September 2020 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's now September 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
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March 2011
November 2011
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May-August 2019
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Have been lurking for a few threads, not sure whether to post in middle of discussions and support for posters. Was directed here a while back after adding my experiences of punishment as a child for wetting self after a urine infection. I was never abused in the sense of the horror stories you read, always fed and clothed but was labelled as a ‘difficult and awkward child’ from the go. Picked the wrong parent to be close to, father turned out to be a serial adulterer which never knew until an adult. Mother clearly unhappy and not respected by my father but I got the criticisms, the name calling, the slapping ( until I was 17 and pushed her back ☹️, not my finest moment but she never slapped me again). I was bullied at school, they dismissed as teasing or own fault. Never praised, compared unfavourably to younger, more attractive sibling. Even as an adult my successes were mocked, I was a ‘rich bitch’...trust me I was not earning much, never cracked much more than average salary. Managed to do well with my partner through hard work, luck and sacrifices. Not been easy. Have had difficulties throughout my life with dealing with women in authority, ended up in toxic situations...had depression and anxiety, an eating disorder. Still awkward with parents. My successes are seen as detrimental to sibling, mother would say ‘your sibling will never have as nice a home as you.’...they made different choices, enjoyed life more.

Had put most of this behind me and just tried to ignore comments, limit contact but has come to a head again. Parents decided to give sibling nearly all cash needed to buy a new home, not their first, an upgrade. I was only informed after sale was agreed, ‘in case I objected.’ It isn’t about the cash, I have never asked or been offered any. I think it is foolish, their solicitor commented it wasn’t wise. But it is again the feelings of being unloved, second best. I know they were trying to be fair so sibling could have a nice home (they had a lovely place, this is bigger and flasher) but it is just another example of my mother favouring the ‘easy’ child.

Not sure what comments I expect. It isn’t about the cash, it is the years of belittling, name calling, slapping and leaving to be destroyed at school that has worn me down. I honestly can say I really am not close to either of them. My mother, I understand took out her unhappiness on me, my father, I no longer respect for his deceit.

"difficult and awkward" yes, that was me too. It still is me when the environment is right Sorry to hear your story. I was never slapped, ok maybe once, but I did witness a lot of violence. Fear is a great way to control kids :(

Can't relate to the cash thing as I don't think either my parents would ever help us in this way but then they don't have much money. Sorry, I digress . My first thoughts were, wow, how horrible for you, all the things you mention are very abusive especially to a child. Your success is hard earned, I've heard my parents refer to my successful siblings in a similar way to "rich bitch" and it's so hurtful. They should be proud. I also feel uneasy about the house thing, you say they are being fair but do you think this could be motivated by something else- I don't want to put words in your mouth.

How do your relationship with your sibling?

until I was 17 and pushed her back ☹️, not my finest moment but she never slapped me again
Golden, you were bullied and you found the courage to stand up for yourself, surely that was a fine moment!
your parents appear to be people who are completely lacking in self awareness or empathy, childlike.
I would treat them exactly as they deserve to be treated, low contact only, be civil but don't share anything, don't give anything, never offer your throat ...they will only rip it out

Goldensyrup

Well done for pushing back like you did at 17 years of age. That showed your so called mother and like all bullies she then backed down. She is also a coward. She is also most likely to be a narcissist; they often do what you have described and have a favourite golden child sibling and scapegoat for all their inherent ills (this being you). Your dad has merely enabled your mother here and is a weak man himself. He has also failed you completely as your parent.

It really is not possible to have a relationship with people this disordered of thinking. I would further lower all contact levels with your parents going forward to a point of zero sum. There is nothing to be gained really from maintaining such a relationship. You will never get the approval you seek and these people will never be the kind and loving parents you want them to be, they were not built that way. It is not your fault they are like this and their own families made them like that.

Thanks for your replies, did worry about posting. I get on well with my sibling, we don’t see much of each other, even pre-COVID, mainly cos of distance and also our mother would sulk if we saw each other without her.

Low contact is very easy now! Actually it is huge weight off my not being able to go, positives to a pandemic.

