Long sorry... Just in shock - need the collective expertise of Mumsnet- DH and hook up site

[Tempnamelady]

Before I hark back to previous posts and advice I’ve been given on here, I really need some advice/info from those more IT technically proficient than me before I jump to conclusions. More of the rest later.
DH out cycling earlier, left his phone, no biggie usually does, he also commented earlier that he was going out and leaving it as it didn’t have much charge.
He isn’t glued to his phone , I know the unlock code. I’ve just been getting a bit of a vibe off him lately , things haven’t been great and you’ve all offered your take on it which was appreciated. Anyway.. I swiped Left on his phone and a calendar entry came up for today it said ‘Sex hook up 3.6 miles from your location and a time this afternoon’ After nearly dropping the phone in shock I tried to open it and it said it couldn’t open as the Calendar app had been deleted. As I said I’m not great with tech but thinking about it , I reinstalled the calendar app in his phone ( I have since deleted it again and he himself isn’t a great tech person so even if you could tell he wouldn’t notice). Anyway a load of notifications/times ( only in last few days) came up ,they were from Thursday to today . Basically local women looking for sex hook ups some of it was pretty graphic with locations and times . There’s a website mentioned called ( cringe) banglocals.com and Something called Https:anamuel-careslie.com which seems to be some sort of url link to porn hook up websites.

So nothing before Thurs that I could see and nothing after today.

Right this is where I need your advice and expertise, at the moment I’m pretty shaky and churning but trying to stay calm as DS and his girlfriend are here, DH at the pub. Does this mean he has signed up to a hook up site? Do you think he has deleted his calendar deliberately knowing I do see his phone on occasion? I am sure he wouldn’t know that the entries would still come up on swipe even if he deleted his calendar app, he’s not that tech savvy. I can’t understand why you would delete your calendar app, it’s kind of standard isn’t it? I did use to use mine a bit though I rely on Alexa for reminders these days. He wouldn’t use a calendar app for anything like appointments etc.

Can this thing ever just accidentally end up on your phone, I’m guessing not but I don’t want to look like a complete tit if they can. I am trying to keep my powder dry and will be able to get his phone again tomorrow as no doubt he will be out on his bike at some point. If it’s legit then he’s fucking history, we’ve had some pretty big issues of late and things aren’t great anyway but if he was even contemplating using a site to meet women then I’m gone. I will be fine , I am not at all dependent on him, I have a successful career, a lovely adult DS, tons of friends and money in the bank.

But before I get ahead of myself , if anyone can offer any advice on whether this means he has signed up and anything else I can do to get proof if he is on site/s then I’d be really really grateful.

I think I need a drink.

@sortingitout thank you for that. It’s actually made me cry . I’m so unhappy today there’s a horrible atmosphere when we are in the house together , I feel sick , guilty and terrified of what’s to come. Im really wavering I’m trying to resolve all of it but I feel like I’m just kicking it down the road .

I would say a lot of people probably don’t know about his MH as he is all cheery with his friends in the pub.

I would say a lot of people probably don’t know about his MH as he is all cheery with his friends in the pub.

Oh dear, you still have your head on wrong. Try to stop thinking of him as a poor troubled man.

I would say a lot of people probably don’t know he is cruel to his wife as he is all cheery with his friends in the pub.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. What sort of an example did your own parents show you.

He is not a poor troubled man, he is abusive and has trained you well into serving his interests along with thinking he is really a poor troubled man.

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?.

THE MENTALLY ILL OR ADDICTED ABUSER

This last category is not actually separate from the others; an abusive man of any of the aforementioned styles can also have psychiatric or substance-abuse problems, although the majority do not. Even when mental illness or addiction is a factor, it is not the cause of a man's abuse of his partner, but it can contribute to the severity of his problem and his resistance to change. When these additional problems are present, it is important to be aware of the following points:

1. Certain mental illnesses can increase the chance that an abuser will be dangerous and use physical violence. These include paranoia, severe depression, delusions or hallucinations (psychosis), obsessive-compulsive disorder, and antisocial personality disorder known as psychopathy or sociopathy). These psychiatric conditions also make it next to impossible for an abuser to change, at least until the mental illness has been brought under control through therapy and/or medication, which can take years. Even if the mental illness is properly treated, his abusiveness won't necessarily change.

1. An abuser's reactions to going on or off medication are unpredictable. A woman should take extra precautions for her safety at such a time. Abusers tend to go off medication before long—I have had few clients who were consistent and responsible about taking their meds in the long term. They don't like the side effects, and they are too selfish to care about the implications of the mental illness for their partners or children.

