To leave France

[CroissantMuncher]

I have a DP (French) I love and a job that is deeply unfulfilling but pays well. We live in France and I can now apply for citizenship: it will take 2 years for that to be processed.

I am bilingual so there is no language issue. I just find myself missing living in the UK for lots of reasons. I feel like I'm done with france and what I would actually like to do is go back to the UK and retrain in psychology.

I'm 34. All my family and friends in the UK say I'm mad, France is so much better (whilst they still live in the UK....), that I'm throwing away my chance at an EU passport post Brexit, that I'm throwing away my relationship (he refuses to move).

I really dont know what to do. On the one hand settled life with DP in France. On the other hand change career and go back to UK. Part of me thinks I could regret leaving so close to getting citizenship. Another part of me thinks life is short.

Anyone been in a similar quandary or have any thoughts?

"Every pub is pretty much a welcoming place wherever you are from, and there is a fluid social life that you describe very well, and everyone is welcome."

What??
There are plenty of 'locals' pubs in the UK where any new person is just stared at. There are still places where women can't go and drink alone without being stared at or bothered.

I think it is a dream if you are on holiday for two or three weeks, in the middle of the summer in a beautiful place with divine dinners, scented lavender and endless sunny warm days. People never ever build in the reality of a move there - and for six months of the year it is truly very hard. Cold, lonely and empty.

There is literally nothing to do!

I can imagine this must be magnified with covid atm, so you must consider that but to be honest it was like being in a semi permanent lockdown all the time. and now you are staring at six more months there, and it is bleak - until spring and I know that feeling.

I used to be so envious of other people visiting family, having old friends to stay. Extended family gatherings at home. It was something I wanted and couldn't have there. It made me so homesick.

I would come home to visit and wonder why I didn't appreciate it more when I lived in England, because it is such a lovely kind country, friendly and also fun. Everyone is up for a drink, a party or a visit to the pub. I could do so many things, so many options. Eating Thai food or any type of food and not just French cuisine was amazing, and just being able to try on something in a clothes shop without anyone looking me up and down! (I am not a size 0 so raised eyebrows all round!!)

So we came back, and I don't regret it. I really don't. We came home with a far greater appreciation for the UK for sure. I lived in two other European countries, and it wasn't very different, although one had a very gregarious social life.

I realised you can't put a value on the feeling of belonging or family. No matter how beautiful or refined the country.

"I realised you can't put a value on the feeling of belonging or family."

Perfectly put. It's so easy to take the simple but fundamental things for granted.

Would the OU be an option?

@Dozer

Why are you in France, primarily for work, or because of your DP?

Citizenship in France is pointless if your relationship is unlikely to go the distance, you could get decent paid work in the UK and would much prefer to be in the UK.

Most people don’t do our ideal job, or even one we like much! Doing another degree and then a masters would cost a lot, especially if FT (opportunity costs of lost earnings). Or if done on top of working FT or even PT would take many years and leave you little time for relationships etc.

Would really think through your views/feelings about DC because 34 isn’t young fertility wise, if in the end you do decide you want them, wouldn’t spend more time with your DP if you don’t want them with him (or vice versa).

It’s not pointless if you want to be able to live and work across the entire EU as opposed to being limited to one country whose entire political system and economic system is going down the pan.

The next 5 years minimum will be very tough here.

I think it is safe to say it is going to be very tough EVERYWHERE economically including France to be fair thanks to covid.

@Friendsoftheearth
Again, perfectly put.

People never ever build in the reality of a move there - and for six months of the year it is truly very hard. Cold, lonely and empty.

There is literally nothing to do!

Sensible people do. They move in or near big vibrant towns/cities with lots going on socially and culturally.

@TatianaBis
Why do you think next five years?

@SuperEkstra
In what way do you think I need to be more realistic? (I mean that genuinely, not as a rhetorical question!).

@Friendsoftheearth

I think it is safe to say it is going to be very tough EVERYWHERE economically including France to be fair thanks to covid.

Brexit ring any bells?

Is France about to cut itself off from it’s largest trading partner?

OP, I've read all your posts and it sounds very much as if your mind is made up. You should come back to the UK and at least test it out. If you don't, you may regret it.

[quote CroissantMuncher]@TatianaBis
Why do you think next five years?[/quote]
It will be more like 10+.

Get the citizenship. You never know what awaits us in the future.

What you need to ask yourself is whether you'd be happier in the UK doing a similar job because at the moment, although not totally impossible, your chances to pursue your dream of becoming a psychologist are not high.

You started the thread by saying that you wanted to come back because it was easier to go back to studying and pursuing a psychology career but you don't seem to have appreciated that although much more accessible on paper, the reality of getting there is another matter.

