September 2020 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's now September 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

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Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

When I said I had no idea as I was too busy working, taking relative to doctors, doing her shopping, homeschooling kids etc she said she had spent a fortune on my kids presents so I need to tell her what to buy relative
I would suggest that you just reply that you dont know, dont give a reason, the reasons just give her an 'in' to start wrestling with you.
Just keep repeating that you dont know and change the subject, once you realise how easy it is to shut her down you'll be on a roll.
Buying present for the grandchildren is a way to earn double points, she ensures the loyalty of the children such that they will never believe the true version of her if/when you tell it, and it makes you feel beholden.
They know EXACTLY what they are doing, never forget that!

My sister doesn't work and lives out of mum's bank account. (As does her DH who is her main narc supply and a total shit-stirring arsehole.)
that does sound very dysfunctional, as if your mother has completely 'owned' your sister, she has her hooked on the payroll b/c she wants her to be completely obligated to her

It’s Christmas and this year I get to face the face that my bloody mother has definitely succeeded in usurping me and taking over as the True Mother Figure in my (20 year old) son’s life. It’s so depressing.

Brief(ish) background: I have crappy parents. They divorced in an acrimonious and drawn our way from when I was 12-25. Both of these wonderful people used me as a weapon against the other and it was crap. It’s had predictable effects on me and my life.

My dad is an alcoholic and a nightmare. He’s managed to alienate pretty much his entire family at this point (one of my cousins still has contact with him because he believes ‘there’s a good man in there somewhere’; everyone else has given up believing there’s a good man at all). I only know this because DH recently decided we should get in contact with my dad. I’ve decided it might just be best if he discovers the truth for himself since he doesn’t seem to appreciate that my family is not your standard family. So DH has been in contact with him (not me). My mum and my sister will go mental when they find out.

My mum is less obviously toxic. But possibly worse for that. She’s the kind of person who appears ever so helpful and generous but it’s all about control. She is overbearing and takes over everything and then becomes really nasty if you don’t do what she wants. She loves it if you’re dependent on her in some way. My sister is very enmeshed with her and thinks she’s perfect. (My sister was my mum’s chosen favourite in the divorce battle).

I had DS1 at 19. It was an accident but, looking at it objectively, it was your classic girl from a useless family having a baby because frankly she needed to love someone (and be loved). But, of course, I had no money and nowhere to live. So my mum ‘helped’. But, as always, her enormous generosity was about keeping me (us) dependent on her not helping us to become independent. So she’s always been a big feature in DS’s life.

When he was 5 I finally managed to move away (tellingly, I did it while she was on holiday and organised it all while she wasn’t there to make it impossible). I moved further away when he was 8. again, she was no help with this - there’s a definite pattern of ‘help’ so long as it keeps you tied to her. Not if you need it to get away. We’re talking things like I had to give up a place at Cambridge because she wouldn’t help me with figuring out the logistics of moving there and studying with a preschool child in tow. She wanted me to stay where I was.

I met my ex and we had DS2. My mum behaved truly dreadfully around his birth because basically she wasn’t in control. My ex - for all his many faults - did help me to stand up to her. But she still managed to monopolise DS1 during that time.

She’s always had a very superficial relationship with DS2. But she’s had more opportunity to influence DS1 because he regularly went back to stay with his dad and he’d always let my mum ‘help’ with babysitting etc. In contrast, she saw DS2 about 4 times in the first 3 years of his life.

Over the years, DS1 has become closer and more dependent on my mum. And I’ve been the enemy and the problem (as was my ex - who genuinely just wanted the best for DS and for him to do well at school and grow up into a decent human being). My mum has an obsession with people in the family having ‘special needs’. She’s diagnosed herself as dyslexic. My sister is dyslexic. DS1 is dyslexic (and I really think autistic to be honest). I, of course, am not dyslexic. But she uses this as a weapon and an excuse (and a way of keeping people dependent on her).

