New BF "all lives matter" Me sensitive?

[sensitiveme]

I'm not sure if I'm being overly sensitive here so I'd really appreciate some other perspectives on this.

Was chatting to my new BF last night and I made a comment about one of the "funny" stories he was telling me. The story was totally unrelated to race/racism but I found it a bit mean spirited and said so and then apologised for getting serious about it.

He said well at least you're not one of those shouting about how black lives matter - to which I said well, I am because they do and he said "ugh yeah but ALL lives matter"

We ended up kind of arguing about it because his points were:

1. All lives matter why did they (they?) have to do a huge protest just for POC - I agree all lives are intrinsically valuable, my counter was that obviously systematic racism is a huge problem over there and people are trying to put the focus on how many POC are killed (sometimes for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time) and that discrimination and racism are still rife and they are trying to effect a change in their country.

2. George floyd was a criminal who had been nicked and was going to jail anyway - so apparently death by choking/suffocation was an appropriate punishment for his crime? A white person sworn to protect and serve and in a position of power and authority knelt on his neck for like 9 minutes while he tried to tell them he couldn't breathe until he died!

3. Black people kill more black people than any other group - I'm assuming he was talking about gang warfare but couldn't draw him further on that point. I also pointed out that it is not comparable to racism in the police force which causes lots of POC to lose their lives for either committing small crimes that a white person would never have a gun drawn on them for and sometimes just for being a POC in the wrong place and time faced with racist police officers.

4. he referenced something about how people in Hong Kong have been treating each other recently and said and "that's without there being a racist element to it" - I have no idea what he was referencing but pointed out that you can't compare a situation that has no racist element to one that is entirely grounded in racism because obviously racism is the defining factor!

5. why did they need to protest it at that moment in time? There's a pandemic on and they should have waited till that had blown over first - by the time CV19 has blown over the public focus would have moved on and frankly people are furious that shit like this is still going on.

6. there are other ways to protest rather than by gathering in groups during a pandemic - I agree that there are a lot of ways to protest something but also appreciate the power of a good peaceful march by a massive amount of people who want to make a change. I'm pretty sure they didn't just take to the streets anyway. Also I'm not sure if the US had even been put under lock down measures at that point?

7. Why did there need to be protests here in the UK about BLM? - racism maybe isn't on the same level here as in the US but it still exists here, still affects people and those who protested here were showing solidarity with the protesters over there and also standing up against the racism they may have experienced themselves.

He was getting quite stressed out as the discussion/argument progressed and every time I countered one of his points he moved on to the next one without taking any time to think about what I had said and kept trying to skip passed his point 5 when I asked him how long they should have waited before protesting, and on to point 6.

He finally said we should just agree to disagree and finished by repeating "all lives matter"

The whole night has left me feeling a pretty uncomfortable, wondering if he is a closet racist and thinking there may be more "differences of opinion" like this under the surface. What does he think of women's issues my brain kept throwing at me?

I think I want to tell him that it made me uncomfortable and that maybe we aren't so well matched as we had first thought but I don't want to just come out with "you sound like a racist" because I know he doesn't think he is and obviously that's quite an aggressive statement to make to someone and is bound to cause an argument/bad feeling.

Am I being overly sensitive or is this a bit bigoted/racist? How would you word your discomfort over this without outright calling someone racist?

Your new BF would be my EX bf!!!

Honestly the fact that he was so uneducated would really piss me right off.

He is racists to point out black on black crime... is that his way of point scoring?!

FFS OP surely pick someone with a bit more common sense.

@TheGinGenie

I wouldn't continue to date someone who said these things. It's your decision but you're not being too sensitive.

I agree with this.

You can break up with someone for any reason - there isn't an international tribunal of relationships that will review your decision. You aren't condemning the person or pillorying them in public. You are simply saying "sorry, sure you are nice person but I can't live with this particular thing"

This would be a good enough reason for me. I couldn't imagine a long-term relationship with someone who thought like this so kinder to both of us to end it and move on. But then imo what he said is racist. I live in the US - in a nice liberal part - and generally people who say All Lives Matter are saying something very specific.

And the "defund the police" thing. People do not mean have no police force. They mean instead of funding tax dollars (often paid for disproportionally by black tax payers) into the current model of policing, maybe money should be spent instead on mental health outreach and emergency services or community inclusion initiatives or jobs for youth or more positive things than buying armories for the police force. I am a white woman in the US and I support this completely - I think the nice community in which I live might be a lot nicer if there was even more money spent on people living in poverty or in difficult circumstances and a little less on state of the art weaponry for the police. And you might also want to take a look into the police unions and the contracts they have negotiated to negate any serious oversight of the so-called rare bad cops.

@dowahdiddy

I suspect if they did it would still be more rigorous than wherever you're getting your bollocks from.

This is the problem these days. So much disinformation is cast out that Herbert's like this one believe all the crap the right wing press and conspiracy nutjob's want and they lap it up completely unquestioningly.

[quote simone1863]@dowahdiddy

I suspect if they did it would still be more rigorous than wherever you're getting your bollocks from.

