Feel like husband doesnt care. 2.

[Chickencuddle]

Continuing from other thread.

I have recieved an email from womens aid lady. She said she thinks it's definitely abuse. She will ring me later to arrange a meet up to discuss options. I've told her I want to leave. She said she will help me.

How He Gets into Her Head: The Mind of the Male Intimate Abuser www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1855942208/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_gxxAEbBTMRXTM?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Being Republic based, it touches on the small town dynamics so you should find it useful.

Just read this thread, had my fingers crossed you would be free by the 28th. Rooting for you and hope it's just a small delay at the refuge/s.

@Justtryingtobehelpful
Thank you. I couldnt open the shark cage one for some reason. The other one is very long so will have to wait to read it when I have a good chunk of time but the opening part describes how I feel alot of the time.
I'm really having doubts. I'm sorry I know people are probably screaming at me. Hut the support worker said the pull and push and doubts are so common and normal. I'm just scared that I could do something to prevent it. Or I'm not being firm enough or I'm being dramatic.
He is desperate for sex. A few weeks ago I said i dont want sex right now. I'm dealing with stuff in my head and needed some time I may need counselling etc salso I'm exhausted but it's like we didnt have that conversation.
Today I'm full of a Cold and my dd is too which means barely any sleep for a few days. .even less than usual. Plus not feeling well. This morning the kids were in the other room and he kept feeling me up and I mildly told him to stop. With no real urgency. Then he went on to start touching me down below. I told him to stop many times and he didnt. I had my legs kind of clamped together and he was still pushing them in so it hurt I said ow a few times and my voice was annoyed and telling him to stop I was annoyed but I wasnt shouting. I then raised my voice a bit and said "ffs stop!" He did stop. I said you hurt me then and he said "oh sorry" like he didnt know but I had said ow and you're hurting me a few times. Then literally a second later he starts again but this time he tries to put his penis into me. I said no and stop and he was like "just 2 minutes. Come on. " he tried a few times then gave up when I kept saying to stop. Then said he was getting out of bed then.
It lasted probably around 10 minutes in total.
I also woke last night to him touching me. But then dd woke and he stopped.
After this morning he said to me "why are you never horny? Are you ever horny? You're probably horny when I'm not here! You never want me!" I actually feel really bad that I'm depriving him of sex.
I often kind of freeze when he does this and I actually am thinking in my head. "You need to do something." But I dont know what to do and then after I feel bad because I should have done something more to stop him.
So that's why I'm doubting it all.
He has been really nice to me and kids last few days and it makes me feel like I imagined it all. Like I'm going crazy.

@Chickencuddle the link @Justtryingtobehelpful was trying to link to seems to have been changed. Here it is:
www.oomm.live/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/

OP he tried to rape you and you are feeling bad that he tried to stop you

Doubts are normal it is a huge step but read through all your doubts are you thinking that this is YOUR fault that you cant stop him or that his sexual abuse of you has put you off having sex with him because you freeze

Your kids were in another room - they could have easily walked in on this and seen their father rape their mother and her trying to stop it. And one day they will.

He does it when your DD is in bed with you. The safeguarding issues here are through the roof with your children

I feel so confused with people telling me this is so bad. I feel a little bit kind of used is the only word I can think of after. And he did that thing after of lying on me so I cant move but he does it as a joke and I say get off a few times and he doesnt and then I pushed him off because i couldnt breath and he didnt do anything so there were no repercussions.
I feel like everyone is telling me it's awful but if it feels like he is hyst desperate for sex. And yes I know the reason I dont want sex with him is because of the things he has done and it makes me think of sex in a different way and I'm kind of scared of it.
But he doesnt get that because he doesnt think he is doing anything wrong and I know exactly how the conversation would go if we sat down (for the millionth time) and I spoke about it telling him it's wrong and he should listen when I say no...i know he would act shocked and say things about other women wanting it all the time and he doesnt ever get sex and he is missing it that's all.
Then I feel like theres something wrong with me...and there is in a way because we dont have a normal sexual relationship and I'm never wanting it atm for a variety of reasons. I feel bad and unsure and I just dont know.
He doesnt seem like a "bad" person to me. I feel like I'm the bad person. I cant explain it. I'm just so fed up and completely 5050 and dont know what to do or what's right and what's wrong. Etc. My heads a mess.

Should I be doing more to stop him and is it my fault? When it happens it's like my mind goes blank and I dont know what to do.

