New BF "all lives matter" Me sensitive?

[sensitiveme]

I'm not sure if I'm being overly sensitive here so I'd really appreciate some other perspectives on this.

Was chatting to my new BF last night and I made a comment about one of the "funny" stories he was telling me. The story was totally unrelated to race/racism but I found it a bit mean spirited and said so and then apologised for getting serious about it.

He said well at least you're not one of those shouting about how black lives matter - to which I said well, I am because they do and he said "ugh yeah but ALL lives matter"

We ended up kind of arguing about it because his points were:

1. All lives matter why did they (they?) have to do a huge protest just for POC - I agree all lives are intrinsically valuable, my counter was that obviously systematic racism is a huge problem over there and people are trying to put the focus on how many POC are killed (sometimes for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time) and that discrimination and racism are still rife and they are trying to effect a change in their country.

2. George floyd was a criminal who had been nicked and was going to jail anyway - so apparently death by choking/suffocation was an appropriate punishment for his crime? A white person sworn to protect and serve and in a position of power and authority knelt on his neck for like 9 minutes while he tried to tell them he couldn't breathe until he died!

3. Black people kill more black people than any other group - I'm assuming he was talking about gang warfare but couldn't draw him further on that point. I also pointed out that it is not comparable to racism in the police force which causes lots of POC to lose their lives for either committing small crimes that a white person would never have a gun drawn on them for and sometimes just for being a POC in the wrong place and time faced with racist police officers.

4. he referenced something about how people in Hong Kong have been treating each other recently and said and "that's without there being a racist element to it" - I have no idea what he was referencing but pointed out that you can't compare a situation that has no racist element to one that is entirely grounded in racism because obviously racism is the defining factor!

5. why did they need to protest it at that moment in time? There's a pandemic on and they should have waited till that had blown over first - by the time CV19 has blown over the public focus would have moved on and frankly people are furious that shit like this is still going on.

6. there are other ways to protest rather than by gathering in groups during a pandemic - I agree that there are a lot of ways to protest something but also appreciate the power of a good peaceful march by a massive amount of people who want to make a change. I'm pretty sure they didn't just take to the streets anyway. Also I'm not sure if the US had even been put under lock down measures at that point?

7. Why did there need to be protests here in the UK about BLM? - racism maybe isn't on the same level here as in the US but it still exists here, still affects people and those who protested here were showing solidarity with the protesters over there and also standing up against the racism they may have experienced themselves.

He was getting quite stressed out as the discussion/argument progressed and every time I countered one of his points he moved on to the next one without taking any time to think about what I had said and kept trying to skip passed his point 5 when I asked him how long they should have waited before protesting, and on to point 6.

He finally said we should just agree to disagree and finished by repeating "all lives matter"

The whole night has left me feeling a pretty uncomfortable, wondering if he is a closet racist and thinking there may be more "differences of opinion" like this under the surface. What does he think of women's issues my brain kept throwing at me?

I think I want to tell him that it made me uncomfortable and that maybe we aren't so well matched as we had first thought but I don't want to just come out with "you sound like a racist" because I know he doesn't think he is and obviously that's quite an aggressive statement to make to someone and is bound to cause an argument/bad feeling.

Am I being overly sensitive or is this a bit bigoted/racist? How would you word your discomfort over this without outright calling someone racist?

He sounds as though he finds it hard/ refuses to see things from other perspectives. A lot of WP hear "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE" When BLM is said. Much like when women talk about finding it scary to go jogging at night for fear of being raped we'll get a "YEAH WELL I'M SCARED OF BEING BEAT UP" or "YEAH WELL TRY BEING ACCOSTED BY PROSTITUTES" or "YEAH WELL DON'T WEAR TIGHT CLOTHES THEN!" because they just hear "I HATE MEN" when we say "I'm scared I'll get raped" etc. Just quite reactive, barky and not very thoughtful. Obviously all lives matter. Obviously bad things happen to men too. Obviously white people and men get hurt and bullied and deal with struggles and fear and obviously the cause of that may even be a black person or a woman. But that's not what it's about and he either doesn't care, doesn't want to or doesn't have the capacity too.

