September 2020 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's now September 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hello @NelAntarctic - going NC is probably the hardest thing I have ever done. The guilt of it ate me alive. It took me over 2 years of feeling totally heartbroken every single day. And there were many times when I came very close to making contact again. I know those feelings were driven by FOG - fear, obligation, guilt.

I don't regret my decision for a single moment and I've had some great support from comrades on this thread. I had a wobble before Christmas when the usual passive-aggressive crap turned up from my sister, and I felt really really bad. So I came here and everyone was reminding me not to make contact, and they were right.

My life is so much better without the toxic sister and mother. But it's not easy.

Be kind to yourself, and know that nobody has a right to make you feel like shit. Just because they are your family of origin (FOO), doesn't give them carte blanche to ruin your life (or rule it).

My life belongs to ME and I will choose who I share it with. Welcome to the thread.

@Blahblah84 - the guilt is the hardest part. I viewed it as a heavy overcoat that didn't belong to me, that I had been forced to wear for my whole life. I chose to take it off, leave it on the ground, and walk away. It was never my coat.

Blahbah

Life is tough for you, let alone your mother. And besides which she has never given you any real consideration either.

Its ok to walk away from your parents, far more than ok. Deal with your FOG and free yourself from their respective tyrannies of you. Reclaim your life!.

You absolutely need to move back out asap and away from your mother's sphere of influence. Moving back in under the circumstances was never going to work anyway also due to your mother being a narcissist. She has and will continue to make everything all about her. You very much remain the scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

Do you think your mother feels any guilt; not a bit of it. Guilt is but one of many damaging legacies she installed in you, she put the guilt button in and trained you from early childhood to serve and otherwise attend to her.

But she is not alone because she is still with your dad. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so look for a willing enabler to help them, your dad. He also failed you as a parent because he failed to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. He made a choice and chose her, he sacrificed you children out of self preservation, his own weakness and want of a quiet life.

I would also assume that your mother is going to get further angry and throw toys out of the pram because she will become pissed off that your dad is getting more attention than she.

Sicario, I love the idea of guilt as a big thick floor length heavy donkey jacket style coat, shrug it off and then burn the damn thing!
Also remember to use covid to its fullest advantage, it provides excellent cover, lots of highly plausible reasons to distance yourself from people....

Thank you @Sicario. Your message means a lot. Everyone's messages mean a lot. I thank you for the welcome.

In one of our last text exchanges (I refuse to discuss things with her face to face because of the way she behaves - denial, more lies, gaslighting, escalating to aggression, then her last trump card is sobbing hysterically, so I will only address her accusations by text lately), I told her that she had to start being more honest as our relationship was hanging by a thread. Her response was to call me "insolent" and "disrespectful". I withdrew from the exchange as she accused me of so much, when I asked her to explain her accusations, she wouldn't.

I haven't heard from her since but have received a number of texts from DBro to stop harassing her. It would appear that she got straight on the phone tell him him how much grief I'd given her. I was tempted to screenshot her messages to send him but I've not responded to anything from him for the past 6 months.

I've told DH some parts of my childhood but not all. I haven't shared it with anyone apart from the mental health nurse who helped me in my 20's. It's not a burden I'd lay on anyone's shoulders.

@NelAntarctic - can I suggest you either block both mother and brother's number or change your phone number. I stopped answering the phone to family members. The sight of any of their numbers just made me feel physically ill.

Her response was to call me "insolent" and "disrespectful
Wuuuut
is she a ducking army sgt major or something, jeeze she's a fruit cake, you should just laugh at her
I know it's not that simple, I know b/c I spent decades intimidated by my own ludicrous mother and her outrageous behaviour, for me the worst thing is not what she did and said it's that I never had the opportunity to wipe the floor with the stupid bitch
I know the best thing is to keep your dignity, silently turn and walk away

nel I’ve gone very low contact with my Mum, it was the best thing I’ve ever done. Be strong my love.

Hello.

I’m new to the thread. Although I’ve read a lot on and off over the years.

I have a difficult relationship with my parents. They divorced when I was 5. They hated each other and my mum used to tell me how much she hated dad... and how much I reminded her of him. I was only allowed to see him every other weekend and eventually our relationship fizzled out. He remarried and moved away. Every so often we make contact but it’s like chatting to a distant relative. My mum also remarried and had another kid (I wasn’t allowed to tell my dad about my sibling).

I’ve always had quite a difficult relationship with mum. I am not good enough for her. She worries what people think like I’m an embarrassment.

Over the years:

I get a good job and earn more than my siblings yet she tells me “you don’t live up to my expectations” because it’s not a traditional job.

As a teenager I’m constantly told I’m fat.

Eventually I look towards fad diets and laxatives... my mum finds out and I can still remember the shame she made me feel. There was no apology or kindness or love.

My mum once told me I looked good... I was 19, I weighed 8stone and I was starving myself. I can remember it like it was yesterday.

I used to go to the gym. Something I enjoyed. My mum advises I stop because I’m getting “bulky” (from the treadmill?!)