None of this is your fault - you shouldnt be having to stop him in the first place OP at all. You are not at fault at all.

I suspect that both of you grew up in highly sexualised environments where you often saw inappropriate behaviours between adults. You dont have a normal sexual relationship in part because of this and in part because of his forcing.

But the root of all of this OP is STOPPING THE CYCLE. It doesnt to some extent matter what the root of all of this is, whether it is your fault (it isnt) his fault due to his personality or due to his disordered upbringing. Because it is your CHILDREN. it is them who are living in this not only incredibly controlling environment where they cannot have a voice but an overly sexualised one where they at any point could see their father groping/assaulting or raping their mother.

I am not sure you get the repercussions of what would happen and what safeguarding measures would be put in place at school if they did. But certainly I would not be surprised if they starting acting it out.

At best if you do want to see the best in him this has caused him to be a rapist who doesnt understand that his attitudes to sex are wrong (and actually I dont buy that at all) and that his need for means that he can take it when his own daughter is there without seeing it.

Get your children out of there on your terms OP. Before something happens that it isnt on your terms at all. Because I cannot possibly see how living in that environment wont have an awful effect on their own boundaries.

We are just going around and around in circles here.

Yes goldfish I get that I feel like that too. I'm going round and round in circles in my head all the time and jyst as I feel like I've got things straight and know what to do something happens or my brain throws out thoughts for me to deal with and then I'm totally unsure again.
I'm sorry it's frustrating for you. It's frustrating for me too.
Ok the thing is. They dont see anything. He would stop if he heard anyone coming. It isnt violent. He is not doing it in front of the kids. I would be astounded if they noticed anything at all tbh. So that's why it's hard for me. I feel like if I leave...I'm doing it for me. The kids will be worse off. Unhappy uprooted and traumatised.

Stop kidding yourself OP they see a lot. He is doing it with your DD there. They have seen Daddy go into the room with mummy and presumably hear raised voices. Stop normalising this. It is bad - they are aware of an awful lot more I suspect than you are willing to admit too. Children are sponges they take in a lot more than anyone thinks. The dynamic is there for all to see about how he is and how his views go.

They are unhappy and traumatised now. Break the cycle while you can. Before it spills over into school and inappropriate behaviour then

What did your DD tell you - she doesnt have a voice - is that what you want her to feel going forward that men have a voice and she doesnt.

You are minimising it now. It is bad it is awful and you have to get them out before someone does it for you

OP I’m not sure where you get this idea that every child who’s parents split up are ‘traumatised’ this simply
Isn’t the case. I have two children by two fathers (I hate this fact but that’s life) and neither of them have been bothered by the break ups, yes they do the normal missing them etc, but after about 4 weeks kids feel like it has always been this way, they visit their dad etc. They are young enough to just adapt, and your daughter has already expressed feeling like she cant have a voice around her father, believe me I think you idolise him as a father more than they do. Every child loves their parents but you cannot put a price on them feeling happy and relaxed at home, and you know yours are on edge. That other thread that people said to read, the lady had to quit her part time job etc and go to a refuge but she added an update yday and after only 2/3 weeks there she’s now in her own place. Kids were fine and made friends at refuge. Kids adapt a lot better than adults OP so please stop worrying your going to ruin their life, the only way that will happen is if you stay. You have said a few times ‘I’m definitely going to leave him’ so if that is a fact you can argue in your head 1000 times but if the end result is always going to be you leaving him then surely the sooner the better while the kids are so young and you are you and can start a new fresh life. It will be the making of you and your children. Also may I add, my home now is a 1/4 of the size of my first home with my eldest dad, we had nice things cars holidays, but it wasn’t right to stay just because my eldest would have had a nicer life there on paper, because I wasn’t happy. Please stop beating yourself up from taking them away from their current life, they are just materials. I have managed to provide a nice life on my own. So will you. Xx

Thank you Sally that's really reassuring. I didnt necessarily mean separating but the way it's done. Taking them away from everything. Wondering when they will see daddy again. I feel like it's not fair. Yes he is stricter than me etc but he is a good dad..he loves them. They love him.
Quartz I dont think I am minimising I think I'm just saying how it is. There why I worry that everyone thinks it is worse than it is. I am writing exactly what happened.
I think I only raised my voice once. It was more the time that I used. They were oblivious playing with their new walky talkies.