This is the problem these days. So much disinformation is cast out that Herbert's like this one believe all the crap the right wing press and conspiracy nutjob's want and they lap it up completely unquestioningly.[/quote]
There's nothing like misplaced misandry.

Would you like my balls deep fried like your chicken or on a plate?

Issues? and there was me thinking your concern about Ad homs was entirely genuine.

Maybe they mean defund the police and divert it to other services (they do mean that) because countless studies have shown spending in youth services & education etc. has a maissively greater effect?

But that wont happen while with have our press instructing simpletons of your ilk with aliterative arse gravy like Boris Demands Bonus British Bobbys on Beat for no Extra Bob

@user1471565182

What on earth are you waffling about?

Get a grip, ffs!

Ha, calling something "a load of bollocks" misandry is a bit of a stretch. But if you prefer, perhaps we should call it a load of old... no, that's ageist... a bundle of tripe? What's wrong with entrails anyway? Is garbage going to offend anyone? Bottom line is, it's a distraction, and a dishonest one at that.

OK, where were we: OP, yes, your now-ex is either a racist arsehole or an unthinking twit you would have had to spend your life trying to educate. Lucky reveal and well-judged swerve.

@pallisers, good post and I agree. It’s not a question of whether certain views ‘should’ be tolerated or challenged. Plenty of people could easily be in a relationship with someone holding your boyfriend’s views, but to me they’d be a strong indication of incompatibility. It’s where your own red lines are.

I'm with the boyfriend - op sounds terribly confused.

I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone like that.
I bet he’s a daily wail reader.

So am I Nandakanda, but I had a boyfriend who was oh so careful to have the most correct, virtue signalling views possible. He was really beyond reproach in terms of his views, and when unsure of the most correct view to have, he would carefully not hold a view at all. His behaviourwas something entirely different altogether, he could be a horrible person who treated those around him terribly, but saying the right thing should never be equated with doing the right thing. Some people use viewpoints to help create the mask that they wish to present to the outside world.

@JKRisaqueen
“@Temp123999 you come across as judgemental and possibly stupid”
Because I don’t like arrogance and racism I’m stupid?

pallisers sums it up very well - most of the BLM movement do not want a world with no police whatsoever, they just want a better police force, who are properly held accountable when they do wrong, coupled with better services on the ground to bring about prevention of crime, which is always better than cure. That shouldn't be controversial at all.

@TwinkleInYourEye

Sorry op, I think he sounds racist and so do you. You don't have to worry about how you phrase your uncomfortableness...you can just end it and don't have to appease him by giving him a more gentle explanation. I think this is a racist attitude and as you do too, you're entitled to end it with whatever words you choose.

I'm horrified you think i sound racist! Please will you tell me what I've said that led you to think that because I really am not and would hate to be thought of as a racist.

To the PP who said ffs choose someone with common sense next time - he wasn't wearing a big red badge saying "Racist" and until that night he had come across as a very pleasant, common sensical man. I don't know what else I was supposed to do other than become a mind reader, any suggestions?

I don't think the previous poster was saying you were racist, they were saying that you think your now-ex is racist.

Oh! Well thank goodness for that Myotherusernamewastakenagain, just re-read the post and yes that's how it appears

@Myotherusernamewastakenagain

I don't think the previous poster was saying you were racist, they were saying that you think your now-ex is racist.

I think this too although their post was confusingly expressed and I had to read it a couple of times.

For all my questions, watching this video really moved me - particularly the end. I urge you to watch it OP.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=wv0uyiUz-lU

Try saying to him, 'imagine you told me your dad had just died. If I said to you, "but all dads die!", that would be denying the importance of YOUR dad, and pretty bloody unsympathetic.

It's the same with BLM.

This is good: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/amp/53149076

He does sound as if has at least implicitly racist views. Get him to try this test: implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/Study?tid=-1

But it sounds as if he's not very good at considering that he might be wrong, and articulating his views? Only you can decide if this is a deal breaker.

You could get a ierson who says the most correct things on all of this, who might actually in practice be quite racist. Whereas in practice, your boyfriend might not be racist at all, albeit he might be unable to formulate it in the correct acceptable words.

This, all day long.

Without debating the racism aspect, he sounds dim and uneducated.

In addition, he seems happy to ignore your feelings and points of view during a discussion.

Either of these traits, would be a deal breaker for me; let alone both.

I think for the not so bright people out there, maybe it would help them to think of it as BLM too. Bit fed up of the racists who chirp out that all lives matter - missing the point that it's about equal rights and respect, not anyone being supreme.
Not sure POC is really a great description either ( had to think what it ment for a moment) tbh, might be why you got accused of being a tad racist too.

Not sure POC is really a great description either ( had to think what it ment for a momenthmm) tbh, might be why you got accused of being a tad racist too.

Herein lies the problem. If you can be considered to be a bit racist for using a term like 'person of colour' which, as far as I'm aware, up until recently was considered a perfectly acceptable term to use then no wonder some people tie themselves up in knots. I don't know if the OPs ex is racist or not, but he is allowed to have an opinion on current affairs.