My mum has hated every single boyfriend I’ve ever had including my now husband.

My mum ruined my wedding. I cannot look at my pictures without feeling cross and upset. It was not a happy time at all.

She criticises my friends. Usually based on looks. I find it uncomfortable and it makes me feel like I’m not even related to these bitchy people.

My mum told me I’d need to lose weight before I considered trying on bridal gowns. I weighed 10stone. She told me that at my engagement party.

Every time she comes round she criticises my home/cleaning/town. And constantly confuses my own thoughts until I’m not sure what I want anymore. “So you’ll want to move soon, this house is far too small”

She criticised my parenting but in a very hidden way. Especially over food for kids. Like I don’t feed them vegetables! Again for context they are all very average children in 50th centile for weight.

For context: I now weigh between 10-11 stone. And wear a size 12. Yeah I could do with losing a few pounds but I’m not huge.

My friend recently suggested my mum has narcissistic tendencies (she cannot believe some of the stories I’ve told her over the years) so I started to research and I can definitely see it now.

My younger sibling is definitely the favourite. Of course my siblings mum and her dad are still together so it’s hard to feel part of their family. Sibling has a very admired job, was a popular child at school. My parents do things like “isn’t xxxxx’s house lovely, wouldn’t you like to get one like that?”

At the moment I’m low contact due to a falling out in November. It’s opened a can of worms for me and I can’t see a way back. All the years of hurt has come to the front of my mind. It’s not even related to the original argument.

I could write a whole thread on my stepdad. Another day. He makes it clear I’m different to his child.

I have loads to get off my chest but that will do for now! I hope I’m in the right place.

I’m desperate not to be like my parents. I tell my children I love them daily. And I tell my children that they are beautiful, and clever and kind on a daily basis. We hug a lot and I hope they think I’m a good mum.

@2021ismyyear wow your mum and mine sound so similar! I

I often feel guilty ranting about my DM on here when some others on here have been through absolute hell and physical and sexual abuse, but I really believe having parents like ours is like death from a 1000 cuts.

My DM is obsessed with my weight (which I know from therapy is a narcissistic trait). When I was pregnant with DD all she was interested in was how much weight it had put on and got so frustrated when I said "I don't know, haven't weighed myself in months".

The only compliment I ever received was when I had lost weight. I was going through a breakup in my 20s and was def underweight at the time.

I had a cousin visit the Uk from Australia with his young family last year and the only thing my DM had to say after his visit was to "such a shame Cousin is turning out the same shape as his DM". His DM for the record has a great figure and is a beautiful lady. My DM is just a nasty piece of work.

I haven't spoken to her since July and am currently 6months pregnant with my second. Although I am wracked with guilt for missing Christmas and for stopping her seeing her only grandchild I just cannot bring myself to make contact.

Death from a thousand cuts.
That's such a good description.

After unleashing her vitriol in reams and reams of texting, I received another text last night asking if I needed from the cash and carry.

This is the pattern - given a verbal kicking, dropping new bombs of accusations, how I've behaved badly, how I'm apparently filled with hatred towards her (I'm not capable of hatred - I don't have it in me), how I 'should have been taken in hand years ago etc etc only for it aaaaaaaaall to be forgotten with a "Do you need anything from Bookers? Xx"

I'm not one to hang onto negativity, but I have to sometimes re-read the texts to remind myself that it's not me going mad.

I just don't want the drama anymore.

Drop the rope she holds out to you. Get off this merry go round you are still on. You have to let go of any and all hope that she will somehow change. It is really not possible to have a relationship with someone like your mother, it really is not. She will never apologise nor accept any responsibility for her actions.

Hi everyone, hope everyone is coping OK in these difficult times. I've been on these boards for a number of years now due to my own toxic parents. However this time I'm here about my partners parents.
Recently she's been talking about her mothers quite alot and I can see she is struggling with the guilt of not speaking to her and engaging in her awful behaviour. I want to help her but I don't want her to feel overwhelmed with my advice. Should I just let her come to me and tell her I'm always here to talk to?

@NelAntarctic - sounds very similar to the behaviour pattern in my sister who I am now pretty sure has a personality disorder. It's the only logical explanation. How can a person say such terrible things then act as though nothing happened and everything's normal? Like, WTF???

Like you - I just couldn't handle the drama anymore.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you are so right. I have never heard her say "Sorry". Honestly, it's not in her toolkit to say it.

I've been emotional crutch all my life, since a child. She told me way too much - about her horrible childhood, all the abuse she suffered, even hinted at sexual abuse, told me she had cancer when I was a young child -'really terrified me. I was an emotional crutch and often, her punchbag when she was angry. In my teens, I held on to her wrists once when she was punching me (in the face) and she actually pretended to call the police and accuse me of beating her. Like us all here, I could write reams of things that are lodged in my mind, but hey, she was a good Mum because she took us on day trips and took us to our hobbies, right?

I'm just glad that I've been a better parent than her. I can laugh with my children - freely. Something that I never did with my own.