Think cash was given at my mother’s insistence but my dad is getting on and even said to me he’d like my sibling to enjoy their inheritance now. 🧐 but to be fair he has said I will get the same when they die 😯 although I am realistic enough this won’t happen simply with end of life costs and as I say it isn’t about the money but again being made to feel effortless again.

I agree with the comments about them being emotionally immature and both have odd family dynamics. My mother is very much the whipping boy of her family, well it swaps between the younger siblings.

Our mother would sulk if we saw each other without her
Let her sulk and do it anyway, do not let her prevent you having a good relationship with your sibling, she is worried that the two of you will be comparing notes and realising that she is taking the bleeding piss
this is just a bog standard 'divide-and-conquer' strategy used by those who seek to control and dominate others, do not let her do it

Can I join please?

DM divorced my alcoholic DF when I was 4. Due to various reasons he wasn't allowed contact with me and DB and she moved on pretty quickly - by the time I was 5 there was a new boyfriend who'd originally been a lodger. This man was 10 years younger than DM and did things like:-

• Lock me and DB in a bedroom for arguing (we'd have been 5/6 and 4/3).

• Locked us in a basement room of a house near family home with other kids - can't think why - just did it when we visited them.

• Hit us (smacked bottom) on a fairly regular basis not witnessed by DM. I can't be sure if DM smacked us - I think so but not sure. On one occasion he really hit my DB very hard due to DB teasing me badly, he lost control and it was so bad and prolonged (DM was out) that friends who were with us at the time, left the house, visibly shocked.

• Slapped me across the face once for back chatting and then had to apologise and bought me a toy because DM witnessed this.

• Would explode into rages every year or so - involved jumping up and down and screaming and we thought he'd hit all of us - really prolonged rages. After these - I recall my brother and I huddling in our room and being terrified and not knowing why/what - it seemed worse than a family row or row between him and DM.

• When I visited family home for dinner - he would often attack me verbally because I'm British and he's Irish - so attack me in this sense verbally, with a bottle of wine by his side and was very aggressive.

My DM says she hit me once - fine - but says I was vicious and scratched my DB - which is true, not sure why.

My nana (DGM) mum's mum rarely saw my stepdad apart from when she visited for Christmas etc - we always went to see her, she therefore called him a 'rock' and 'great for putting up with us kids, they aren't his own etc'.

My DM says he's a 'good man', and he denied a few years ago when I confronted him, hitting us - yet told my DM recently that we were 'good kids' - DB and his DW have a toddler so he sees them parent him well - no hitting etc.

I do have contact with them and see them but am not close to my stepdad - I don't see him as the loving parent and he also didn't speak to me for a few years over an argument. Stepdad has always been sarcastic and will say/do/mutter/grunt and think you hear him or don't. I never do the same back. We get on fairly ok now. My DM if I ever do say anything says 'why bring up the past?' or denies it yet I know this has affected me. Things weren't too bad in my teenage years and 20's - we all got on fairly well and in recent years same.

Another thing - we used to go out in the car and stepdad and DB would be left with me - I panicked if DM wasn't back and stepdad teased me telling me DM had gone away and wouldn't ever come back - as a 5/6/7 year old I believed him - he encouraged DB to do the same and I got really upset. I was of course worried it was like with DF - she wouldn't come back like he didn't do, DB was only 2/2.5 when DF had to leave so no memory of that.

I don't think my DM is a narcissist (sp?) but I do think she didn't want to be without a man - so put up with the bad stuff and kept it quiet from others. I do think a bit of gaslighting has gone on.

I'm torn between cutting down visits to parents unless I have to but DB and his family would be hurt - DB hasn't done anything wrong. DB likes things to be 'happy families'.

I'm seen as 'causing drama' if I bring this up.

Thanks for reading.