1. The potential danger of a mentally ill abuser has to be assessed by looking at the severity of his psychiatric symptoms in combination with the severity of his abuse characteristics. Looking at his psychiatric symptoms alone can lead to underestimating how dangerous he is.

1. Antisocial personality disorder is present in only a small percentage of abusers but can be important. Those who suffer from this condition lack a conscience and thus are repeatedly involved in behaviors that are harmful to others. Some signs of this condition include: (a) He started getting into illegal behavior when he was still a teenager; (b) his dishonest or aggressive behavior involves situations unrelated to his partner, rather than being restricted to her; (c) he periodically gets into trouble at workplaces or in other contexts for stealing, threatening, or refusing to follow instructions and is likely to have a considerable criminal record by about age thirty, though the offenses may be largely minor ones; (d) he is severely and chronically irresponsible in a way that disrupts the lives of others or creates danger; and (e) he tends to cheat on women a lot, turn them against each other, and maintain shallow relationships with them. The psychopath's physical violence is not necessarily severe, contrary to the popular image, but he may be very dangerous nonetheless. Antisocial personality disorder is very difficult to change through therapy, and there is no effective medication for treating it. It is highly compatible with abusiveness toward women.

1. Those who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder have a highly distorted self-image. They are unable to accept that they might have faults and therefore are unable to imagine how other people perceive them. This condition is highly compatible with abusiveness, though it is present in only a small percentage of abusive men. Clues to the presence of this disorder include: (a) Your partner's self-centeredness is severe, and it carries over into situations that don't involve you; (b) he seems to relate everything back to himself; and (c) he is outraged whenever anyone criticizes him and is incapable of considering that he could ever be anything other than kind and generous. This disorder is highly resistant to therapy and is not treatable with medication. The abuser with this disorder is not able to change substantially through an abuser program either, although he sometimes makes some minor improvements.

1. Many abusers who are not mentally ill want women to think that they are, in order to avoid responsibility for their attitudes and behavior.

Substance abuse, like mental illness, does not cause partner abuse but can increase the risk of violence. Like the mentally ill abuser, the addicted abuser doesn't change unless he deals with his addiction, and even that is only the first step. Chapter 8 examines the role that substances play in partner abuse.

The attitudes driving the mentally ill or addicted batterer are the same as those of other abusers and will likely follow the pattern of one of the nine styles described above. In addition, the following attitudes tend to be present:

• I am not responsible for my actions because of my psychological or substance problems.

• If you challenge me about my abusiveness, you are being mean to me, considering these other problems I have. It also shows that you don't understand my other problems.

• I'm not abusive, I'm just———(alcoholic, drug addicted, manic-depressive, an adult child of alcoholics, or whatever his condition may be).

• If you challenge me, it will trigger my addiction or mental illness, and you'll be responsible for what I do.

From "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft, copied and pasted from www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles

Time to put yourself first OP

@Tempnamelady
My husband did the same, his mental health and moods dictated the whole household.
Its emotional abuse and they do it so you stop pulling them up on their behaviour and they get their own way because you will always back down.

Not many people knew he had mental health issues as he also put on a front.

To be honest couples who split arent even gossip worthy because it happens all the time and no one cares about the reasons.

You dont even have to have a reason to end your marriage, you can leave at any time if you are unhappy.

He is emotionally blackmailing you into staying with him. What kind of marriage is that?

I was one of the first to divorce in my family and was ashamed but no one even cares.

I'm wondering why you are so reluctant to really see this, or to leave. Rather than solving the unsolvable problem (him) why not look at the solvable ones (you). Try to open up your life a little more, find a way to get finances/work on track. Maybe see a therapist. And see a solicitor.

When all that is in place you might be able to face this feeling better. Because you have had years and years of this, and tellingly have name changed to post this because (I guess) you don't want people linking you with your other threads which detail the many other ways he's a total bastard.

Who are you protecting? Your children already know snd are old enough. But what about you? Do you want to be herd when you are 70? Or 80 being his carer?

Good that you have a caravan too. He can live in it.

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl work and finance fine I have a well paid career and could probably buy a house more or less outright , it won’t be the one I’ve got in the area I live but that’s ok. My issues are guilt about how he will cope and breaking up my DS family unit , I know he’s 21 but still... . For someone who asked up thread , my mum died an alcoholic at 64 and I never lived with her from being 6. My step mum is amazing and I adore her but my dad has a history of MH issues that she has had to put up with and has.. I know ....