OP you've posted countless examples on here about times he's behaved - in your opinion - really badly towards the children.
Why don't you have a read back through some of them? That's partly why you post isn't it, for your own records? Have a read and remind yourself.

You'd be leaving not only for yourself. He's not a good dad. No dad is a good dad who teaches his children that their mum is an object for his sexual gratification, and that's what he's teaching them.

By just writing the facts you are minimising the impact OP of what he is doing emotionally to the children.

He isnt a good Dad at all - everything revolves around him, his needs, his sexual needs. Even the plain facts show that.

And by minimising it is your continual assertions that they arent seeing any of it. Which sadly OP just isnt the way it works - they are sponge like and taking in everything. All of his innuendos, his desire for them to be somewhere that the two of you arent is impacting on them.

The only thing you can do for you children is to leave. Or the cycle will continue.

And I dont think I am the only poster who actually thinks rather than making it seem worse I think there is so much that you just assimilate as being normal I think you downplay it. As the above poster has said this and your other thread is littered with frankly abusive parenting on his part and things your children have said.

That’s ok OP, just wanted you to see in this day and age people really aren’t bothered if people split up or not, the kids are bothered at first then it becomes the new normal and they start to enjoy having two homes to go to etc. They will still see dad, if it’s a refuge it will just be a few weeks, in the grand scheme of things they are never going to remember them few weeks, just think of kids who’s dads are in the military and stuff and don’t see their dads for months on end and they are fine and okay, and in your case it’s just a one off. If guilt ruled our lives I woukd still be with my eldest dad, unhappy, I wouldn’t have had my youngest, I wouldn’t own my own little home or have a
Career at all. I would have been dead behind the eyes, it’s your life too OP put yourself as your feelings first, some people literally just leave their husband because they don’t want to be married anymore, there doesn’t have to always be big horrible reasons, and that is their right as a human, so don’t feel like you have to have a big list of reasons why (I mean you have plenty of reasons) but what I mean is in future if anyone asks why you left him it is perfectly acceptable to answer ‘because I didn’t want to be married to him anymore’ and that is that. You don’t have to threat about what if so and so doesn’t believe me etc, you don’t have to delve into every reason why. This is your life you will never get another, I have wasted over a decade of my life with two men I should have called it quits with after maybe 2 years, I now look back at them wasted years and kick myself as I have nobody to blame but myself. Hoping things would change hoping things would get better, he’s set in his ways OP he’s only going to get worse. If he’s so desperate for sex why can he relieve himself in the shower? Because he doesn’t want to, he wants to hump you and act like an embarrasment day in day out to try and make you feel like you owe him sex. You owe him nothing,
You gave him your life and now it’s time to take it back. Xxx

OP I feel so badly for you, this is genuinely the single worst story I've ever followed on MN and my heart is breaking for you because you blame yourself instead of him.

He is a rapist.
He is tiptoeing around very real child sexual abuse.
You will be worse off if you stay.
Your children will be so much worse off if you stay.

I can't say it any other way, I wish so hard I could scoop you all out of there, have him arrested for his horrific sexual abuse of you, and wave a magic wand to make you see your own worth and right to bodily autonomy. Unfortunately that's a step you have to take, you know deep down how wrong this is and he is gaslighting you into doubting yourself. He is terrifyingly horrific, and I'm only reading about him. I'm so so very sorry you're living this nightmare.

I really feel for you OP as can see how difficult it is for you. I think it’s interesting you don’t think of him as a bad person. What would you think would make him bad? I think everything you have written on here makes him a bad person. Would you be happy with your daughter being in a relationship like this?

‘Bad’ men aren’t just those that are physically violent, think about the psychological abuse that is going on here. You are thinking everything is your fault all the time but he is the one sexually abusing you! He disrespects you every time he does something you do not consent to, every time you say no, get off etc and he continues, that is abuse and makes him a bad person. I really hope you are able to get to safety one day x

Thank you everyone. I think with having him off for 4 days it really messed with my head.
I emailed womens aid support worker and told her what happened his morning and also asked when refuge would be open again

OP, you have said that both you (and you think him) have been affected by your respective childhoods (him to become an bullying, controlling abusive rapist. , and you to have learned to normalise and accept his appalling treatment of you and your children. )

And yet, even believing this, you keep saying that YOUR children, growing up around what he is doing to you and what they see is happening, are not affected?