@Goldensyrupissticky

Have been lurking for a few threads, not sure whether to post in middle of discussions and support for posters. Was directed here a while back after adding my experiences of punishment as a child for wetting self after a urine infection. I was never abused in the sense of the horror stories you read, always fed and clothed but was labelled as a ‘difficult and awkward child’ from the go. Picked the wrong parent to be close to, father turned out to be a serial adulterer which never knew until an adult. Mother clearly unhappy and not respected by my father but I got the criticisms, the name calling, the slapping ( until I was 17 and pushed her back ☹️, not my finest moment but she never slapped me again). I was bullied at school, they dismissed as teasing or own fault. Never praised, compared unfavourably to younger, more attractive sibling. Even as an adult my successes were mocked, I was a ‘rich bitch’...trust me I was not earning much, never cracked much more than average salary. Managed to do well with my partner through hard work, luck and sacrifices. Not been easy. Have had difficulties throughout my life with dealing with women in authority, ended up in toxic situations...had depression and anxiety, an eating disorder. Still awkward with parents. My successes are seen as detrimental to sibling, mother would say ‘your sibling will never have as nice a home as you.’...they made different choices, enjoyed life more.

Had put most of this behind me and just tried to ignore comments, limit contact but has come to a head again. Parents decided to give sibling nearly all cash needed to buy a new home, not their first, an upgrade. I was only informed after sale was agreed, ‘in case I objected.’ It isn’t about the cash, I have never asked or been offered any. I think it is foolish, their solicitor commented it wasn’t wise. But it is again the feelings of being unloved, second best. I know they were trying to be fair so sibling could have a nice home (they had a lovely place, this is bigger and flasher) but it is just another example of my mother favouring the ‘easy’ child.

Not sure what comments I expect. It isn’t about the cash, it is the years of belittling, name calling, slapping and leaving to be destroyed at school that has worn me down. I honestly can say I really am not close to either of them. My mother, I understand took out her unhappiness on me, my father, I no longer respect for his deceit.

Hi - just wanted to say - have quickly read this and wanted to say - I hear you and your points are all valid.

I don't wonder at all why you're not close to any of them. Who would be?

clevercatty

re your comment:-
"I'm torn between cutting down visits to parents unless I have to but DB and his family would be hurt - DB hasn't done anything wrong. DB likes things to be 'happy families".

There should be no conflict in your mind here and I would certainly cut down on all visits to your parents. Your mother failed you here too by allowing her need for a man to completely overshadow your wellbeing as her children. She bought two abusive males into your life and has not apologised nor has infact taken any responsibility for her own actions.

Infact I would not visit them at all going forward. You do not owe these people anything let alone a relationship. Your DB indeed likes playing "happy families"; leave him to his denial of how bad things were and still are. You can choose not to have to take part and or keep on playing that game. Let them be so called "hurt", they are mired in denial. Drop the rope that is held out to you here along with all residual hope that these other people will change.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

clevercatty

re your comment:-
"I'm torn between cutting down visits to parents unless I have to but DB and his family would be hurt - DB hasn't done anything wrong. DB likes things to be 'happy families".

There should be no conflict in your mind here and I would certainly cut down on all visits to your parents. Your mother failed you here too by allowing her need for a man to completely overshadow your wellbeing as her children. She bought two abusive males into your life and has not apologised nor has infact taken any responsibility for her own actions.

Infact I would not visit them at all going forward. You do not owe these people anything let alone a relationship. Your DB indeed likes playing "happy families"; leave him to his denial of how bad things were and still are. You can choose not to have to take part and or keep on playing that game. Let them be so called "hurt", they are mired in denial. Drop the rope that is held out to you here along with all residual hope that these other people will change.

AttilaTheMeerkat

Thanks for answering - the thing is - if I cut out all contact I will be seen as the bad person - e.g. starting WW3! DM in a sense was a good mother, we had happy memories - even as a family!

The first abusive male - my DF - she luckily did divorce - but I actually recall at one point when we were adults - can't think why or what - but she said 'I'd have to pay your stepdad money so he could get another place to live', she was actually worried about what he could afford etc and they're not married and she paid the mortgage off and early though he did pay her rent.

She sometimes apologises - it's sort of back and forth - when I got divorced at 35 (no DC) she had long heart to hearts with me - do you think I should give it one last chance for things to change and then cut off contact otherwise?

