Feel like husband doesnt care. 2.

[Chickencuddle]

Continuing from other thread.

I have recieved an email from womens aid lady. She said she thinks it's definitely abuse. She will ring me later to arrange a meet up to discuss options. I've told her I want to leave. She said she will help me.

OP you’ve detailed lots of Coercive control - you’ll recognise it when you read what it is - it’s the name for - an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

What on Earth makes you think he would get any kind of help?

He doesn't believe he is doing anything wrong. You and the children are his property, to treat how he likes.

I think in a "normal" marriage if the father was doing it so much that the soon started copying him, the parents would be upset and explain that it is an adult joke. And the dad would stop sound it as setting a bad example.

Can you even begin to comprehend your husband admitting something he was doing was wrong?

*son started copying

*Dad would stop doing it.

FFS, why can't you edit on MN?!

@Chickencuddle there's lots I could write, but an example I'd give is that your husbands actions are premeditated and they are often intended to humiliate or be degrading, to make you feel uncomfortable.
That makes it more serious and more worrying than him just reacting, or being flirtatious. That also means it's definitely abusive.

The feeling that you need to walk on eggshells and avoid doing the wrong thing? Trying to pre empt his moods to avoid trouble? That's indicative of coercival control. Trying to control you by making you scared, or making you second guess things.

I can't open a packet of crisps in my living room without DD hearing from upstairs and coming down to see what it is. They'll have heard and seen so much more than you think. Children always do.

Others will see it as a big deal. It's a huge deal. WA have given you a refuge space on the strength of it. We've all said it's a big deal
And how other people see it doesn't matter anyway, what matters is how you feel about it and the impact on the kids.
I think you're probably really afraid that you're going to be powerless and ignored by the authorities like you were as a child. That they'll not let you in the door of the refuge unless you somehow prove to them that everything is true and you fill the criteria

But literally nobody ever phones a refuge just for the heck of it, they know what it takes for a woman to phone, and they've already looked at your circumstances and have decided you need a place.

Nobody is going to hold you to account
Nobody is going to demand proof or insist you justify your choices. Nobody is going to think you are wasting their time when you take the help that has been offered to you, help which is based on your experiences within your marriage

It’s ok, there is absolutely no need to apologise.

Coercive control is basically controlling behaviour. When he told you and the children that you shouldn’t go out as it was ‘too cold’, you knew yourself that was not his concern, he didn’t want you out of the house. When he read a letter addressed to you over your shoulder, you also knew that wasn’t right. When he comments on what your wearing, your body, it’s controlling behaviour, dressed up as care/concern, that’s why it can be hard to spot. It’s damaging, it eats away at your self esteem. He has no right to treat you like that, he’s not in charge of you. The children will think this is ok, it’s not. It may seem small, but it’s a build up over time and it becomes huge, until you reach a point where you are walking on eggshells, you’re already there.

Blurred sexual boundaries- he sees no harm in sexual activity in front of a sleeping child, he can explain away that he thinks it’s fine as they won’t see, but it’s blurring a line, it’s not right. He can’t see this. This is a red flag, it can escalate quickly as he has already crossed a line that most people wouldn’t dream of crossing

I know you're worried about after. When he asks you why. Because he won't see this coming because he doesn't think anything is wrong. And I'm sure he will promise you the moon and the stars and to speak to a dozen therapists. But at the end of the day, there is something fundamentally wrong with him. From birth or through upbringing. It doesn't matter. It is not your responsibility to "fix" him. Your responsibility is to your children. You need to show him and them that this is not how you treat people you love.

He picked you up from a stay in hospital, you were unwell, the children were in the back and he wanted you to give him a BJ, while he drove home.
Do you remember? That's off the scale sexually abusive coercion and sexual activity in front of the children.
And you've detailed so many other incidences. How can you doubt yourself?
Please OP, take the refuge place. Save your children and yourself from this nightmare of abuse.

Chicken it's not a defense to say that the children didn't see him touching your vagina. The point is he repeatedly touches your vagina against your will.