Think about that, and how YOU were affected by your childhood circumstances.

Do you really, truly, honestly think that what is going on is not affecting your children? That they don't see, or know, or absorb at least some of what is going on around them?

Honestly? You were affected, but a similar situation won't affect them? Really?

Is this what you want for your children, to grow up and continue with this cycle of abuse and being abused?

I don't think it is, I don't think you do.

Please, get out as soon as you can covid allowing, and stop making excuses for him.

He's an abusive, controlling rapist and he is NOT kind, or a "good dad", just because very occasionally he is not as awful to you and the children.

X posted with your latest post. So glad you emailed the support worker!

Catmaiden ky childhood was completely different. I was shown pornpgraphic images. Videos of streaking. I was subjected to my mother and father naked and touching each other up often. Not in another room pr covered with a duvet. Right in front of me and laughing almost enjoying my discomfort.
I would often go to the bathroom and my father would be waiting there penis in hand. I developed a few of going to the toilet and often wet myself. Not that anyone knew that because I was ashamed and cleaned it myself. I knew if my mum found out I wet myself I would probably get my nose shoved in it and a smack along with hours of ridicule.
Other things happened which are worse but can you see the contrast.

Op this is heartbreaking. I'm glad you've emailed the women's aid worker.
As others have said your children will pick up more than you know. The looks, the tension, the fake smiles, the body language. The fear. Children are intuitive. I'm not saying it to make you feel bad, just trying to help you see that leaving him would benefit the children.

I hope you don't mind me saying but you do have a very distorted view of your responsibility to his sexual needs. I'll give you an example - I was in a LTR where I was under a lot of stress (work and family issues) and my sex drive disappeared. My BF was frustrated, but never demanded or expected anything of me. We had some frank conversations about it, and in six months probably had sex around 2-3 times, maybe less. He didn't grope me, pressure me or compare me to other women. I remember apologising to him about his 'needs', he laughed gave me a hug and told me that men are pretty capable of dealing with those needs when they want (wanking, basically). As long as he knew that I cared, wasn't expecting to commit to a sexless relationship forever, he was supportive.
That's the kind of thing that happens in committed healthy relationships. It sounds like your partner has convinced you of something very abnormal, or has taken advantage of the upbringing you've had to allow you to assume this is normal.

Being a 'good dad' means being a good enough parent 99% of the time. That includes his behaviour to you, being a role model, being focused on the kids. Putting their needs before his wants. He doesn't do that. Playing with children for half an hour or buying them things doesn't make someone a good dad. Pretty much anyone can do that.

OP your childhood was horrendous, you've posted about it on other threads. You were awfully sexually abused
This dreadful experience is impacting your ability to understand what's happening in your own house. Most people have a frame of reference of what a "normal", abuse-free childhood is, and are able to observe deviations from that and, as a result, quite quickly identify things that feel wrong and are wrong for a child to experience.
Very sadly your experience is at the other end of the scale. You're trying so hard to figure out what "normal" looks like but the only reference you've got is quite extreme sexual abuse. So how can you possibly identify where "normal" is? It's extremely, extremely difficult. You're drifting into an argument, with your post above, that says if it wasn't as bad as what you experienced then it's probably fine.
It's not.
Please listen to all the posters on here who are telling you that what your kids are experiencing isn't fine. Please listen to the WA lady who essentially told you the same thing. It will take a huge amount of therapy to unpick what you've been through, and continue to go through, it's so unbelievably awful - in the meantime though please accept what everyone on pages and pages here are telling you, what the WA lady is telling you, that this is not a good environment for your kids and they will be negatively affected by it. You need to get out, and stay out.x

OP, you have just, again, justified his abuse of you and the children as "not as bad as what happened to me, so it's ok"

This is common in abuse. It's not your fault, it's a way your mind learns to cope with the situation you are stuck in at this moment

What happened to you as a child was horrific, I cannot express how sorry I am that you went through that.

And, you are correct, what your children are going through now isn't "as bad" as what was done to you.
However, it is STILL appalling! It really really is.

And sooner or later something will happen, or someone will say something and your children will become part of a Safeguarding investigation.

You need to get you and them out, asap.

Honestly, only a lot of councelling will help you unpick all of this stuff in your head. It can be done, you can get there but you need to be out and away from him to start to heal.

I have been where you are, I got away and my life is so much better, and my mental health is so much better, after councelling.

You can do this.