I know for a fact when DM dies and when stepdad is alive that any contact with him will be minimal, DB can have contact, I don't want it. There's another part - family home is due to be divided into three parts when DM dies (I don't think stepdad will die before her) - they have wills but DM says 'stepdad will do the right thing and give you your share' - I don't believe the latter statement though DB would insist on it - I don't want/need the money especially but I suppose if it was for me it'd be useful. Stepdad when he dies will leave any money he says to me and DB (and DB'd family) - not to his own family, again I'm not bothered. Family heirlooms I have more interest in as they're old and go back a few years.

Stepdad came from a poor Irish family and DM is from a sort of bourgeois family fallen on hard times but DM got left all the family heirlooms, I suppose they mean nothing.

thanks for listening by the way. They make you think you're going mad sometimes.

Ah - the final thing - whenever I've got upset/angry it's been brought back to smack me in the face - 'YOU'VE behaved badly' so therefore if i've behaved badly that's ok.

They don't seem to realise you can learn these things and usually from your parents - e.g. if they scream and shout you're more likely to think that's acceptable.

I don't recall hearing swearing until stepdad joined the scene...

if I cut out all contact I will be seen as the bad person - e.g. starting WW3!
but so what CleverCatty?
these people have their heads up their arses, their opinions aint worth jack sh1t
their judgement of you is part of the overarching mechanism which keeps you in your box where they want you to be, for their convenience

when I got divorced at 35 (no DC) she had long heart to hearts with me
A form of 'grooming' imo, to draw you in and get you to trust her....
when the victim trusts the perpetrator this is when the perpetrator has total power
the more you need and trust her the easier it is for her to crush and wound you

For anyone who thinks they’re going mad when dealing with this or are being cruel when pushing back, you’re not. We have a right as children and adults to be safe. These fuckers will continue their horrible behaviour into old age.

For anyone who’s been following my story of the hell with my narcissist mother in law, the update is:

Counsellor identified her as a coercive narcissist. I’ve been reading up - wow. And wow, that’s her.

My partner got the isolate for 13 days message from track and trace this afternoon. We’re OK with no symptoms.

He phoned the hag to update her. I don’t join phone calls with her anymore as it’s so vile but I had to listen into this one as I knew it would be a classic.

It was.

I’m still overawed at the narcissism.

When can you bring my Xmas cards round? 26th of November? That’s far too late.

What about my laundry? YOU’VE NOT SHOWN ME HOW TO USE MY NEW WASHING MACHINE. You = me. I can’t be arsed to go round to her slum to show her. Leaving it to partner. To partner over last few weeks: don’t worry about me, you’re far too busy.

What will I do for two weeks of my own?

What will I do if I need to go to hospital? Dial 999, witch.

What about my medical appointments? You constantly complain about your medical appointments.

It’s as if this virus is out to get me?

Possibly the best example of her self-centredness ever. That had me crying with laughter.

Nothing like “are you ok?” “Can I do anything?”

She ended the call with “I suppose you won’t ring me tomorrow”.

As soon as we got the message, I cancelled her appointments so she can’t dump the shit on my disabled brother in law whose life has been made misery for years. Nothing’s urgent. It can wait.

We told her that on the phone. Joy.

She, of course, didn’t mention laundry to the b-I-l because it’s not about an overflowing washing basket but about using her laundry as a lever to get at me the neglectful and cruel daughter in law.

But, WHOOP, holiday. People - TWO WHOLE WEEKS.

If any of you need a break from it all...

Does anyone else struggle with just how angry you feel, when dealing with family? A few nights ago I got a message just before bed time and felt so full of rage it took me hours to sleep.

The message was all about how unreasonable I am and DM has checked that with all her friends (names listed) who have confirmed it. I hate the way it affects me.

@TinyTroubleMaker yes, I do. They make us feel like children and then there’s no place to put our anger. I hate feeling like this as I’m not an especially angry person. What you’re describing with your mother is her bullying you. I felt so bullied the other day that I’ve had three consecutive nights of the toxic mother in law invading my dreams. These people are horrible.

