Prostitutes

[allgoodinthehood]

Can I please have an honest opinion on what you really think of people who use prostitution.
I was talking to a friend about it and we had completely different ideas on this subject.
ie a man using a prostitute when he was in a relationship and was away on holiday.

Yes, I bet that starting out in your mid thirties made a difference Cora. I am that age now and the difference in confidence and not standing for any bullshit between how I am now and how I was as an older teen / in my early twenties, is stark. There are adults and adults. I wasn't really very grown up at that age, although I know some people are.

@greysome

I would think they are not a great person, and I wouldn't want to be involved with them. Women's bodies are not a commodity and consent cannot be purchased. Sex is not a human right, the idea that it's ok to purchase it if you cannot find it consensually is disgusting. Some one using prostitutes when in a relationship is even more disturbing, as in addition to the above they are betraying a partner too.

This.

Cora makes the whole shoddy business sound like searching for duchy organics in Waitrose.

@BustyDusty

Cora makes the whole shoddy business sound like searching for duchy organics in Waitrose.

Waitrose is accessible, and duchy organics range is available in all their branches. Some choose to shop in there, many others do not. As it is (and always has been) my supermarket of choice, it is an analogy that amuses, particularly as I eat organic food - I care about where my food has come from, how it has lived and been treated.

I care about who I choose to allow access to me, and not all men want dirt cheap, possibly trafficked underage girls. Not all men want just sex either. Some do want to see someone age appropriate who is selective and 'low volume'. I never expected to find myself doing this, but I did, and I worked out what my boundaries were and what was acceptable to me and have stuck rigidly to it. Should I not enjoy a man's company, I do not see him again. However, that has only happened once, and only because the man in question was rude to waiting staff (and not because of anything he did to me).

The only thing that has ever surprised me about prostitution is just how many men are actively looking for and seeking paid sex, and how 'normal' they are. For those who think they do not know any men who have, you are being naive at best. Prostitution is not called the world's oldest profession without reason, it will never go away no matter how hard legislators and activists try to make it illegal. All that will happen is that it will be driven underground and make it harder to protect the women who are involved. Make it legal, and bring in better controls. Make sure no-one is being exploited in the process and nor are others gaining financially from those who prostitute themselves.

OP, I am sorry for derailing your thread

"I honestly do not know how those who are not control of themselves can do this."
I mean they do it because they're desperate and/or because someone else is in control of them. That's how this "industry" operates for the vast majority of its victims. It's nice that there are outliers and I'm glad you're one of them, but it's not representative.

Just to add, it's like you're someone who makes textiles for a high end fashion company in London saying "the textile industry isn't ALL like Bangladesh, look at me" when the vast majority of textiles workers are working in Bangladesh conditions.

There's nothing wrong with what Cora has said. She acknowledges there are far too many sex workers who are nowhere near as fortunate as she is.

I think it's a good thing these men choose someone like Cora over a street-walker who is far more likely to be vulnerable.

However, I am not naive enough to think they choose this because they care about women. Impossible to say, but, for me, a man who wants to pay for sex is much more likely to choose someone like Cora for their own benefit. Perceived lower risk of STI, violence and a naicer experience. So, I don't think they are better men because they choose Cora.

As to how many men do it; I'm sure it is a lot! I am positive men in my acquaintance will have, but they would never tell me. I can only make my own boundaries clear and I would not knowingly have a close relationship with any grown man who had willingly paid for sex. It's something I feel quite strongly about. If it needs to be said, I would feel the same as if someone told me they had been involved in slavery.

It has been decriminalised. If this helps protect sex workers, of course I am for that. I know there are degrees of how difficult a time sex workers have, ranging from someone like Cora, to a 14 yo being trafficked in, having her passport removed and kept locked in a dilapidated warehouse somewhere.

But, it all stems from the same issue; a huge number men believe sex is their entitlement, whether the person having sex with them is sharing their enjoyment or not. What better illustration of this issue is there than; "I want sex. It is difficult to find someone for x, y or z reason. I don't have the charm / looks / ability to make a connection / inclination to make a connection. I do have some money though. So I can just buy it". I don't think consideration for the person on the receiving end comes into their thoughts at all at this point. Men who believe they have built a relationship with sex workers have done so in a position of dominance, whether they know it or not. It may not be overt, but as the paying client, they are the ones being serviced, and accommodated.