Over the years DS1 became more difficult and useless. And my mum positioned herself as the one he would listen to and who could help him. This was encouraged by DS1’s dad (who couldn’t get through to him either). By the time he was 16 he was failing loads of stuff at school and just full of excuses about it - it was everyone else’s fault but his. My mum encouraged these excuses. He wouldn’t brush his hair and was just a nightmare.

He failed everything and decided he would go to college. He didn’t work at anything and lied about attending and generally just didn’t bother his arse. So at the end of it all he’s left with no qualifications. He could easily have passed the course (I had so many phone calls with his tutors about it all). DH works in the industry the course was related to and offered him loads of help - both with assignments and networking etc. But DS did nothing (DH was so frustrated at his attitude). And it was all everyone else’s fault.

He left college with nothing and claimed he wanted an apprenticeship. By this point I had decided that DS needed to sort himself out. He was living in my house, unemployed, refusing to claim benefits or look for work, not washing etc. I tried to make him go to the GP about depression but he refused.

His dad (who until this point in DS’s life had done precisely zero parenting ; he had never looked after him overnight until he was 8 and even then it was holidays and fun) decided that we should be applying for jobs on DS’s behalf and I was awful for refusing to. This was my mum’s take on it too. It was apparently all my fault that DS just refused to submit any work. Or lied about attending college. And my fault he wouldn’t apply for jobs.

So he moved back to where we came from and in with his dad. He was 19. He is currently unemployed and has no qualifications. And he’s just allowing my Mum to run his life. He doesn’t communicate with me other than through my mum. I’m not willing or able to just keep going if he doesn’t answer messages or phone calls. He’d certainly never call me.

So we come to today. I’d messaged DS last week to ask him if he wanted to join our bubble and have Christmas with us. We’ve seen him once in 2020 (partly because of covid, but we didn’t see him before March either). He gets on well with DS2 but he never calls him or anything either (he’s 11 and has a phone, so he can do it even if he doesn’t want to speak to me). He’s also got a new baby brother (4months) that he’s seen once. So you’d think he’d maybe have some interest in spending Christmas here.

But no. My mum organised for his to speak to me today (and dominated the conversation, as usual). Apparently he’s decided he wants to stay at his dad’s but will be visiting my mum (where my sister and family will be spending Christmas).

She did say that she could come down here with my sister and DS1 on Boxing Day or the 27th but I had to point out that the rules are for exclusive bubbles of up to 3 households. Apparently I’m just a difficult person for following the sodding rules in a pandemic so I just won’t be seeing DS1 at Christmas.

So I’ve pretty much had it. Clearly DS1 doesn’t give a fuck about me or his brothers, and my mum has finally got what she wanted. She’s always acted like he’s her son and that’s the outcome she’s achieved. Sure, he’s totally useless and not in education or employment at 20, but that is even better because it means he needs her.

DH (on a brief break from work) just said that DS is clearly my mum’s latest victim.

I’m not sure what the point of this is, other than to rant. I wish I’d been mature and strong enough to keep DS away from my mum. I’m so glad I’ve done that with DS2 and I will with DS3 (to the point that I didn’t tell her about the pregnancy at all, and only told her after he was born). I sometimes think it must be me that’s the toxic and awful one. But I always had a brilliant relationship with my exPILs (who are normal, healthy people). I just got a total clusterfuck of a family.

Buying present for the grandchildren is a way to earn double points, she ensures the loyalty of the children such that they will never believe the true version of her if/when you tell it, and it makes you feel beholden.
They know EXACTLY what they are doing, never forget that!

Oh, it does appear that my mum fits right in with the other (grand)parents on this thread. 😩

It’s a hard situation because you look like the bad guy in refusing such kindness and generosity.

My sister and mother are both histrionic catastrophists who turn everything into a huge hand-wringing drama. My sister is always the hard-done-by martyr and now has a perfect excuse for not working (not that she ever has).

Her DH is too important to work (his business was a failure) and says that people who work are idiots. (Of course he can say this because there is always money in his pocket which comes from mum's bank account.)

