Dating Thread 195 - Level Dean, home of serious women who actually talk

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item

*@crackofdoom Not weird and a great stance to have I think being resolute in your value and knowing you are amazing and a catch

I had an iron earlier this year that I dated for two months but he 'went off the boil' I was weirded out that he'd rather be single than go out with me.

Worth remembering that although we are all the prize we ain't everyone's cup of tea for whatever reasons (pheromones?)

It's a funny old game isn't it. Sorry you had to see Mr Sparky's new iron. That's always hard to stomach. I stay away from social media entirely to avoid this (started with my XH and the OW) broadcasting their lurve then my first OLD fling finding his One two weeks after me et*

I have now unfriended him. Should have done it months ago.

I realise that I'm desperately sad and insecure deep down. The longest relationship that I've ever had has been for 2.5 years, and that has left me with the feeling that there's something so wrong with me that I can't sustain a long term relationship. This just compounds that. What's wrong with me? When I see even a man like DS2's father, whom I dumped because he was abusive, in what looks like a happy long term relationship with a nice woman, I'm just like "FFS, how good do I have to be? How pretty, how clever, how kind and accomplished does a woman have to be to appeal to even a stunningly mediocre man?"

@Notcoolmum yes that was my experience, people used to (very occasionally) say 'What can I do?' at which my brain would freeze up and I'd airily say 'Oh nothing, don't worry' as that was just easier. Looking back, I really wish someone had just thought to leave a casserole on my doorstep occasionally, or some flowers in a nice vase. Or some bloody shopping. The problem you have though @TheCatWithTheHat is that she may construe such gestures as coming with strings attached... I'm sorry, I don't really see how you can win with this one.

Sometimes I think an answer to these problems, thecatinthehat, is to give it a bit of time. Don't contact her for a few weeks, in order to give both of you a bit of space. Reconnect with yourself, let the pain die down, ask yourself if you're ready to get back out there and meet other people. Then, when you've cooled down, it will be easier to genuinely offer her your support as a friend, perhaps leaving a door open to more.

@crackofdoom it's worth remembering that there's a lot of rubbish blokes around and they don't always present as rubbish at first so it takes time to work it out or that they're not rubbish but just not right for us.

The fact you haven't stuck in a shit abusive marriage for 20 years whilst kids looked on observing what dysfunctional parental relationships look like is a good thing not something to give yourself a hard time about. You are being discerning and even though when any relationship ends even with someone who didn't treat you like the total awesome woman you are it does dent the self esteem because it's a rejection.

But if it means you are moving on from unions that aren't right for you that's ok. It's better to be single than be with someone dire.

We're all insecure deep down. That's being a human. Those who aren't are odd.

@TheCatWithTheHat I agree with @crackofdoom and as hard as it might be to give her time and space. Being there when she's asked you not to be will not help your cause.

Tricky that you don't know the kids and they are front and centre of her existence right now. She needs those who know the kids and is probably only just managing to navigate each day hour by hour she hasn't got anything left for extra curricular relationships.
Right now you can't solve her problems.

I'm a big believer in if you love someone set them free & if it's meant to be they'll return. Maybe send a handwritten card in a week or so's time to say you are thinking of her and all she's coping with and wish you were able to support her through this time....

Those are my thoughts.

Thank you all today. I haven't heard anything more, I was a bit worried about posting about it as I wondered if I would be believed; its the simple fact of I put my trust in him when he said he was single and had no reason not to. As @notcoolmum told me; I have told her the truth and what she does with it is up to her.
I will extend to everyone on this thread what I have told @notcoolmum and @cravingthelook, I give you all permission to hunt me down, shout and slap me if I ever say I am going on a date with a Caribbean man who is in the army. Cravingthelook knows where I live so very much could come.

On with my dating break and working on goals I have set for myself

Reading this thread makes me realise how lucky I am and how much stuff other people have going on - big hugs to everyone.

I'm just now in that will he/won't he ghost me thing......I guess the best advice is to give him like a week to arrange something and then delete?

@crackofdoom

2 1/2 years isn't a short time to be in a relationship, so I can't imagine anything is wrong with you. I think most if not all of us are insecure deep down. I certainly am, and have the same thoughts about what is wrong with me. But I think the answer is nothing - it's just finding a great match is hard. Very hard. Especially at the moment.

As for seeing other people in supposedly happy relationships - the key words you use are "what looks like". So many relationships look good from the outside, but the reality can be very different.