Hurt fury rage - then shame & FOG keeps us in the REACTIVE toxic loop.

It’s normal to feel these things - these are our FOO - this is visceral stuff.

All that matters though is that you have self compassion for your feelings (they are real and appropriate) - but choose how you process these and then ATTEND to yourself emotionally and choose what actions / behaviours you will respond to the irritant with.

They are all separate steps.

Feeling rage is listening to your gut - that’s safe and emotionally healthy - but reacting in rage to them as an action or behaviour is not emotionally intelligent.

Find the space to see the difference.

Night time is the worst time. I guess when everything quietens down in the house and we are alone with our thoughts we are at risk of ruminating on the unfairness of our situations. I go through periods of this so you are not alone.

If you have a parent who is likely to contact you in the evening perhaps turn your phone off, I know it's not ideal? But once we have our adrenaline and other stress hormones circulating then its going to be impossible to sleep.

All it takes for me is a stray thought to trigger something and then, wham, I'm all worked up with only myself to hash things out with- a recipe for disaster at bed time.

Would love someones opinion on
"Being out of the loop" so what I mean is.. it's only logical for me to be out of the loop with regards to family news/ stuff happening in my mothers life as I am in the process (slow process) of creating boundaries, and essentially, laying down my terms and conditions (fairly gently). I can accept I am not going to know each and every thing that is happening in my mothers life as I go through this boundary setting process. However, what I am noticing (looking back over the last few months) is my mother/ siblings will mention things in a discussion that I am completely unaware of (Ok, I'm creating distance but I have not moved to mars) they talk to me as if I know, as if I should know and if I react in any way then it's because they didn't want to worry me.

Confused.com

Am I over thinking?

perhaps turn your phone off
Also never answer phone calls, set your phone up so that if they ring it goes straight to answerphone, if they leave a message listen to it and reply by email the next day.

Hello all you lovely people. I pop on here every now and then to remind myself that there are lots of us living with the fall-out from toxic families. I am pretty much NC will my entire 'birth family' and have been for a few years now.

As we approach Christmas, I always get an attack of the guilts and the dilemma of whether to sent a card, which I usually do just because it feels like less of a statement than not sending one. It's ridiculous and hypocritical. Part of me wants to say 'this is the last card I'm sending any of you because I actually don't want to have anything to do with any of you.' But I won't do that.

I might not send any at all. But then again, I might. Stupid, isn't it?

I suppose I shall send one to DM because she's so old who knows how long she'll last. Might be her last Christmas. Part of me wonders if I'll feel any kind of peace when she's gone.

It's me again, on week 2 of distancing from my parents.
I was doing really well and started to respond to my mum the way I wanted to... What a mistake.
She asked me what I want for Christmas, to which I said wasgij puzzles please, but check with dh as I've done some and I know he has got me one for Xmas.
So I send her some links to ones I would like online, I tell her they are also in a shop she regularly uses, I also tell her they are on offer. I thought that was a good amount of detail.
So she goes quiet for a few days, then tonight has texted asking what ones I've done... I mean I've done quite a few. So I said it's probably best she texts dh asking if I've done the one she's looking at as I know he has also got me one for Xmas. So she says "OK, ignore his messages them" so I respond with 'I don't read his messages'.
She then says "can't you have pyjamas instead, they're easier to find".
I mean, I'm massivly pregnant and will be even more so at Christmas. She knows dh has got me pyjamas. What's the point in asking me what I want if you're just going to say "can't you have something else"?! Just a complete lack of respect. And how dare she suggest I read dh's messages anyway?!!
I had the counselling service call me today and book my assessment in for Wednesday so at least I know that journey is starting soon. I need it to

Sorry popping in and interrupting, I apologise I don't use MN much but I enjoyed reading this thread and (if it's okay) wanted to volunteer my experiences for a bit of personal clarity. It's a cliche to say the whole "my abuse wasn't as bad as other peoples" but it really wasn't, I just want to get things off my chest. (I have spoken about this on a few other threads using different usernames so I'm sorry if anyone's read it before).