My mother now just lets it happen all around her and doesn't say anything for fear of causing another toxic-sister explosion. All my life my mother would say of my sister, "oh she's just very sensitive you know." Nobody ever called her out on her awful behaviour because the fall-out would be so awful with her screaming and shouting and crying and blaming everybody else.

It is spectacularly fucked up.

@KumquatSalad You’ve clearly done everything you can for your DS1. It’s really hard to let go and leave them to get on with it, but it sounds like it’s the only sensible thing for you to do. Otherwise you’ll drive yourself nuts. It’s so much easier for him/them to blame other people for their own failures.

KumquatSalad
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this set up that they've 'locked' you into:(
Can you see (even if only the faint beginnings of) a pathway towards breaking free of all this control, can we help you with what steps to take?

I wish I’d been mature and strong enough to keep DS away from my mum
I hear you, I wish I'd the maturity to stand up to my mum when I was young, but how could I? she had total power over me as a child and she shaped me into the easy to control thing that she wanted me to be.
They know that you trust them completely and by the time you start to see through this it's often too late.
Dont blame yourself, but do try to learn from the past!

I think I have a pathway @Free3mee3. Certainly I’ve done a lot where I could over the last 10 years or so.

DH said to me tonight ‘you’ve really got it in for your mum’. But that’s not quite it. He just hasn’t experienced what she’s like because I keep her at arms length. And because his parents are (more or less - MIL is a piece of work in several ways) normal people. So he just doesn’t get the dysfunction.

She barely knows my DS2 really. He’s 11 now and she’s never looked after him overnight, for example. She just behaved so dreadfully around his birth that my ex stood up to her (and supported me in doing so). I didn’t see her for a long time after he was born. And I’ve never forgiven her. To the extent that I was so determined that I wasn’t giving her a chance to repeat what happened that I just refused to tell her about the pregnancy with DS3. DH found it very odd, but he just doesn’t understand.

I think I’m just so fed up today because it feels like she’s ‘won’ in her quest to appropriate DS1. And there’s nothing I can do. It’s like a continuation of what she sees as her victory in the parental alienation war she and my dad waged (with me in the middle). Thing is, he is more obviously worse. But that doesn’t make her OK. She still goes on about it as if not having a relationship with your parent for 20 years is something to celebrate.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for not telling me I'm being stupid - which I often feel I am!

I think it's so hard to wrap my head around because functional people would be concerned and want to apologise if they inadvertently hurt someone. When they can't see it and have it explained to them they at least will try to understand.
I think that's why I've turned myself inside out trying to explain why I'm so hurt etc, I keep expecting them to understand for some reason but in reality I know that is never going to happen.

It leaves you with such an odd feeling of hopelessness and loss. There have been times that I've thought to myself that I am just unlovable and difficult. Worried that previous abusive relationships/crappy friendships have actually been my fault or not as bad as I thought and more recently if my mum can't support and love me how am I supposed to expect anyone to love or support me.

I know this ^ is just disordered thinking and depression talking but it's hard to hold that in my heart at times.

I love my Dsis1 very much but in the last 10 years or so our relationship has gone downhill, I miss the days that I could tell her anything, just talk about stuff with her. We used to have such fun together and she was my closest confidant. Now I find most dealings with her very stressful and tend not to tell her much. There is always a drama on her end which makes me sad and stressed out. We communicate by text mostly now because I find the phone calls too much.
I think our dad dying really affected her (it did with us all obviously) but since then her behaviour and mental health seems to have gotten a lot worse.

I love Dsis2 as well but our relationship was never as close as I had with Dsis1. Dsis2 left home as soon as she was able and went pretty much as far away as she could so I didn't see her very much when I was younger. She moved back to our home town when I was in my late teens and we got a bit closer until a big drama kicked off (curiously enough it was Christmas related) where she acted extremely badly and I stopped speaking to her for a few years.
We made amends but don't talk often, I'm not sure that the relationship ever really recovered but at least we are on speaking terms again. I missed her when we weren't.