Look up Democracy Alliance, see the members and see who they're funding.

Look up Democracy Alliance, see the members and see who they're funding.

OK, I did that, now tell me which of those organisations they support are bad and why?

(A word of warning: any explanation starting from the assumption that if it's got "liberal" in it it's dedicated to overthrowing civilization as we know it will be scornfully dismissed. Liberal is actually a nice thing to be. I can't get my head around how it turned into a term of abuse.)

Urgh when someone spouts "all lives matter" it's just like men who decided to campaign for "mens rights"

OK, I did that, now tell me which of those organisations they support are bad and why?

The premise I'm coming from is that Soros is funding BLM as part of a political agenda, to make Trump look bad. Remember, it's election year in the US. The reason I do not like BLM is the violence and see no evil attitude. I don't disagree with their message, though, as I've already stated. I can't comment on the other organisations Democracy Alliance is funding.

I don't think you're being insensitive. I, personally, couldn't be with someone who doesn't align with my beliefs either which is how I ended up with a Tory-hating metalhead. It's good that you found out now instead of years down the line.

The premise I'm coming from is that Soros is funding BLM as part of a political agenda, to make Trump look bad.

Which he is 100% entitled to do. As are you and I. Mind you, Trump doesn't need a lot of help to be made to look bad. Remember, this is the guy who encouraged people in North Carolina to vote twice - which is a felony.

The reason I do not like BLM is the violence and see no evil attitude.

Research shows 93% of protests have been peaceful. Remind me, who was it that brought a rifle to a protest?

My stance is that I cannot support violence in any shape or form. For the record, I'm not aligned with any political side. Have a watch of this (it's only 1 min). I won't spoil it, but you could say I'm like the punchline.

The problem with that stance is that you can then not support any cause or movement anywhere at all - because all movements have outliers whose behaviour is questionable. And that means you spend your life sitting on the fence, doing nothing. Remember: for evil to flourish, it requires only good men to do nothing (Simon Wiesenthal).

Your stance means you will do nothing.

Being nonviolent doesn't equate to sitting on the fence. I've had a violent past, both receiving and giving. I've been on remand for GBH. One thing that helped change my ways was something my Nan told me. My Great Grandfather was in the Irish Guards (you know, the guards at Buckingham Palace) from 1911-1919. Being a professional soldier at the outbreak of war meant he was first into battle. Thankfully he got taken prisoner of war.

My Nan told me something my Great Grandfather would often say,
"Don't hurt anyone, don't even hurt a fly."
That resonated with me. A man who had seen the horrors of war and who had probably killed had seen the futility of war and violence. I live accordingly and am at peace within myself instead of filled with rage as I used to be. I don't hurt flies.

If you were to say if I'm in the Martin Luther King or Malcolm X camp I would say I'm with King. The nonvioelnt approach. Nevertheless, my stance here as seen me being called a racist, antisemite and nazi. Guffaw!

Thing is, the vast majority of people involved in the BLM movement are non-violent. They have been the victims of violence. And yet you denounce the movement as a whole and seem incapable of seeing it as anything other than a monolithic entity which as condones violence. That isn't logical and doesn't reflect what is happening on the ground.

Sorry op, I think he sounds racist and so do you. You don't have to worry about how you phrase your uncomfortableness...you can just end it and don't have to appease him by giving him a more gentle explanation. I think this is a racist attitude and as you do too, you're entitled to end it with whatever words you choose.

Thick cunt bingo:

ALM
Soros
(Cultural) Marxism

Have we had postmodernism yet?

Would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.

People who say all lives matter tend to not give a shit about many lives.

You arnt a racist because you got done for GBH and your grandad was in the war or something?

