying to turn the threads about you, I have asd I'm a great partner, I don't have any problems with expressing love etc etc and on and on. How is that helpful? How is that even relevant unless you think everyone with asd is the same

Apologies if my previous post came across like that, I really do sympathise with OP and any other women who’ve had to experience that with a partner on the spectrum.
Just because they have ASD doesn’t mean your feelings are any less important.

@OverTheRubicon Sorry to hear it, but it seems you did what was best for your DD. Also, interesting to hear you can relate regarding gender differences with ASD, I mean I can honestly say I’ve never had a meltdown and can’t ever imagine getting angry at friends/family even when I’m at my lowest.

I also read that girls with autism are often at higher risk of being abused.

I worry about this because I think one of my daughters is on the spectrum.

Anyone who is abusive towards her will have me to deal with 😡.

@noseresearch sorry that first bit wasn't aimed at you! I think it's helpful to have dialogue and different perspectives, so long as everyone is really listening.

Im also not sure why your blaming it on ASD, ive had 2 partners with ASD and they were both lovely.. yes a bit more work to understand but nothing like that.

I am not interested in "bashing" autistic people or generalising about the behaviour of autistic persons. The thread has derailed a bit and that is partly down to me and I am sorry about that. I only meant to talk about examples of times in my life where NT and autistic thinking clashed. I am sure if my son or dad were writing this post they could just as equally tell stories where I was imprecise or illogical or whatever and upset them. This road is not a one way road. We allistic people have no right to assume our way is the "correct" way. Equally, it wasn't unreasonable of me to be hurt when my dad disappointed me.

OP, I feel desperately sad for you and for your family (and also more than a little anxious because DS1 is autistic and I'm regularly worried about what his future will hold in terms of relationships - he's only 8)

If you feel like the marriage isn't over, for whatever reason, have you tried basically implementing strategies to encourage DH to try and be more aware of your needs? I know there are quite a few apps for executive functioning support, for example, or you could set reminders for him to do the things you would like him to?

Alternatively do you think he might engage with an Occupational Therapist in relation to social communication skills, if he thought the alternative was divorce?

I have an autistic child. He has bought me presents for birthdays and Mother's Day and from school trips, he listens when I tell him about stuff and he makes me cups of tea.

Autistic people aren't selfish arseholes and I get really frustrated when people imply they are. Your husband is a selfish dick. His autism may be part of that but the main bit is that he is just not very nice.

You don't have to live like this.

With all due respect having a child with asd and a husband with asd are different things. I have both. The demands and expectations of both relationships are different.

You don't lean on your children the way you do with a partner, you don't need the child to play an active role in financial decisions, in how you raise you children, to offer advice and comfort on what can be complicated family matters or business/work decisions. You don't expect your child to step in and help out with your other children when you just can't for whatever reason.

There is a whole host of things that come into play in what should be the equal partnership of a marriage that just aren't there in the parent/child relationship. There are a whole host of pressures and responsibilities that come with the role of having to be an adult and a parent that children don't have on their shoulders.

It just isn't the same thing at all.

And just to add that all of that also comes with the fact that asd can affect people in different ways. Your son is not the OPs husband, your sons autism is your sons autism and not the OPs husbands.