Oh and if he's the kind of loser that sponges off you get a very very good solicitor right now. From now on nothing you do must be driven by guilt.

He ruined your Christmas. Do you want another one of those this year?

I am still angry that my parents broke up after I grew up and left. They stayed together for the sake of the children you see. Liars. They had their own highly dysfunctional reasons for staying together in misery. Saying they had to live in misery in a house of vile atmosphere and constant walking on egg shells because .... that is better than children coming from a "broken home". Just tosh. The home was massively broken. They wanted to hide it from others though, people knowing the home was broken was their real issue. All about the optics.

Do not blame your son for your choice to take abuse.

He should not be your human shield.

Especially not at 21. That's a joke.

Or let me put it another way. You staying with him is enabling him. You are actually harming him and preventing him from developing as a person and living a full life. Relying on you as someone to blame let's him off the hook.

True kindness would be to let him go and be happy elsewhere. He's not happy with you and doesn't love you. You are convenient. But you do not enhance his life, in his head.

Time to walk away OP.
Cut your losses. It's great that your son is an adult and you have financial independence.

My daughter was 15 when i split from her dad (i planned to leave when she was 18) and she loves having 2 homes/2 bedrooms and where there is no atmosphere.
She passed her GCSEs and is planning to go to Uni.

My son/my ex's step son was 21 when we split, he was at Uni and his step dad had been in his life since he was 2.
He is pleased i found the courage to end my marriage because he knew how shit things had been and that i deserved more.

At no point have my kids told me i shouldnt have left or that I've ruined their lives.

Your son is 21 but even if he was younger he will be fine, people are resilient, he probably finds living with his dad tougher than you realise.

Who cares what he tells his friends. That is up to him and should not be used to stop you leaving, same with suicide, awful behaviour.

You have supported your husbands issues before, to protect his MH you do not want him to use porn. He cant agree to that so it is time to split. It is not your fault. You deserve to be happy too.

Your son will be fine, let go of the mum guilt (difficult i know).

Ok so we opened up a dialogue ( via what’s app but a start ) where j shared my thoughts and feelings and was going quite well Until I refused to accept the point that some of this was down to me in that I caused an element of it which I refuted . He shut down the discussion saying it wasn’t helping him. I made it clear that wasn’t helpful this was my response ‘Shutting me down is not helpful but classic behaviour of someone not taking ownership .you don’t want to resolve things and so I can’t help you . The incidents are just the outcome’

I really think I’ve pissed him off by not accepting at least part of the blame as I have done in the past , but I don’t think that’s the right thing to do.

Having been the child used as a sounding board by a selfish suicidal parent, I really feel for your son. For that alone I would leave your dh. He's using his mental health as an excuse - fuck that. You were right - you are in no way to blame for any of this. Imagine how happy and free you will feel and be away from this shit show op.

Not easy to walk out on 23 years though and I am not made of stone and do care for him even if the love has been stretched thin by all of this . And it’s not bad all the time . But then I can see that I am conditioned to managing it to the extent that I don’t know I am doing it.

The fallacy of lost years in full flow here. You DS doesn't need his parents together.

My DDad was abusive to my DSM and I married an abusive wanker. Staying with you H is actually harming your DS because you are not giving him a chance to see what a healthy relationship actually looks like. So no more excuses just leave, please.

Call the estate agent, get all the financials together while your DH is away over the next few days and book an appointment with some SHL as advised by anyone you know who is well divorced.

You will feel much less scared of it all when you know where you stand. Take back the power. You are really letting him do what he's always done - make it your fault.

This feels like a running commentary but he’s just come in crying and asking me to give it one last chance .

That's because you haven't caved yet.
He's tried sulking, tried blaming you, tried the MH /Suicide tack, tried to manipulate you by dragging your son into his woes. Now comes the begging. And possibly after that, anger. So hold firm.

Nothing he's said has given you any reason for a last chance. He won't take ownership for his own actions. It's not THIS incident, this is just the cherry on the top of how he treats you.

@Drinkingallthewine Is right. Stand firm one day more and you'll see the angry side back again.
He doesn't want to lose his comfy life. Not you. He already has no time or respect for you.
Stand firm and get your freedom. Get your life back from this super manipulator.

Jesus he's so manipulative, trying every trick in the bloody book to get you to back down and I'm sorry to say I think you will because that's sadly what you're conditioned to do.
Please think of yourself for once