Concerns about DW and therapist - am I paranoid?

[StonedRoses]

I’ve posted before about my concerns about the Male therapist has been seeing for the last three years. Let’s call him John. He’s a little unorthodox and the process has lead to my DW going nc with her entire family. I’ve really no idea about whether the memories they have unearthed are correct or not. But that’s a side issue to today

One of my concerns has been the frequency of contact. Often 2-3 times a week. Text and email between and often arranged at short notice. There have been emergency they sit sessions, sometimes meeting at a local park or in the car

This week she told me on Friday at 5pm she had a phone call with John at 6. Then she left the house to make the call from the car, for privacy of course. However she then drove off and come back a couple of hours later.
Again yesterday her scheduled session is Thursday. Mid afternoon she text me to say she has another session straight after work

A friend of mine who can be a bit cynical has said to me ‘are you sure there’s nothing else going on’. And it’s got me thinking. I’m sure there isn’t and I hate feeling paranoid. But even so it does feel like current contact is OTT and rather eating into family time.

It took me awhile to find OP but here it is: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4045792-Im-completely-broken-Need-to-escape

This man is also a doctor, he is (or was?) in an abusive relationship with a woman who if I remember rightly was threatening to twist everything around on him.

I thought you might get some comfort from reading about another a man in the same profession as you, in similar circumstances

Which is more likely?

This is either a complex series of abuse scanning decades and hundreds of guilty people none of whom have ever spoken out/been caught out

OR

One extremely manipulative and abusive man destroying your wife's mental health.

These therapists do exist and despite all the professional regulations can carry on manipulating for many years.

This is my experience.

20 years ago when I was in my early 20s I started going to a 12 step support group for eating disorders. It was mostly attended by other young single women.

Gradually over a few months more and more of the group starting going to see 'jane' a local therapist who specialises in eating disorders. (not her real name). Jane was extremely supportive and gave a lot of time to her clients.. Eg she installed an answerphone where clients could ring in morning and evening and leave messages with what they were planning to eat /had eaten to keep them "accountable".

Anyway I went to one session, it seemed OK. Session 2 consisted of her telling me that I had been sexually abused by my father (absolutely not true). I vigorously protested but was told again and again it was true and I had repressed the memory. When I asked her how she could possibly know this she told me it was because I was obese and obesity is ALWAYS an unconscious desire in women to hide their genitals to protect themselves from further abuse. I thought, this woman is as mad as a box of frogs, left immediately, ignored about 8 follow up calls.

2 of my friends from the group got in very deep. One, who was primarily bulimic, was told she had been terribly sexually abused by her father and the bulimia was her trying to vomit up the pain and horror of what had happened. The other was anorexic and an exercise bulimic and she was told she had been terribly sexually abused by her father in childhood and had blocked it out but her anorexia and exercising was her trying to have a prepubescent body to unconsciously protect herself from further abuse.

20 years on, both credit Jane with saving their lives, both see her at least twice a week. Neither have any contact with any of their family or have ever married/had a partner/had children. One of them lives in the same one bedroom flat they had just bought 20 years ago despite inheriting from her Godmother a large house in the West End of London which she then gifted to Jane.

Occasionally I wonder what would have happen to me if I hadn't fled that session.

Of course your wife's story (of having a baby and abandoning him/her) is untrue. She is obviously very vulnerable and has been manipulated by a therapist who is either unscrupulous or deluded. I feel very sorry for her, and your love for and commitment to her come through clearly. However, there is only so much you can do to help her. She may remain convinced of her delusions for the rest of her life. How could you stay with her in the long term in those circumstances?

Well done on taking those first steps for yourself and especially for your son.

@NoMoreMuchin that is absolutely horrifying

NoMoreMuchin that is appalling but absolutely believable. DH had a therapist after seeing some horrific stuff in his job. Some of the BS they came out with was truly shocking! If he had been more vulnerable than he was he could so easily have gone down this route.