It's become so much harder to get into some health careers and psychology is one of them. It will it get harder.

Were you happy with your life in the UK before you left and did you just move for your oh?

Staying just to get citizenship whilst planning to move because not enjoying life in France is very hypocritical.
.

I was in a similar position - only Italy rather than France.

I'd been there 10 years, fully integrated, DP etc etc

But I was homesick for the UK and those feelings grew stronger. I also wanted children and wanted them to have a similar childhood and education to mine (don't under-estimate this... home-schooling under Covid is bad enough when you know the system!) . A lot of it was rather vague things that probably seemed silly on their own or to other people but added to the longing I had to go home.

But I had a lovely life and it never seemed the right time. Plus, the Italian DP spoke no English, had family businesses going back hundreds of years and zero career prospects in the UK so there was no way that he would ever consider a move.

Eventually I landed up in hospital seriously ill for over a month and came back to the UK to stay with my parents to convalesce - which ended up taking nearly 2 years. My mother is convinced that it was the stress over making a decision that contributed to my getting ill in the first place.

Then had to decide whether to make a life here or go back to Italy, and I was very undecided... except I then met my now husband at a friend's barbecue and within a couple an hour I knew that I was staying in the UK.

I have had absolutely no regrets at all - and once I'd decided it was as if a huge weight was lifted. I also found that the things that niggled were things that were important to me, and that I wasn't just looking with rose-tinted glasses (a valid fear). I did have to start from scratch in terms of friendships and a whole new life, but that was actually quite a lot of fun.

I had the option to get Italian citizenship and I turned it down - no regrets at all. I have unusual skill sets that mean I could easily live anywhere I wanted, and at the time I wasn't prepared to land any future children with things like obligations to do military service.

Good luck with the decision - I found making pro and con lists very useful.

In what way do you think I need to be more realistic?
You don't seem to want to hear that getting onto a Psychology Doctorate Programme is extremely difficult.

My friend's daughter applied and I was convinced she'd get on. She got a 2:1 in Psychology from a good Uni. During that time, she volunteered with Cafcass, and then got a job working with social services. She finally got an Assistant Psychology role within the NHS, but she didn't get in. She said other candidates had many years of experience and had already published with professors. It's almost if not as competitive as getting into Medicine for a career that pays much less.

@dontdisturbmenow
I think I've been very open to hearing how difficult it is. I'm also open to the idea of doing something else too, such as mental health nursing or counselling. But I'd like to give it a shot, and I imagine the conversion course would stand me in good stead regardless.

Brexit on the horizon - it's a no-brainer (or it would be if I were in your position). Stick it out for a couple of years, change job if necessary, get citizenship.

Many UK university courses will be available online now. Have you checked?

@OhCrumbsWhereNow
Thank you for sharing your story, it's interesting to hear from all sides and I'm so glad you are happy with your decision. How did you feel about leaving your DP, were you happy in your relationship? Because obviously that's another aspect on top of the whole Brexit and citizenship mess. He may well be inflexible but I do love him and our day to day life is very chilled and supportive. He would be so upset. He is a close friend as well as a DP to me, I'd say.

Didn’t read the whole thread sorry so hope I’m not having a “cancel the cheque” moment!

Can you do the Conversion online? If so, stay in France to do the conversion AND the practical experience (ideally concurrently, not
consecutively). Return when you are ready to apply for DClin.

I actually wonder if your relationship is part of your itchy feet OP.

I get that you love him and he’s chilled, and yet.... you’re considering leaving anyway.

Is he really so rigid that he wouldn’t at least move to a more interesting part of France?

You say he would be upset if you left, of course he would, but not apparently upset enough to consider relocation!

If you feel like you're done with France then I don't see why people think having EU citizenship is so important. And, post-Brexit, I don't see what will be so different about living and training in the UK?

Having EU citizenship keeps the door to Europe open if the UK goes down the shitter post-Brexit or if life in the UK simply doesn't turn out to be what you want. If OP burns that particular boat, she could end up stuck in the UK.

I may take advantage of having had 2 Irish GPs and get Irish nationality, so that I retain freedom of movement etc.

Anyway, I wouldn't come back to the UK until the Brexit dust has settled a bit. It's such a massive unknown, none of us has a real idea of what a post-Brexit UK will look like. It could all be sunlit uplands or it could be like The Road, no-one really has a scooby.

@Friendsoftheearth

I think it is safe to say it is going to be very tough EVERYWHERE economically including France to be fair thanks to covid.

Precisely. And I don't see a point to spending two years waiting around in a job the OP doesn't like in order to gain citizenship to countries she doesn't want to live in.