Some men who frequently use sex workers who were interviewed in the article which I think was posted on here, said "well, some men, if they couldn't have sex with sex workers, they'd just raoe someone, so this is better" . How about you do neither? Access to a woman's body is not your god given right chum. It doesn't make you a hero because you paid for sex instead of rape. Rape shouldn't have come into your mind at all, the minute you wanted sex with a living person and couldn't easily access it without resorting to violence.

To address another point, which Cora raised I think; that she'd rather her partner had sex with a sex worker if he was going to cheat, as there is no emotion involved, while affairs are emotional. Again, how about he does neither? For me, if someone I was in a relationship put his penis inside another person, I would consider that to be an affair. If he had paid for it, I would lose respect for him on another level, for the reasons I stated earlier. There are emotional affairs of course, which can be very harmful to relationships, but can also be grey areas. People can, (perhaps shouldn't), forgive those. People are less inclined to forgive affairs where they have had sex.

My views of men who abuse prostituted women are strongly influenced by what the women themselves tell me.

These women lead very different lives from the Belle Du Jour type story told by Cora.

These women all have severe mental health problem and most have addictions. They are working to fund their habit and/ or their “boyfriends” aka pimp. They are regularly assaulted and sometimes raped.

Most have children but they don’t live with them - they are being brought up by grandparents or in foster care. Some of them don’t even see their children.

These women are clinging onto life by their fingertips. None of them want to live like this but they struggle to see that the alternatives could work for them .

The men who use and abuse them are utter scum.

The other thing I think is that men who do this, will lie about the sex workers they see. To other people and to themselves. Once they have taken that first step, where they think a women's orrafice can be rented for their own entertainment or comfort, they have created an internal narrative where she is a product and not a person. Sex workers, STATISTICALLY, (so this doesn't mean you I don't think Cora), much more likely to suffer a violent death at the hands of another person. This is for a number of reasons, obviously, but some of it comes from men believing sex workers are their thing, not a person, to be disposed of as and when they feel like it, if they become inconvenient or non compliant.

The lies being, "the woman I see loves her work! She just loves sex. She's one of the happy, classy ones". I know some sex workers are perfectly happy doing their jobs, but I think men will lie about the sex workers they use and say they only ever see the happy, healthy ones. I remember listening to a woman who had been kidnapped and held against her will in an apartment, starved and abused and never let out. Men came to have sex with her and the other women there and she said she couldn't believe it, because they all knew. They all could see what was happening to her, but they just came to abuse her anyway and not one reported it to the police. This was in Ireland, not some far away place.

Yes, some sex workers are happy, but equally when men abuse women in places like this, they simply don't care enough that they are the ones that are suffering. Not enough to forgo their "rightful shag. Bought and paid for" or to report it.

Scum.

Of course I would judge a man who used prostituted women. If in a relationship I would leave him. If it was a friend, that would end the friendship.

Men who think they can buy consent from women who are trafficked, abused, drug-dependent or trapped in poverty are vile pigs. I’d rather geld them than speak to them.

Women aren’t fuck toys.

@MommySharkDooDooDooDoo

Yes, I'm sure that's true *@sansucre*. I don't think you mean me, but, although I did mention STIs, I did so saying that when men choose a naicer (you say decent) sex worker, they do so to minimise their risk of contracting STI. Not because they are being altruistic towards the women they are using.

Oooops I think I've accidentally replied to an ancient post! Thought it was at the bottom of the thread, but I must have been on a different page!

Ignore sorry!

@I0NA

My views of men who abuse prostituted women are strongly influenced by what the women themselves tell me.

These women lead very different lives from the Belle Du Jour type story told by Cora.

These women all have severe mental health problem and most have addictions. They are working to fund their habit and/ or their “boyfriends” aka pimp. They are regularly assaulted and sometimes raped.

Most have children but they don’t live with them - they are being brought up by grandparents or in foster care. Some of them don’t even see their children.

