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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feel like husband doesnt care. 2.

999 replies

Chickencuddle · 28/09/2020 13:48

Continuing from other thread.

I have recieved an email from womens aid lady. She said she thinks it's definitely abuse. She will ring me later to arrange a meet up to discuss options. I've told her I want to leave. She said she will help me.

OP posts:
Cavagirl · 14/01/2021 11:15

@Chickencuddle

This is our home. this is pur whole life. This is everything here. Their future happiness all depends on what happens during childhood. I want to make things work. I've sent an email to womens aid lady asking what else I can do. Counselling for him? Some kind of help with me staying.
Their future happiness all depends on what happens during childhood

Exactly OP. Exactly.

You seem to think that their parents divorcing is more harmful to them than growing up in an abusive home?

I know a lot of children with divorced parents. None of them suffered trauma as a result of their parents divorcing. 1 in 3 marriages ends in divorce these days. About half of those involve children. There isn't this huge percentage of the population traumatised by having divorced parents.

How can you possibly think it's better to avoid divorce and have your children to grow up watching their mother being subject to abuse, and be abused themselves?

Chickencuddle · 14/01/2021 11:36

Not the divorce. If we were divorcing under "normal" circumstances we could cushion the children from the blow. It wouldnt be me almost kidnapping them and taking them to a house full of people they dont know and it will be very scary for them

OP posts:
Sassysally12 · 14/01/2021 11:46

Scarier than being scared of their own dad? Chicken have you read posts on here about refuges, nobody has mentioned their kids being scared. For the first two weeks they won’t see anybody else due to isolating so it will be them and you in your room with a bathroom and kitchen facilities while they get used to the idea of the adventure. Anything I have read expresses how fast kids made friends, don’t forget all the people in there are in the same boat. Kids spent Christmas there and they were okay..

It is not kidnapping them, it is rescuing them

Quartz2208 · 14/01/2021 12:00

Read through all the posts again Chicken because every single one of us is saying EXACTLY the same thing.

Which is that your children are in danger, they are in an abusive environment and they need rescuing. And that if you dont do it know it may well be out of your control.

Because YES he is THAT BAD. His effects will be the same as your father had on you and presumably his father had on him.

They need saving. Be the one to do that and save yourself at the same time

Cavagirl · 14/01/2021 12:29

@Chickencuddle

Not the divorce. If we were divorcing under "normal" circumstances we could cushion the children from the blow. It wouldnt be me almost kidnapping them and taking them to a house full of people they dont know and it will be very scary for them
It won't be very scary for them, you'll be with them, and you'll frame it as going for a holiday for a while. They might play up while they're there, they might moan about not having xyz, but that's not the same as being traumatised. You'll be with them the whole time, and once you're in your own house they'll have forgotten much about the leaving anyway, they are so small. I'm not saying it's easy at all OP but I honestly don't understand how you can compare that less favourably to them spending the rest of their childhood watching their mum get abused, walking on eggshells around their dad, scared to say or so anything to upset him, feeling like they don't have a voice, and who knows what else as they get older. Sorry to be harsh but this might be the only chance you get to stay in control of what happens with your DC, please be brave and take it.
youvegottenminuteslynn · 14/01/2021 12:43

Their future happiness all depends on what happens during childhood.

You're right and that is why they shouldn't be living with someone who is abusive. Both sexually abusive and emotionally abusive to you, emotionally abusive to them.

A social worker said this:

“Also, it is not your fault, it sounds like you are doing all you can but there comes a point where that just won’t be enough to combat the impact. I think someone said earlier in the thread, if you don’t get your children out, it may be taken out of your hands. If your children start to talk in school and social care become involved, it is highly likely that they will assess that they need to be out of the situation immediately.”

Wouldn't you rather proactively protect them than have authorities do it for you?

If you thought he was a safe person for them to be around, you wouldn't be worried about being there to protect them on days he had them in future should you split. You are worried about that so you do know he is unsafe to be around them.

You're worried they'll be scared with people they don't know? You'll be there to protect them. There just won't be someone else there shouting at them, throwing their toys in the garden and telling them they kick animals in the garage.

You said it yourself - their future happiness depends on their childhood.

If you don't want your daughter to end up in a relationship with someone who sexually assaults her and emotional abuses their children, push through the fear and leave.

If you don't want your son to end up in either an abusive relationship or in an relationship where he is abusive to his partner and children, push through the fear and leave.

Nobody is saying it's easy. Doing the right thing is often not the easy thing. But this has gone on long enough and your children are being harmed, as are you. The difference is you have a choice, they don't. Please push through the fear and leave.

Shutupyoutart · 14/01/2021 13:03

Pp hit the nail on the head, op this is your fear talking. Remember when you made up your mind that you defo had to leave? It was when he tried to have sex with you with your baby in the bed beside you op. He is a scumbag im sorry to be blunt but he is who he is and no amount of counselling will change him. I do agree counselling might help you to come to terms and heal from all you have been through though. Please take the place at refuge i know its scary going into the unknown but remember there is nothing worse there then there is in your home with an abusive rapist.

ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule · 14/01/2021 13:17

OP, I'm going to have to be blunt. When any of your children discloses anything that happens at home to someone at school, the decision to take them to safety will be taken out of your hands. Its not an 'if' it's a 'when'. It's a matter of time.

You must protect your children. Your husband is the one who's forcing them out of their homes not you. If you can't have him removed and arrested by the police, then you're the one who has to leave with the children and take them to safety instead because of his actions and choices. He is not out of control, he is choosing to be this way. He thinks it's his right. He is wrong.

We are all rooting for you, you can do this. You are strong and brave and you are an amazing mum. You deserve to be free of him, free of fear and free of danger.

Nooz · 14/01/2021 14:27

Dearest @Chickencuddle, the authorities are so used to the mindset you are trapped in, they are aware of your children's exposure to abuse and they have a duty to act if you don't. It will be much much worse if you are not trusted to act for them because you will have vastly diminished power. This is probably the greatest battle of you life but I'm afraid you are too far in to the system to choose if you family stays together in its present form, wake up lovely lady and drive the bus. Xx

dontgetmewrong · 14/01/2021 14:34

This is your fear talking OP, you really need to push through this for your kids. In 24 hours you will be all be free from this abuse. Think how you felt a few weeks ago when things got really bad & you needed to leave but the refuge couldn't take you. You have the opportunity to be free from all this now, please take it. Thanks

ReallySpicyCurry · 14/01/2021 16:22

Please pet. Remember how you felt last week.

This is fear talking now. Totally understandable. But you can't let fear stop you making the right choices.

I know people who were in refuges. They are now fine. Successful people who were glad their mothers left. Who have brilliant memories of the refuge actually - playing with new friends. Feeling like it was an adventure.

Your DD is telling you over and over how she feels about her father. She has no other way to tell you. She is young and she cannot explain or articulate it in any other way.

If you don't listen to her now then the day may come where worse things happen and she doesn't tell you because she thinks you won't listen.

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd change him into the husband and father that you and the children deserve. But he will not change because he doesn't see why he should have to. He is not motivated to change.

If he ever does change (unlikely but let's hope) it would be after lots of counselling and therapy, and perhaps you going to the refuge would be the wake up call he needs - have you looked at it that way?

You've had a social worker on here confirm the children are at risk.

Every day you are with him they are at risk.

I know you've fought like a tiger to give them the beautiful childhood you never had. But it's going to be overshadowed by him.

Maybe when he's at work, you give them a normal Tuesday, a happy Wednesday, and a fun Thursday . But if he comes home on Friday and shouts at them so hard they cry and scares them with his threats, they won't remember nice days with you. The fear will overshadow them.

What will you do if your children turn around in 20 years and ask you why you did nothing when their dad was shouting and scaring them? I know you have stood up to him etc but if he continues the behaviour that won't make a difference to their feelings and they won't see the times you've spoken to him about his behaviour in private.

You only need to read MN to see the number of posts saying they wish their parents had split up sooner.

The only child I know who ever wrote a note to a parent saying they didn't want to be around the other parent, is a relative of mine. Her parent was emotionally abusive to her. The parent she sent the note to did nothing

My relative, a few years later, ran away aged 11. She went to the local police station and asked to be removed from the home and from the parent. What she went through was only a fraction of what your children are going through. Social services were involved. Her teenage years were very difficult.

I'm not going to pretend that you've an easy choice here. It's not easy. It's terrifying.

But staying isn't going to be easy either. Staying is going to damage your children much more than leaving ever will.

As a PP said - would you phone Social Services and show them this thread, to see what they say?

If not, then why not?

I think if you really listen to your gut, you'll know what the right decision is

If you don't go to the refuge tomorrow, I'm sure you'll have a lovely day with the kids, maybe he will be nice for a few days, and all the fear and worry will be gone, for a little while - but the problem hasn't gone. And it'll come back. And eventually you are going to have to deal with it. If not now, then in years to come, when things are even worse and your children end up blaming you - because if there's one thing I've learnt it's that no matter what a man does it'll always be the woman blamed for it

dublingirl66 · 14/01/2021 18:39

Doubt is normal

Ignore it

Listen to the wise people on here

My abuser sensed I was hatching a plan and became v v kind
It threw me I used to back out of leaving

Then he attacked us all

As for contact you push for supervised
A judge can not allow him alone with these kids no way

You can do this
We are here for you

Please please get out

OhIDontKnowwww · 14/01/2021 18:55

I've been following this thread for a while, but I'm not much of a poster so hadn't said anything. But I've thought about you every day, Chicken.

I can feel how scared you are coming through in your posts. It breaks my heart because you are so strong! Look how far you've come!

Maybe try and break this down into small steps. All you have to do is go to the refuge. It doesn't mean you have to stay there. However, its a first step. Go there, take whatever support they can offer you, then you can plan what you want to do next with support and guidance. You will be completely in control.

Yellowswan · 14/01/2021 19:37

@Chickencuddle, this is such a terrifying situation, all of your reactions are normal. He is the only constant you have had, and that is so tough to break, made so much harder by the fact that you don’t have anyone else.