‘How pretty, how clever, how kind and accomplished does a woman have to be to appeal to even a stunningly mediocre man?’
@crackofdoom it’s because you are all of those things that you are not settling for the mediocre men nor should you. And you dumped the abusive asshole rather than putting up with it for your son - which was amazing and a much better thing for your son.
You are not faulty or wrong, just not settling for the dire and that’s ok

And don't think I won't show up there @Dancerinthemoonlight 😂😂😂

Is it bad that I want you to do it to have a reason to come down... I'll tell the police I have to break lockdown because my friend is suffering a mental breakdown and lost all sensibilities... sure I'd get let off

Much as I keep telling myself I'm a great catch and won't settle for anything other than a great catch, it's hard sometimes not to think that I'm nothing to write home about and why would anyone want to go out with me. I come across as very confident in both my profile and RL - and I mostly am - but if I'm so great why am I not doing better at this dating/relationship thing?

@WeWantTheFinestWines that is exactly how I feel.

I've had some really nice "thanks but no thanks" messages after dates saying how lovely I am, and I keep telling myself the same, yet dating/relationships is so hard. It does knock my confidence at times.

I went back through my profile on one of the apps which I've had for about 18 months, and I've got over 120 chats there, a fair few of which resulted in a date, a couple of second dates, a good friendship and only one in anything more (that was Miss H).

Talking of whom, I heard from her last night after I offered to be there for her, and got back a reply saying that I'm a lovely guy, she fancied me but didn't have any feelings for me so there was no future. Pretty gutted really, as it just doesn't tally with some of the intimate moments we've shared. But it is what it is. :(

I feel foolish now for telling her how I feel, but it does explain why she never really responded to compliments or when I told her I missed her, liked her etc...

‘How pretty, how clever, how kind and accomplished does a woman have to be to appeal to even a stunningly mediocre man?’

We should do all those things because it's who we are rather than in reliance of them being appealing. Unfortunately people like who they like, and it may well be irrespective of cleverness, kindness and accomplishments. It's all about unmet needs apparently ...

I think humility and recognising the limitations and shortcomings you have is fine @WeWantTheFinestWines without making you less than a great catch because if you meet someone's needs that's and they yours that's all that matters. I blame self help for a lot of this stuff - the idea that you have to be always improving, finding your best self, realising your worth etc. How about your best self being chilled out as can be and not engaging in self remonstration for not being enough or improving fast enough.

And anyway what is the success criteria for dating/relationships ? Not having rubbish ones has got to be the first step on the ladder , not rushing into something and backing out equally as rapidly, caring for yourself and others in the same boat. There's a lot of pride to be taken from that folks.

There's nothing more wonderful than being told you're missed - what a shame she's wasn't in the same place @TheCatWithTheHat, but try not to regret things you said; at least you know. If you start worrying about things you didn't say and maybe if you had, things would be different, that's a recipe for headfuck.

Yes, @HairyArsedMan, every time we choose to walk away rather than engage in something that isn't quite right, we should celebrate that fact that we know our worth and what we need.

I hope this isn't the wrong place to massively lower the tone I feel this is a safe space and I can garner opinions on a subject I'm curious and naive about....

So - oral sex.
After 20 odd years of a shit sexless marriage with a narcissistic fuck I was surprised to observe with my OLD dalliances that some men get a big thrill from orally pleasuring their woman. This was news to me.
With my latest iron after 3 sleepovers I'm observing this has not been done/offered.

Here's the Q.
If I'm ambivalent about it (which I think i am but equally happy to include it if it's a must-do for the guy I'm with) then do I just continue to observe whether it's offered/included if I get to have further sleepovers or (cringe) bring it up in conversation & if so how?

'So can we clarify pls... how much on a scale of 1-10 do you enjoy giving oral pleasure?'

I don’t understand @ruralbliss. If you’re not that bothered about receiving oral sex and he’s not that keen to do it then surely you’re both on the same page and it’s not worth thinking about?

@TiggerDatter I don't know whether his views are on this subject which is what's got me pondering after 2.5 years of OLD dalliances and discovering it's a big hit with 'most' (all 5 that I've dtd with post marriage) men I'm now surprised a bit by its absence on the three occasions we've stayed the night together.

I guess it's a safe assumption that if it was his thing he'd be doing it and as he's not it's not.
Feels a bit imbalanced with me being a big fan of using my mouth but that's my preference.

Feel like I might start being less ambivalent and might feel I'm missing out if it's not an option.