Dsis1&2 both had it a lot harder than I did growing up and carry a lot of profound damage from their childhoods which has caused mental health problems for both. As much as I feel for them and would wish they hadn't gone through what they both have, I feel like I can't entirely trust them, I never know who is telling the truth between them when they fall out and the stories are always polar opposites. The children get dragged into it too which is worse.

There is a part of me that worries when I have enforced a boundary and had to remove myself from the situation that I am "doing a dad" (withholding affection when people don't do what they are told or to enforce compliance) and vacillate between thinking their behaviour is bad to I'm overreacting about it.

Lots of internal struggling whether I am the crazy one or are they? Are we all as bad as each other?

There are times I really worry about my mental health deteriorating to the point where maybe I become the unreasonable one and don't realise it's happened. Some members of the family seem to have a passing relationship with reality sometimes and i worry will I lose my grip on reality too? Is what I'm experiencing real or has it happened already? Just awful.

Then there are the children, there are some still quite young children in the family who I don't want to lose touch with and I worry about one of the older ones in particular who has already had a very difficult time.

I hope everyone manages to survive the run up and actual Christmas period with the minimum amount drama for everyone who's on this thread.

@Doowninthedumps - hang on in there and keep on keeping on. I have eaten 4 mince pies and have taken to my bed early. Big hugs and high fives to all of us on the Stately Homes Tour. xxx

@Doowninthedumps this exactly matched what I think about a million times a week

"Lots of internal struggling whether I am the crazy one or are they? Are we all as bad as each other?
There are times I really worry about my mental health deteriorating to the point where maybe I become the unreasonable one and don't realise it's happened. Some members of the family seem to have a passing relationship with reality sometimes and i worry will I lose my grip on reality too? Is what I'm experiencing real or has it happened already? Just awful."

My absolute fear is that I am my dad and I don't realise it. When I'm really fearful this has already happened my poor DH will be trying to convince me it hasn't but I will be convinced that I have somehow conned him into believing me and my crazy assessment of the situation. I hate it!

Terriblezebra

This is a commonly expressed fear of adult children of narcissistic parents, the fear that the adult child is or will become exactly like their toxic parent in your case your dad. You are NOT a narcissist like your dad here and you have agency. You are not an extension of him, you are your own person here.

You also have two qualities that such toxic people lack and these are empathy and insight. Narcissistic people have neither, I cannot emphasise enough the narcissist’s lack of empathy. You have basically been trained from early childhood to put people like him first with your own self and needs dead last.

The narcissist never questions him or herself because they 'know' they are right, the fact that you are introspecting, questioning yourself tells you that you are not like them

@Doowninthedumps I can relate with much of what you say- you are not alone and you are not mad either! I wonder if your fear of "doing a dad" has been perpetuated by unhelpful comparisons by other people? I was constantly compared to my father "you are so like him when you do x....You are the image of your father.... You are your fathers daughter after all" blah blah blah. It's quite a burden to grow up with when your father is an asshole. Perhaps this is an play here- either way, you are not "doing a dad" you are self- exploring, creating boundaries and taking care of yourself which are all good things. Unfortunately what I've found is the process can feel a bit alienating especially when you are in the process of shedding the skin that our families of origin forced on to us.

Ah the dreaded text has arrived from my mum. It says:
"hi, not trying to lay plans on but we have gifts for you so when can we see you over Christmas"

I shall now dissect...

1. We're fine thanks, how are you.
2. You are trying to lay plans on
3. Don't care if you have gifts for us, just a 'we would like to see you' would be nice.
4. Funny you haven't mentioned the Xmas covid bubble you've already formed without us.
5. You don't have gifts for us because you keep pestering me to get dh's present from you sorted.

It's so frustrating, I can't handle it. Bloody Xmas faff, fucking bubbles, who's in, who's out. It's too much pressure, especially when you don't enjoy their company and haven't seen them in over 6 weeks.