SHould probably stop spouting racist theories then.

Thing is, the vast majority of people involved in the BLM movement are non-violent. They have been the victims of violence. And yet you denounce the movement as a whole and seem incapable of seeing it as anything other than a monolithic entity which as condones violence. That isn't logical and doesn't reflect what is happening on the ground.

If BLM focused purely on the police and not gratuitous violence on the peripheries against innocent people then you could argue that. But that won't happen, best go around mob handed and take out vulnerable people, eh? Perhaps loot and burn businesses down that are run by black people? The irony.

I listened to an original Black Panther member who said they used to loot to get supplies to distribute to poor families. These days, he said, the looters were well dressed and had nothing but malicious intent.

I wonder why you people never get so furious about the majority of lobbying and funding that actually goes between right wing politicians and non jewish people/family companies?

Its always 'Soros! Rothchilds! Goldman-Sachs!

So either you openly spout repeatedly discredited antisemitic conspiracy theories, or you're too stupid to realise what you're spouting are repeatedly discredited (nazi originated) antisemitic conspiracy theories, Dowah. Which one is it?

To be fair I think there is a difference between being racist (actually thinking that your race is superior to another) and genuinely not seeing or understanding the additional difficulties faced by black people in the UK or US. (I feel the same way about people not seeing women's issues - it's not always misogyny.)

The latter is just as likely to be the ignorance of someone lucky enough not to have experienced discrimination (on that basis at least) and genuinely not seeing what the problem is. Which isn't great, but means that it's likely to be more fruitful to explain and show over time - an opportunity that will be missed if everyone just defaults to sitting "racist!" at that person.

Yes, you can get tired of having to 'teach' people who you feel should already know our be teaching themselves but, pragmatically, the patient winning of hearts and minds has got to be the best way?

Which side of the fence your BF falls is a call you have to make. Either way you don't have to stay in a relationship with someone you don't want to for any reason at all.

'Nearly all Black Lives Matter protests are peaceful despite Trump narrative, report finds'

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/05/nearly-all-black-lives-matter-protests-are-peaceful-despite-trump-narrative-report-finds

People feel more or less strongly about issues or about how much they can tolerate others having different opinions on an issue.

Some people would be less annoyed by this, but what matters is how important him having the same opinion on this as you is to you. I don't agree with him, but his opinion is not rare. My friend has two mixed race kids and she still says 'all lives matter' because she thinks everyone's lives matter equally- she doesn't get what those of us who say 'Black lives matter' are talking about. Similarly with my friend who's of Pakistani and Roma heritage- and she disagrees with the vandalism etc.

I agree with the statement/intent of the phrase 'Black Lives Matter,' but I disagree with the other aims of the BLM movement itself (overthrow capitalism etc, they have quite a broad range of goals) and their violent methods.

But what matters is how important it is to you that a partner agrees with you exactly on this issue. After my most recent ex, it'd be important to me to find someone who was more feminist than he was.

Again you view the BLM movement as a single entity who all behave in the same way! In every political movement, irrespective of its place on the political spectrum, there will be some who are their to further their own interests. Nobody disputes that bad things have happened. But you seem to think that because those things have happened, all the people involved approve of those things, condone them, even participate in them. That's a simplistic view. Life isn't black and white (oh, the irony!).

@user1471565182

You arnt a racist because you got done for GBH and your grandad was in the war or something?

SHould probably stop spouting racist theories then.

My point was to show the futility of violence. An eye for an eye and we all go blind. As a previous posted quoted:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Who is the good man and who is evil when my business or home gets burned down or I get shot at all in the name of BLM, as has happened in the US?

You seem to have very little in the way of moral values and integrity.

there not their. Bugger, I hate when I do that.

Who is the good man and who is evil when my business or home gets burned down or I get shot at all in the name of BLM, as has happened in the US?

The good men are the ones who are demonstrating against injustice but not committing violent acts. That should be obvious.