I'm scared I'm going to say what's happening and they will think I'm wasting their time

But OP you've already told them what's happening and they immediately offered you a place at the refuge. You're not wasting anyone's time. You will be believed. We all believe you.

If you can't have confidence in yourself please have confidence in what everyone else on this thread is saying & what your SW and WA are saying. You can do this.x

OP, you must be absolutely terrified but you have to do this to protect your children, to give them the best chance of growing up well.

You seem to think your husband is a good person because he is sometimes ‘nice’ to you. Good people never ever sexually assault others. He not only sexually assaults you, but he continues to do so when you’ve told him not to. It makes me so sad that you think him not molesting you and not shouting for a day or two means he is ‘nice’.

I think my DH is a good person. He has never shouted at me, I’ve never felt nervous around him and he would be mortified and apologetic if he touched me in any way that I didn’t want him to. All my friends’ DHs are the same. They’re not particularly angelic men: they are normal. Your husband is not.

Going to the refuge is honestly a win-win. If he kicks off and gets angry, or is upset but does nothing to prove he has changed, then you’ve done the right thing. If it shocks him into seeking help, and he does so and proves it to you all, then you’re safe until he’s done enough to change.

He constantly waking you up in the night when he knows you are exhausted from lack of sleep. What would happen when he is touching you if you didn’t say no and physically stop him? Would he continue on under the sheets if you allowed him with a sleeping toddler next to you in your bed, or your other DC in the room?

It sounds like you married someone like your parents. That was your role model and now your DC’s role model is also an abuser.

Your DC will grow up and wonder why you allowed this to happen. Why you also allowed them to be bullied. Remember when he said let’s have McDonalds when you were all out in the car. Then drove past numerous McDonald restaurants. He is so mean.

There is something seriously wrong with this man.

You will lose your DC as soon as they are old enough to leave home and they will blame you for not protecting them when you had the chance.

You have to be brave and do the right thing.

@Catmaiden

He picked you up from a stay in hospital, you were unwell, the children were in the back and he wanted you to give him a BJ, while he drove home. Do you remember? That's off the scale sexually abusive coercion and sexual activity in front of the children. And you've detailed so many other incidences. How can you doubt yourself? Please OP, take the refuge place. Save your children and yourself from this nightmare of abuse.

Please remember this @Chickencuddle when you say the children haven't been exposed to this. They really, really have. Just because you've stopped them seeing it doesn't mean he hasn't been keen to behave sexually in front of them. Can you see the difference? He has wanted to behave sexually in front of the children. They are therefore living in a home where inappropriate sexual dynamics are occurring both in front of them and in different rooms to them.

If he told you every day he wanted to hit them and you managed to persuade him not to, would you say to a social worker that he wasn't at risk of hitting them? No.

He constantly tries to push the boundaries of sexual activity in front of the children. Just because you stop him pushing them further does not mean he isn't a father who wants to push sexual boundaries in front of his children.

Can you see that? Still abusive men, just with partners currently placating them to reduce the abuse carried out. The intent and abusive nature is still there.

He is unequivocally emotionally abusive to you and them regardless of the inappropriate sexual behaviour, which is also awful.

@Chickencuddle

And just to add. The love I feel for my children and the sadness and worry I feel for them outweighs everything which is why I will still be leaving no matter how I feel.

Remember you are doing this FOR the children. To protect them

Thanks everyone. I'm going to try to sleep. Was up alot last night and not feeling great. Really appreciate everyones comments. Thank you!

Think ita the time inbetween where I'm waiting. Its just hard and I just want to do the right thig and I'm scared I'm going to get it wrong. But I think you're all right.

Sleep well chicken

Hope you can get some sleep 🤞

You're not getting it wrong, you're doing what's best to protect yourself and your children.

I've been watching since the start of your first thread, and was in tears at the updates a few nights ago - the ones about your daughter, the way he is treating her and of course you and the other kids.