But please hear me when I say, leaving him will not traumatise your children. They will be with their mum all the time, and they will be in a safe place.

If you don’t leave, this goes 1 of 2 ways. Your children grow up in this abusive home. They will experience a cumulative impact of emotional abuse for years. They will be exposed to potential physical harm and skewed sexual boundaries. That traumatises children.

Or, social care step in because at some point, the professionals around your children (ie. school) are going to see the signs. They are trained to. What happens after that may be out of your control. You will be asked why you did not prioritise your children above your relationship. Your children could be removed and placed in foster care. That traumatises children.

You don’t even need to think about contact or anything else at the moment, you just need to concentrate on getting to the refuge. How far is it? Visualise your journey if you can. By this time tomorrow you will have real support, in person.

And lastly, if you really, really think that he is capable of change, he will fight for you and his children. But not by making you feel guilty. He will take it upon himself to reflect on what went wrong and get the help he needs. If he doesn’t do this, you’ll know you were right to go. If he does, maybe there can be a future further down the line. But he has some serious work to do and that will take time. Your children don’t have time, they need to get out now.

Please stay strong, 1 step, 1 day, 1 hour at a time xx

JarvisCockersLeftEyebrow · 14/01/2021 19:41

You’ve received a lot of good advice here @Chickencuddle I really think you should take it

dublingirl66 · 14/01/2021 20:20

Precisely what @Yellowswan just said 👏👏👏

Chickencuddle · 14/01/2021 20:31

Yellow swan can you tell me what your concerns would be as a social worker. I don't know why my mind is doing this when last week I was so certain to leave.

OP posts:
toooldtocare · 14/01/2021 20:33

I have been reading from the sidelines and just wanted to wish you strength in your journey. You are the kids world. They will be safe with you when you make the leap to the refuge.

My parents split it was the best thing they could have ever done. They just weren’t good together. It was scary but I wouldn’t be who I am today without my Mum making the tough choice she did. And although I didn’t know at the time she knew she had to do it for my sister and I. We will always be so very grateful and that is nearly 40 years ago.

Feel the fear and do it anyway. You will do the right thing.

I shall be cheering you on.Flowers

Yellowswan · 14/01/2021 21:03

It’s completely natural for you to be feeling like this, you’re about to change your life, that’s terrifying. You are leaving what is familiar, that’s scary for anyone, but especially given your history.

My concerns would be the following (this is how I write my reports)

What harm are we worried about?
-exposure to sexual behaviours from their father towards their mother
-exposure to blurred sexual boundaries
-exposure to coercive control from their father to their mother
-verbal aggression from their father
-living in a chaotic and unpredictable home
-oldest daughter feels as though ‘she has no voice’

Impact on children?
-normalising inappropriate sexual behaviour/becoming victims of child sexual exploitation/increased vulnerability/potential to become a perpetrator or victim in future relationships
-fear, confusion, anxiety, normalising coercive control and becoming perpetrator/ victim
-feelings of inadequacy/ poor sense of self
-becoming withdrawn, feeling unimportant
-confusing the cycle of abuse

Again, I don’t say this lightly or to make you feel bad, it’s not your fault, but I can’t be clearer about what is happening to your children. You have to go through with this tomorrow. I absolutely promise you won’t regret it, you may have bumps in the road, but you can look your children in the eye and say you protected them.

Focus on tomorrow, nothing else. No need to look any further than that. I know you can do it xx

Chickencuddle · 14/01/2021 21:18

When you say coercive control....what incidents make you think that?
What is the verbal aggression?
Blurred sexual boundaries? They havnt actually seen anything.

I'm sorry if insound petty or ungrateful. I'm not I'm so grateful for you replying and helping I'm just trying to see it from others point of view and understand. I feel like when things happen I feel they arent right but if things are good again I struggle to see the bad stuff again. That's a terrible explanation..sorry

OP posts:
BadNomad · 14/01/2021 21:40

Your husband touches you sexually when your babies are in the bed beside him, or playing on the floor, and doesn't think it's inappropriate. Neither do you because "they don't see it". That is blurred sexual boundaries.

Chickencuddle · 14/01/2021 21:42

I do think its inappropriate but I dont know if others would see it as a big deal. Also they didnt see so didnt know if it would count or not. I'm scared I'm going to say what's happening and they will think I'm wasting their time

OP posts:
CraftyYankee · 14/01/2021 21:43

If they haven't seen anything then why did your DS slap you on the bum?

Chickencuddle · 14/01/2021 21:45

That's different to seeing my husband touching my vagina beneath clothes.
He slaps my bum around them yes. Again I didnt know if that was a big deal as I guess that happens in alot of marriages.

OP posts:
BadNomad · 14/01/2021 21:47

Them seeing it or not doesn't matter. It happens with them there. That is very, very wrong. You've been very lucky that they haven't seen it. That's down to luck rather than because they're safe. You're not wasting anyone's time. Tell them the truth. Tell them he tries to have sex with you when the children are there and you don't want it and have to tell him repeatedly to stop.

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