A bullet point list seems the way to go so;

• My dad was married when he met my mother, he and his former wife went through a big divorce and I think I was a product of "trying to look like a family" for the court battle for my siblings. They got married very quickly too.

• Had a great relationship with my mum when I was very little but my dad always scared me, he used to yell and spank me (which I know is inconsequential but it's now illegal in my country, which I'm very happy about). I remember him yelling a lot and making my siblings cry but none of us ever stepped in for each other as we didn't want to incur the wrath of it directed at us.

-Mum always switched off emotionally and iced me out if I displeased her (particularly during my pre-teen years). The issue came to it's first head when I was about 11 and was sulky over something silly like dessert, and he started screaming about disrespect to my mother - which even as a more grown-up now I don't think was disrespectful to that degree - and I didn't apologise so he threw the kitchen roll he was holding at the table and came and quite forcibly picked me up which made me start crying. He then pushed me down into a chair and held me down for a bit, before angrily leaving the room. My mum didn't respond, I was terrified so I left the house (including writing down what had happened because I thought he might kill me when I came home). Came home to an empty house, when they returned my mum used the words "abuse" (which she latterly denied and said things like "My mum hurt me but I don't call it abuse") and he said things along the lines of it not being his fault because I was a spoiled bitch.

I didn't speak to either of them for a few days and they came into my room one day to "sort it out" which meant him half-assedly apologising and then a whole new tangent about how I would ruin the family's and his life by going to the police (as well as it being my fault because I told someone what was going on in the family which meant I was essentially "ruining his reputation" in the neighbourhood). I forgave because it was the easiest thing to do, and I had no other option.

• Had lots off on-and-off massive arguments where I would find later myself screaming into the pillow or panic-crying. He wasn't always yelling or aggressive but he kept his calm a lot of the time and was cold, and would not stop pushing until I was crying (or telling him all of the details of my life so he could say "aha, that's clearly what you're upset about).

• When I became sexually active he would shame me, and I remember him and my mum essentially kicking my ex boyfriend out when he had missed the last train and would have to wait in the freezing rain for 2+ hours for someone to pick him up. He would yell about who I was seeing at the time, and if I left the house during an argument would insinuate that I was going out to have sex with people.

Around the time when my mum went to her home country for a few weeks, he would say things like "When you behave like this, don't you think your mother will stop loving you?" (I was cripplingly depressed and emotionally shut off a lot of the time, but my behaviour was not worse than any other teen having a difficult experience)

• When I finally moved out and came home there was a day when my mum was slating me for being lazy / spoiled (I have a developmental condition but you wouldn't know it looking at me) saying things like "People with no legs get on trains to go to work" as if to say my (crippling) health condition was no reason for me to take a gap year - another situation which made me leave the house crying, even as an adult.

• When they offered financial support for me going to college when I was 16, it came with the terms and conditions of seeing all the pieces of work I write, and all correspondence with my teachers to prove I was going - they were also speaking down my sibling's ear about me essentially being a scammer and thief so I got a bollocking from that sibling even though I had absolutely 100% intention of going and would never have taken money if I wasn't going to go (and even after I declined their offer, I still fucking went to college!).

• When I sent them an email telling them I couldn't be in contact with them anymore, my mum completely ignored it and my dad fired back an, "Okay, sorry you feel like that." That's the last piece of contact I've had with them, other than them clearly talking about me behind my back because my sibling came along 6months after, asking me why I would go no contact blah blah.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff that happened (as there always is) but phew feels good to let it all out. I'm still hurt by everything that happened in my childhood and adolescence, but can I just say thank you for keeping these threads going and for giving people a space to talk about their experiences

@berrygirlie welcome to The thread😊
after I read your post my impression is your parents are a pair of completely dysfunctional abusive nutcases, just awful, completely awful ☹️
How are you, how are things now?
Hopefully you have escaped from them 🙏

@Pearsapiece as you say she's just using it as another way to disregard you ☹️

@Sicario I think I will feel a sense of peace when they go and I look forward to that peace🦋

Berry, just realised I overlooked the bit about your no contact email🙈
even so, how are you, do you feel free from them?