Pears, how infuriating, it's worded so as to trap you/steer you into agreeing.
Umm, if this was me and one of my 'rents I might be tempted to respond in a way which completely ignores what she said, like 'isnt the weather cold, I hope it doesnt snow'
but that would be 'wrestling with the pig' .....
have you decided how/if to respond, ignore?

@Free3mee3 that's exactly what it feels like. I responded by saying we would have a think as I know their bubble is full. I had another message saying that they need to know so they can make plans.

I'm 32 weeks pregnant and really uncomfortable and fed up so I replied saying "ill get back to you another day. It's Saturday night and Im fed up of everyone telling me I need to fit in with them and their rules, with no consideration for our own" I'm not proud, but they needed telling! (as do my in laws but that's another story)

I've had a big cry over it, all the guilting from every direction. But this thread has been an absolute life line for me and I thank you all so much

Ughh:( they are all trying to take control of you!
YOU are the boss of you.
Look after number one Pears, firm boundaries, make a fortress around yourself and only let the trusted 'inner circle' people in

@Free3mee3 brilliant advice, thank you. You're right, I need to look after and prioritise myself. Stop trying to please everyone, especially those who don't actually care about my well being.

A narcissist’s worst nightmare is others getting attention, and them being reminded of their own defectiveness. This is why they continue to bully you and be aggressive in nature as they are projecting all their own insecurities onto you. A narcissist feels even more out of control at Christmas so you will often find that they will up their messaging, trying to start conversation, hoovering and love bombing all during the festive period.

Firstly it is in YOUR power how YOUR Christmas goes. You know the narcissists in your life will try and make everything about them and they will play the victim role BUT it is your choice how you respond to this and whether you feed their supply. It takes two people to be engaged in messaging and conflict so eliminate your side and you leave the narcissist arguing with themselves.

Do not expect ANYTHING from the narcissist and their attendant enabler and secondary abuser. Don’t ask them to get or do things because there will be excuses and false promises, anything that it takes to push your buttons, hurt you and get you to react. Don’t fall for it. Create new memories with you and your family that are fresh, happy and whole.

Be prepared for the inevitable accusations about you are stopping them seeing the children, or you won’t engage with them for the “children sake” at this time. DO NOT FALL FOR IT! These are all ways to ingratiate you back into conversation so they can control and manipulate you. Don’t bite, argue, explain or justify. You do not need to justify anything. NO is a complete sentence so get out of the habit of justifying to make them try and understand as they NEVER will and all this will do is upset and infuriate you even more. Say nothing and get on with it. Don’t respond to anything as your silence can be your response and this is a powerful one. The best you can hope for is that the narcissist takes off to get narcissistic supply elsewhere, and if they are not getting a rise off you, they will.

Do not confront them about their presents, time with kids or indeed anything because they will see this as an easy way to start dragging you back into engaged conversation and you will be back to feeding their narcissistic supply. Detach, disengage and ignore. Focus on what you can control and that is your environment with your family.

The narcissist can try and say that they still love you at this time or that they wish things had been different. These are all hoovering techniques and can be cranked up over the festive period. I know it can be hard as you see lots of other families all seemingly cosying up together but remember those days, weeks, months, years of walking on eggshells and this is a psychological tactic to merely draw you back in to feed their supply.

Knowledge is power in that you know they will behave like this, so zip on your teflon suit and expect the narcissist to up their mind games and manipulation but be prepared for it. You do not deserve to live a life of mere functioning but one of flourishing.

DO NOT :
JADE them (i.e justify, argue, defend or explain)
ENGAGE
REACT
RESPOND
SHOW EMOTION

DO :
MAKE NEW TRADITIONS
FOCUS ON YOURSELF
DISENGAGE FROM NARCISSISTS AND THEIR SECONDARY ABUSERS AND ENABLERS
IGNORE

Replying to them keeps lines of communication open, this needs to be closed.