Don't know whether to put up and shut up, continue to observe or have some sort of awkward conversation one day if the moment feels right.

When you say you're ambivalent, do you mean it doesn't really do anything for you? Men won't keep offering it for long if they can tell it's not giving you pleasure.

I'm not sure why you'd need to ask them about it in advance. Unless you want them not to be into it so it stops?

Sorry, so you do want it and he's not offered?

Or you don't care but you're a bit confused why he's not suggested it?

Not sure I've ever been with a man who didn't do it at least the first few times!

I’d keep a watching brief then. As you get used to each other I believe there should be more variety, not less. Perhaps he’s building up to it?

FWIW Mr GN gave very little oral to begin with, he lacked confidence as it turned out. Now he knows how bloody much I love it, he’s down there like a shot most times we have sex. My XH hated giving oral so frankly I’m in heaven 💕

There is so much wisdom in this thread - just read back the last couple of pages... @HairyArsedMan that is so true about unmet needs and the scourge of self-help books making us all think we won't succeed until we're perfect.

I've been very guilty of this and bought a whole stack of books after my previous car-crash Tinder experience... and was merrily trying to reconstruct myself as this perfect new self who would therefore be immune to heartache. One day my counsellor proposed the idea to me that instead of trying to rebuild myself to be perfect, I should instead accept the world as it is, inundated with imperfect people including myself, and try to develop resilience and acceptance instead easier said than done

@TheCatWithTheHat - sorry to hear about your experience too... painful though it absolutely is (it's very similar to my ex who after insisting he was under so much stress he needed space, was on the verge of a breakdown, etc; with me then offering help, backing off a bit, and spending a couple of weeks in confusion - I then found him with rejigged profile back on Tinder) I think she has done you a favour by admitting the feelings weren't there for her too because it stops the wondering, and the attempts to 'right' something that you can't. I'm so sorry though - it is horribly painful.

I have spent much of my life wondering if I'm unloveable, or perhaps very difficult to love, or something - I'm quite sensitive and a bit mixed up, but with the appearance of a very confident and assertive person - and I think that combination can be quite difficult for many people! I am also starting to recognise that I have previously continued with relationships even if from the start it was clear that they should NOT be continued - so really do applaud those of you who have been or are better and wiser at getting out if things don't feel right... it's not easy to do and it is FAR better to be single than to be in an abusive relationship or one just based on drama!

Things continuing well with my new iron, although I am a bit wary as he is only separated for a year and halfway through divorce. He is quite boundaried about not expecting or wanting either of us to dump our own 'stuff' on each other too much, but as I've been separated for 7 years and divorced for 4... I know how raw it is when you're still in the first year - this will be his first Christmas not in the family home for example... I was a mess at that point and it's hard not to compare.

Sorry hadn't refreshed the thread - @Ruralbliss is it that you want clarification that he's not averse to doing it 'with you' specifically as opposed to a general aversion? IME most men like doing it but not all. I think I would be a bit bothered if someone wasn't interested in at least pursuing oral as another thing to add to our repertoire... particularly as you say as you are quite generous in that department

@Ruralbliss
Oral is a deal breaker for me, its the main way for me to orgasm so i definitely need it in my sex life.

Even a FB has to be up for oral otherwise i wouldn't meet.

Are you ambivalent because you've had years of none? Or does it genuinely do nothing for you?

If its the latter then you and Mr VW are on the same page, if the former you need a discussion.

If you're having sex you should be able to discuss sexual topics.

He may be shy or unsure whether you would like it so he hasnt suggested it or made any moves.

I absolutely love oral and luckily my most recent BF was massively into it - I could barely get him out from beneath my legs half the time woo hoo! The father of my DC - 14 years together - wasn't really into it. I did it a few times when I asked him to, but because it wasn't his thing he wasn't very good at it.

I only give if I get. I'm quite happy to give and see it as a natural part of sex, but if I don't get I don't really feel like giving, as I don't get a massive kick out of. It's great to hear him enjoy himself, obvs, and I enjoy that - otherwise it's just a bit boring to me... So I need someone who loves giving and then I'll give till the cows come home. But that's just me. And I did stay with the non-giver for 14 years so....what gives?!

In my experience almost all men either love doing it or are happy to do it as they know the woman will enjoy it. If the woman won't, I'm sure they'd be happy to leave it...

Try it - you might like it! And so might he! You could have a great time together!

Between my legs, not underneath - don't know where that even is.

And He did it....not I did.... what a messy message