@NoMoreMuchin I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you and your friends. It does sound horribly familiar.
One thing I’ve noticed is initially how convincing it all sounds. Right up until this latest disclosure I was still thinking ‘maybe’.
I don’t know if John is malicious or out his depth or if he has a view that abuse is everywhere and he’s trying his best. In the few sessions I had I was getting less keen on how he blamed my parents for ‘abusing’ me. Yes they were stiff upper lip middle class parents who couldn’t show emotion. But I felt uncomfortable with how certain he was that it was abusive

This is horrific reading. Shitheads can appear in any profession can't they? Bent coppers, Harold shipman... if John worked at Argos nicking fridges it would be a crime but not such a horrific impact on other people.

I remember a child protection meeting I went to and realised you have to be a someone or a no-one to get away with abuse. So either the headteacher (untouchable) or the caretaker (unnoticed).

John has done some hard work on your wife hasn't he?

Make sure you make a copy of that letter to keep. The paper trail will be very important if John ever decides you're the problem. I'd also keep a copy if everything somewhere else with a trusted friend or maybe DW sister if a friends not an option. It's heartbreaking what's being done to your DW, but keeping your DS safe is paramount. Keep taking those steps, don't focus on the bigger problems. You work out the next step and you take that step, then the next one and slowly you get there. It's great you've started to do that.

The joke is that my FIL can barely use a computer and he gave up running his own business because of his shocking lack of organisation.
So if he does have the skills to run a multinational paedophile ring involving the highest levels and avoiding detecting for 40yrs - well he’s hiding those skills well

Well done OP

OP, you're a hospital doctor, is there no one in your profession that you know that you could confide in or seek advice from?

Hello OP, I'm not having a go at you, but as a hospital Dr have you/can you not investigate all possible avenues to get your wife's MH assessed? Also, have you checked what happens when someone presents at A&E in a mental health crisis? Or an ambulance is called? You describe a real degradation in your wife's MH, and it just reads as if the situation is heading that way. Yet, you haven't mentioned anything beyond going to the GP (and having initially given up after being told you can't intervene).
You also described the situation as a "marriage crisis". As PPs have pointed out, this is a situation which could turn in an instant and become very dangerous for all involved.
I'm not trying to add to your burdens, but as a professional I would have thought you would have more agency (and certainly ways to acquire knowledge).
Maybe you've explored all avenues to help your wife medically, but it doesn't come across in your recent posts.

Apologies, you said "marital crisis"

Hi @StonedRoses have you had a look at the British false memory society website? I’ve only quickly read through the thread so apologies if they’ve already been suggested, they may be able to offer you some help.

Wow this is bonkers @StonedRoses. My father was abused and definitely has repressed elements of it that only came out in later life via therapy but by elements I mean places and times of year/day/seasons rather than whole, blank years worth of information (much less a baby he gave birth to!) Whilst it’s believable that a victim of abuse would repress some memories there’s levels seem far from likely. Good luck.

'John' sounds like a sex obsessed loon.

I haven’t read everything but this sounds terrible. Can you not follow her to see what she’s doing?

@MidnightColours - I’m definitely not a psychiatrist(!) but knowing a little about MH services (and the pressure they’re under) is why I’m so sceptical I can do anything. Believe me I’ve tried to find out.
It’s hard to get this across but if you met her you’d have no idea there was anything going on. She is outwardly doing fine. A good, caring mum, a busy demanding job, volunteering on the PTA etc. Certainly wouldn’t come across as someone who was a danger to themselves or others. So there’s little chance that any MH team would get involved unless she asked for help. If an ambulance or crisis team were called they’d laugh it off and say there was nothing to do

This is the dichotomy that I can’t get my head round. If it were true then surely this level of abuse would have a significant impact on you functioning normally day to day. But if it wasn’t true how could you believe this and carry on as normal?

I absolutely feel for you. I have no experience of this and no further words of advice. I agree with so many posts that you should document your concerns to protect yourself.