Would also strongly suggest you keep your as yet unborn child well away from your parents going forward as well. They were not good parents to you when you were growing up and they won't be decent examples of grandparent figures to your kids either.

I hope the rest of your pregnancy goes well .

It's very horrible to realise but abusers are often drawn in when you are pregnant, they are attracted to the vulnerability.
I also feel that it is an attempt to get in early and undermine you, to disrupt you and stop you from assuming a fully adult parental role.
As Attilla says, silence is very powerful.

It’s so depressing to see the game playing. Xmas is the key time for mind games, isn’t it? And using the kids. I think that triggers even more: wanting to protect your children, seeing the “care” that you didn’t get (and we all know it’s not real care). They are HORRIBLE emotional vampires.

I had a complete meltdown yesterday. My mum popped round to drop something off and we had our socially distanced chat on the pavement. My mum was sorting out a really lovely takeaway from the great restaurant in the next village to her for our Xmas day and taking our orders. When she’d gone, I broke down and howled at not being able to see her more often and being stuck in the bubble with the hag of a mother in law.

I’m sure many of us are stuck in a bubble with people we dislike intensely and are in a long term “bubble” of Toxicity/Abuse. It’s bloody awful.

I’m 72 days sober and NEVER did I fancy reaching for a glass of wine more than yesterday. It’s the seemingly small things about the hag that trigger me.
I must count my blessings that I’m not spending my Xmas anywhere near the hag. I don’t engage with her on the phone anymore but I could hear Mr Monkey explaining AGAIN how Xmas is this year (We will be at my mums without her).

She’s an absolute fucking hag who thinks by going over the same old ground, by using the silent treatment, by manipulation, by guilt tripping she will wear us down. She ALWAYS gets what she wants. Not this time.

Hag also wants to catch us out: “did she (Mummy Monkey) go in the house?” No, she stood out in the bloody cold. The “going in the house” thing isn’t remotely about our safety, it’s about her being able to get her disabled son back into her clutches if it’s a case of “one rule for them, one rule for (poor old) me.”

I’m now open with Mr Monkey about how I feel. I’ve kept my mouth shut for the 16 years we’ve been together. Her illness and having her living here when she was ill and when she was having work done on her flat this year nearly broke me but it meant the feelings about her toxicity came into the open and I could finally talk about it. I have NEVER liked her. I spotted her as abusive as soon as I met her. I feel bad that it’s bubbled up out of me and he knows how I feel. I’m good at putting a brave face on it.

I have two weeks of this to go. I have to take her to my hairdressers when I get my hair done on the 15th. That’s the one thing I will do with her before Xmas. I’ve realised that my “treat” will be shared with her so I’m booking myself a pedicure for another day.

We will have Xmas on our terms and I can do a two hour lunch with her on NYD.

I can do this - I just need to keep my marbles and keep being strong.

Big hugs to everyone.

@Pearsapiece - sending hugs.

And to everyone - reading and taking part in this thread is a life saver. It has also caused all sorts of memories to resurface that I had forgotten about.

I hate a late miscarriage many years ago, and visited my parents when I came out of hospital. At this point my sister (who was still a teenager and living at home) declared that SHE had had a miscarriage too, burst into tears, and put on quite a performance. The way she described her experience was so far from what happens during mc that it was clear she was just making it all up.

When I was expecting my first child, she absolutely couldn't stand it and got pregnant within 2 months of my telling my family I was having a baby.

As I think back, the list goes on and on... She has deliberately sabotaged, attacked, ruined, blamed, accused, copied. It's unbelievable.

@MonkeyfromManchester - I haven't seen my MIL for years. I made it clear to DH that anything to do with his family is his responsibility. Their family dynamic is all about perpetuating the traditional subservient roles of women then bitching about each other. No thanks. Mercifully, because I never engaged with any of it (them) from the get-go I don't have a shred of guilt about it and couldn't give a fuck what they think.

If only I could adopt the same clinical feelings towards my own toxic family of origin. Must try harder.