These women are clinging onto life by their fingertips. None of them want to live like this but they struggle to see that the alternatives could work for them .

The men who use and abuse them are utter scum.

Please do not call me a Belle de Jour type, I am not, and I operate very differently.

Belle (and many like her) are not independents, they are with an agency, handing over at least 30% of their fee to the agency. They have no say over their clients. Most agencies don't even screen clients other than making sure their mobile phone number is not withheld, and often mislead what services the woman provides. Also, they are emphatic about the client must be happy, so it makes it difficult for the woman not to complain if the client is awful/difficult/tries to make them do things they do not enjoy.

I have total autonomy, keep all my fee and pay taxes accordingly.

But, yes, sadly, many prostitutes have been treated horribly, have history of abusive, are pimped and have drug problems. The flipside of this are that many do not and see it as a job to earn good money.

It is worth noting that sex work is one of the few areas where women massively out earn men. I strongly believe that many men's attitudes to prostitutes and the way they treat them stems from this as they are filled with resentment.

I had no idea this was an old thread, it appeared in trending yesterday and why I posted. It is such a multi-faceted topic, and so divisive, but I honestly think that frank discussions are needed about how best to protect the women involved as prostitution is not going away and the Nordic model is not the way to go either.

To me it’s close to being the modern equivalent of the slave trade. It’s abusive and men should be criminalised for participating.

@Grimsknee

Just to add, it's like you're someone who makes textiles for a high end fashion company in London saying "the textile industry isn't ALL like Bangladesh, look at me" when the vast majority of textiles workers are working in Bangladesh conditions.

Lol she's nailed it.

The majority of prostitution seems to be via adultwork etc and the "McDonald's" end if the business is where the bulk is happening, and by fk reading the UK punting reviews is eye opening.

Men actually comment if the prostitute has conversational English - because it's note worthy.

It's also so obvious.readknv between the lines of the punting reviews that the vast vast majority of the women doing it, don't want to be doing it.

That's not even getting onto the occasional references to obvious drug use/addiction, and the ironic references to their pimps az "Sergei" .. who are apparently eastern European etc and if put good money on being gang members.

Would you, as a woman with almost no English and little money, perhaps dependants back home etc mess with gang members? They probably brain wash them into thinking they take care of them too.

It's no coincidence that the young women murdered by the Ipswich serial killer were all drug addicts too.

It is worth noting that sex work is one of the few areas where women massively out earn men

I just don't even know where to begin with the ironic and significance of this statement.

@MarshmallowAra

The majority of prostitution seems to be via adultwork etc and the "McDonald's" end if the business is where the bulk is happening, and by fk reading the UK punting reviews is eye opening.

Men actually comment if the prostitute has conversational English - because it's note worthy.

Punters, those who review women make up a tiny percentage of men who pay for sex. It always strikes me as surreal how narrow a view the men of UKPunting have and do not realise just how insignificant they are.

And yes, conversational English is commented on because often, men want to confirm services in the room, and if English is poor, that is harder. Also, someone with poor English is referred to a 'pump and dump', as there is no conversation, just sex. It's foul. I have even seen men comment if lube is used. It is vile.

Adultwork is like McDonalds, and as I am not something to order at a whim, do not use it.

You've missed the point that McDonald's represents huge volume - as does the type of prostitution reviewed on UK punting etc.

Economy versions of anything are the most commonly consumed.

And you have no way of saying what percentage of men who use prostitutes review or read reviews on UK punting. You're trying to say they're not representative ... That's not quantifiable or realistic.

The user who said you're the equivalent of working in a artisan up market clothing maker saying your experience should be viewed as as common as sweat shop workers hit the nail on the head.

Just stop, please.

And yes, conversational English is commented on because often, men want to confirm services in the room, and if English is poor, that is harder.

It's commented on because it's rare for the prostitutes to even have conversational English, which is made clear by the men. And of course yes, because they think the prostitutes use "I no understand" to get out of often quite uncomfortable, degrading sex acts they're paying them bottom dollar, no pun intended, to do .. and that they gave to advertise on their profiles just to get business. Also if seems that they don't even put together their own profile some of the time, their pimps (male or female) do.

*have to advertise