One way to look at this is if John wasn't on the scene and your DW began speaking as she has, would you be more concerned by her MH? Imo you not only need to protect yourself but your DS and if that means leaving then you must. If things change you can get back together but these accusations are so serious you need to take action

You describe her as fully functioning to the outside world with job etc - what does she do or not do in your home that’s not functional - does she get distressed, distracted, withdraw ? Does she express rage, disgust, hurt and anger?

John you should start looking at protecting your self and your son. You don’t know if this therapist is going to start planting false memories about either you or your son. It isn’t too much of a stretch for her to start thinking you have sexually abused her too and that your involved in it to. That your son was conceived through sexual abuse also, can you imagine the impact this would have on him?

I know you said your vows but that doesn’t mean your whole family has to be thrown under the bus because some one is clearly ill.

For me now, this has crossed the line in to clear delusions and you keeping it a secret is helping. She needs help. Speak to her family and take your son.

You know she is lying/delusional about the earlier child. Don’t allow yourself or your son to be dragged in this mess.

Your recent post is exactly why you need to start a paper trail to her GP with detail of what has happened and your opinion of it. You need to protect yourself from her accusing you of abuse. The human brain is capable of all sorts of weirdness.

What would happen if you sat and had a calm chat with her about the one bit you know to be BS?

My aunt has disassociate disorders due to severe sexual abuse as a child. She doesn't remember large swathes of time and she has severe anxiety. But she doesn't completely "forget" all of it.

What's going on with your wife sounds like all that nonsense that happened in the US in the 80's with the charlatan "therapists" convincing everyone they were victims of Satanic Ritual abuse. Absolute bullshit.

Get yourself and your son away from her.

The thing is OP, all you are doing here is putting up barriers to acting and making assumptions that the avenues proposed to you will be fruitless. As an outsider it seems you are stuck and won't change the status quo as at the moment, perhaps it isn't bad enough or scary enough for you to "risk it".

Op I remember your previous threads. I'm sorry things have got worse.

I suspect that "John" is a survivor of sexual abuse by his own parents and therefore sees abuse in every family, even when denied by the person he's actually counselling (as in your case when he accused your parents of neglect.)

The problem is, people in abusive relationships DO frequently deny that it's abusive, because that thought is too scary. So it can be tempting, if you like, for therapists to blame every negative emotion and difficulty on an abusive past. It can also be tempting for the person in therapy to believe this - because if I believe that all my problems are a result of my dad sexually assaulting me, I can just cut him out, deal with the abuse, and everything else will be okay.

My dad sexually abused me for years. I struggled to repress the memories. There were some things I did successfully forget until they popped up in counselling. I have no problem with that concept. There are doubtless hundreds of photos of me as a child looking happy. Abuse victims do not spend all day every day cutting ourselves and crying. We are allowed moments of happiness, and family ocassions such as parties can actually be a respite because you know your abuser won't be able to assault you for at least the next few hours. So I wouldn't put stock in that one way or the other. (Unless you mean she is claiming that there would have been obvious visible injuries to areas not covered by clothing? Sorry its not clear from your posts.)

But as you've said, the problem is with things that demonstrably did not happen. Then it becomes a belief in some huge conspiracy. Certainly there have been cover-up operations, strings pulled, witnesses discredited, in many cases. Just look at the Catholic Church. Or Jeffery Epstein and his very convenient suicide. So it's easy to understand how your wife could fall into this trap. And then if you speak out and say "this is bollocks" it's very easy for "John" to tell her that you are part of the cover up. That "they" have got to you.

And from there it's a short step to her accusing you of abuse of her and/or your son.

I'm wondering if there are organisations for families of people who've become believers in things like Lizard People, 5g causes Covid, Covid doesn't exist, etc? If they could offer advice on leaving safely and protecting yourself and your son. STAY AWAY from anything regarding false memory syndrome (FMS) because IME these groups are often organised by actual abusers, with obvious motivations.

The situation cannot continue and I'm glad you intend to get legal advice.