Please please please leave tomorrow, you are NOT ruining their lives, they will blossom when they're away from him, and you will all be much happier, if you don't, you will fuck up their lives even more.

Sorry if any of that sounded harsh, I grew up in an abusive household and have severe mental health problems (which are under control arm) due to the environment I grew up in, my heart hurts for you all, you need to get out ASAP, you are engraining all of this as normal into them, as happens with children around abuse, and still now in my late 20's I dissociate back to that poor child which can be for days at a time and really fuck up your whole life, please
Don't do this to them.

You are an amazing mother to those babies and can do this.

Sleep well @Chickencuddle. Take things one step at a time and try to shut out the background noise. You are doing the right thing. You’ve already been given a place in the refuge so they already believe you. They work with abusive situations day in, day out so they can recognise abuse and they have said he is abusive. SWs have posted here saying he’s abusive, along with hundreds of posters who can give you an idea of “normal”. This is when you can change the pattern of abuse for your children by taking them away from the abuse. Focus on keeping them safe and protecting them. You are an amazing mum who will do anything for her children and you will manage this. Small steps. Don’t think about what happens next week or next month, concentrate on what needs to happen in the next hour. Once that bit is done, find your next one thing then do that. One step at a time.

Their future happiness all depends on what happens during childhood.

Yes and he is screwing them up with how he talks to them. Your little girl writing you notes because she's so upset but can't express her feelings openly where he might hear them. They run a risk of ending up with depression, anxiety etc as adults if you stay, or ending up with an abuser themselves because it seems normal to them- or becoming an abuser.

As a previous poster said, I have severe mental health disabilities and some of it is due to my childhood. And my dad wasn't even what's conventionally seen as extremely abusive, just anxiety-provoking with his moods. If a brain grows in a situation of not knowing when outbursts or whatever are coming, it's very damaging, as they don't learn how to relax fully.

Rooting for you for tomorrow.

I have faith that you'll find a way through this. xxx

Remember chicken, you are not ruining their life, you are saving them. You have to leave, this is the only way to make their life happy and keep them with you.

As social service brilliant lady said they will flag this and if it does they will want to know why you haven’t done anything about his behaviour, and the thought of them taking your children for their own safety needs to stick in your mind. Or think of Thread after thread on MN about people hating their parents because dad was abusive and mum let it happen. You don’t want that to be you. I know your kids are your world, you sound like the best mother ever which is why you HAVE to see this through love xx

Can you imagine when the kids are teenagers and don’t do as they are told what’s he doing to do then? Batter them? Kids fear reaction is to pretend to be asleep, you cannot hand on heart guarantee none of your children have ever seen or heard anything inappropriate. He tried to make you give him a BJ when they were asleep in the car? With baby in the bed, the other day literally while the kids were all AWAKE lying on the bedroom floor, it is not normal for him to be this aroused around children. I have read from the start and have felt tears trickle down my cheeks at some of your updates, please wake up tomorrow and find the strength and courage, you all deserve a new start xx

Chicken you’ve came so far already and you have been so strong. I honestly get it. Taking that step is huge. It’s getting your foot out the door is the hardest part of it all. Your leaving everything you know and crazily what you feel is your safe place. Stepping into the unknown is scary. But it’s not a safe place. Your harassed and berated in your own home by your husband. He does things to your body without your permission. My husband is probably the most rampant playful person I’ve ever met. But anything he ever does he knows I find it playful and actually loving and if I didn’t he would never do it if I told him I didn’t like it. He would never ever do anything in front of our children. He would never overstep the mark sexually if it’s not on the cards much to his disappointment he respects that and me. He would never grab me to the point of causing me pain he would be horrified if he hurt me. This is the crux of it. You have doubts that other men do this and maybe your overreacting (your not). You don’t like it. You say no yet he continues to do it showing absolutely zero respect for you. Your little girl is scared of him and he makes her cry. Read her note. Keep it with you and in those moments when your feeling helpless and scared. Read it. You and your children deserve so so much more. It will be okay x