I'm putting massive distance between us now and am prepared for what's to come. Thank you for listening to me.

I now need to reading to understand more. I don't think I'll truly heal until she dies. And yeah, I feel enormous guilt saying that.

@Sicario thank you. It's so strange isn't it? I truly think that they aren't aware of their thoughts or of how damaging they are to others. Is it something that should be pitied? I know I can't 'fix' her. I've tried to love her, I really have.

@Givemethechocolate I don't know for sure. I'm only just stepping onto the path myself after many years of struggling.

Maybe point her in the direction of these board to read. They truly are eye opening.

It's a start

I don't think I'll truly heal until she dies
I feel the same about my 'rents, obviously it's not something I'd openly admit to apart from on here.
I feel that in part the underlying issue with these types is a refusal to step aside and let their children be fully adult, that being the case it makes sense that we don't feel able to properly live until they have gone.

@NelAntarctic - I know. It's tragic, isn't it? My sister has no idea of the hurt she has caused and the damage she has wreaked. Nobody ever dared challenge her - she's always been like that. Totally explosive then acts like everything's normal.

I got sick of picking the shrapnel out of my wounds, healing for a while, then going back in to forgive and move on. But she's done this to me so many times that I had to say "no more". My mother was violent and abuse (not to her - she's much younger than me). And then I saw a parallel in their behaviours.

It was a shock. I'm well out of it and I'm learning not to feel bad about it any more. That's the thing that takes a long time.

So hang on in there and know that you're not wrong, and it's not you - it's them. You've been told otherwise for so long that it's hard to believe. But it's really not you. It's them.

Explosive then acts like everything's normal
That's my mother
She was fond of phrases like, least said soonest mended, sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me
she felt that because she got angry and then got over it quickly everyone else should also get over it quickly
If I could time travel I would go back and explode every time she exploded then see how quickly she got over it

I agree with Atila, she won’t own up for her mistakes or apologise. People like that just don’t, harsh as it is. It’s taken years for me to accept it, I’m not at peace, but I’m getting there.

Just need to sort out the old noggin now. #cheersmum

Bumping this for Brown Shed.

Ok not sure if this thread could help but I've been pointed in this direction so hopefully you can 😊

I have been on and off contact with my mum for years now I feel as though she’s a narc through and through. Anyway we’ve been in contact for a year now and trying to rebuild the relationship I’ve a 9 month old baby and a 2 year old daughter. Anyway she’s now decided that she wants me to cut my stepdad off completely.

He’s been in my life since I was about 5, and he’s been split from my mum for about 15 years now, hes the biological father to my sister who I am very close to she’s like my best friend. Anyway hes always been there for me, admittedly when we was younger he wasn’t the most pleasant of people made mistakes but he’s tried to right his wrongs and I feel that everyone deserves a second chance. His and my mums relationship wasn’t the best a lot of issues violence between them both it was a mess.

Anyway he’s been around ever since they split and I’ve always been in touch. My mum doesn’t like me talking about him and I never do i don’t invite him to places / events birthdays etc if she’s going to be around it’s always seperate she would come first. Anyways this Christmas I asked her for Christmas dinner she declined and decided to spend with my brother which was completely fine.
I then invited my sister and my step dad as they live together. Anyway when she found out she hit the roof said that I’ve betrayed her I’m not loyal he shouldn’t get to spend Christmas with her grandchildren etc etc. Now she’s gave me the ultimatum that I either cut him out of my life completely no contact whatsoever or she doesn’t want anything to do with me. (But she still wants to see my children)

I just can’t do this as I do not feel that she is being fair. She’s saying I’m using my children against her but I’ve said we are a family and come as a unit she can’t have a relationship with them and not me! Also my daughter is almost 3 and sees my stepdad as a grandad.

Do you feel that I am in the right? I know he’s not my biological father and I know he’s made mistakes in the past but so has she and I have forgave her and moved on. She can’t let go of the past for the sake of her own future and would rather ruin our relationship. I just don’t get it.

I hope this explains things there is so much background with me and my mum we’ve been in and out of contact a lot over the years. The last time we lost contact I’d just had a baby and I asked her to let me know before hand when she was coming round to visit to which she took that as me asking her to make an appointment to see her grandchildren to which she never spoke to me for 9 months, she even went to my DP parents in that time and made up lies about me to them but I forgave her for this.

@jollybobs89, hi😊
Your mother is completely in the wrong
As for her ultimatum😳do not react to this at all, in your mind quietly laugh at her ridiculousness that she thinks she can give you an ultimatum and you will take this seriously and do her bidding🙄
Just ignore her, act like she didn't even say it.
You relationship with your stepfather is yours, you are the one who gets to choose how to manage it whether you want to keep it or not.
Your mother's objective is to control you so that she gets what she wants, only you can decide if it's best to cut her out completely or just 'minimize' her, but you need to ignore her nonsense, if she hits the roof walk away and let her have her silly storm in a teacup.
Get back in control of your life and ignore this silly mad woman!