Prostitutes

[allgoodinthehood]

Can I please have an honest opinion on what you really think of people who use prostitution.
I was talking to a friend about it and we had completely different ideas on this subject.
ie a man using a prostitute when he was in a relationship and was away on holiday.

@StamfordHill

"If a SW enters into a transaction with someone of her own volition, with nobody coercing or pressuring her, that makes it consensual. It's as simple as that."

So how do you know the difference? Genuinely?

You haven't answered whether you would accept £200 from a man for sex if your kids were starving, Stamford.

Sod it let's make it £800 you can get them some clothes and pay off your back rent as well.

*Again, I never said SW is 'like any other job' as that is a totally meaningless statement. Like which other job? Flipping burgers? Teaching? Mining? Being a stunt actor?

What I said is you can buy sexual consent just like you can buy consent for other work.*

Hang on. You say 'for other work'. Therefore, you DO believe that prostition is 'work' which can be compared to 'other' jobs. You appear to be saying that you can buy 'consent' for sex in the same way that you can 'buy consent' for someone to file your nails - to give your own example - or paint your kitchen. And yet you insist you are not claiming that sex work is just another job?

As to losing benefits etc., well no, nobody should be forced to work at a a high risk job or lose their benefits. So even if just for that.

And here we go again. You say prostition is a 'high risk job'. Therefore, it IS a job for you.

Can you please say precisely why sex work is not just a job, given all of the above?

I don't know. Hard to deal in hypotheticals. Why is this relevant?

You don't know eh? Why not have a think about it? Why not do that right now?

What you really mean is that you prefer to consider prostitution as something which happens to other people out there. Not to you and not to yours.

If consent can be bought - as you repeatedly insist - then surely everyone has their price? Including you?

Is it consent though? Or is it no other choice. How do you know the difference?

I'd have to be high to cope with doing it and I'd have to be high to cope with how I'd feel afterwards.

Then the cycle begins for a lot of women. Drugs or alcohol to cope, Then dependency. Vicious circle.

I don't think there is anything else where someone is paid for a service that carries the same amount of risk to health, mental heath and safety. Every single time.

But some places are legal and regulated, like Germany. Legal prostitution makes it all OK, right? And consenting, right? So you CAN tell the women want to, right?

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/trouble-in-paradise-rise-and-fall-of-germany-brothel-king-jurgen-rudloff

Turns out when women, as in Germany, have more choices, less of those choices involve sucking off strangers.

Paid-for consent is not real consent.

This would be an absolute hard line dealbreaker for me, and hell yes I'd judge.

Slave Girl by Sarah Forsyth is an eye opener and heartbreaking the ordeal she went through and her mental state during and afterwards. The stuff she went through is unthinkable.

@MrsTerryPratchett

But some places are legal and regulated, like Germany. Legal prostitution makes it all OK, right? And consenting, right? So you CAN tell the women want to, right?

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/trouble-in-paradise-rise-and-fall-of-germany-brothel-king-jurgen-rudloff

Turns out when women, as in Germany, have more choices, less of those choices involve sucking off strangers.

Whoda think it eh?

Still waiting to hear back from the poster who claimed that women don't mind prostitution because they're 'sexually free'. I wonder if she has an answer to my questionas to why these 'sexually free' women tend to be from countries like China or Romania, rather than, say, Denmark or Switzerland?

Why is it not relevant?

That's what you are saying. Everyone has their price.

So if your children were hungry and you're rent was late, what's yours?

As for Adele. She has millions? I very much doubt she would have sex with a random for any amount. She doesn't need to.

I think any man who argues that it's no different to any other work

But blanches at thinking about putting himself in the position of needing money and being offered decent cash to pay for sex with a man.

Fundamentally does not get any of it.

The reason many women feel uncomfortable / angry/ upset about prostitution is because they can empathise with women doing it. They know how awful men can be. That we're smaller and weaker, usually. We can well imagine the demands they would have. And we know what penetration is like, what it can be like.

Same goes for young men selling sex.

Of course many women and girls aren't earning decent cash doing this.

I'm interested in whether Stamford would say yes to a random man fucking him if it meant he could clear his rent and feed and clothe his kids.

"Now prostitution specifically is a kind of work that on the one hand commands a relatively high hourly rate (especially for the 'high end' escorts), but on the other hand comes with a high risk of physical abuse and psychological damage."

The hourly rate isn't the issue. The issue for me anyway is that it's a very small minority of women (or men) who choose this way to earn money. For those that are forced into it or coerced into it have no choice and that's not always clear to the man buying the service. So it's not real consent. It's in their eyes the lesser evil. Get battered by the pimp or whoever or have sex with a man who hopefully will be quick and not batter you. Or the drug dependency they are battling. A man who goes with a prostitute has no way of knowing for certain why the women is selling herself. They are buying into their desperation.

I can't find the post now but someone in here suggested that the best way to find out if a sex worker is being coerced is to 'ask them' 😂 because, yeah, someone who is repeatedly abused and forced by violent criminals to do a job they hate for money they might not see or for drugs they're addicted to are bound to feel safe in sharing that information with whoever is planning on asking them.
I don't know who's planning on doing the asking, but the kind of blokes who think it's OK to seek out prostitutes to use as fuck holes is unlikely to stop the proceedings if by any miracle she did disclose coercion.
These guys are complicit in rape, whether or not they think they're paying for an empowered woman who just Likes nice things or who wants to pay her way through higher education, or give her kids better opportunities.
Because paying for sex, any sex, IS contributing to the sex industry which heavily leans on trafficked and abused women and children and young vulnerable people including men.

If you can't see why it's relevant then you really are coming at this from a certain angle.

It's interesting that you flat out refuse to answer.

Your children are hungry. You are behind on your rent. They need new shoes.

A man offers you money for sex. What's your price? An hour. £100? £800? £1500?..

You say everyone has a price. Your children are hungry. What's yours?

My argument is that bought consent is consent, and my proof is from all kinds of work that people do solely for the money. If you couldn't buy consent, that would all be slavery.

Did you read the article about Germany? It turns out that with choices, and without beatings and coercion, women don't do this work. At least not in the horrifying numbers needed to feed the factory brothels in Germany. Which means there IS coercion involved in most sex work. Even if consent could be bought (which is the hill you appear to want to die on), even if we concede your point, it's still rape in many if not most cases.

"If you can't see why it's relevant then you really are coming at this from a certain angle.

It's interesting that you flat out refuse to answer.

Your children are hungry. You are behind on your rent. They need new shoes.

A man offers you money for sex. What's your price? An hour. £100? £800? £1500?..

You say everyone has a price. Your children are hungry. What's yours?"

I don't even get your argument. Women do it out of desperation is hardly enthusiastic consent, is it?

Would you ask the same question to a man? How much to take it up the arse to feed your child? I really doubt you would. Because it's basically seen as acceptable for women to sell their bodies out of desperation in a way that it isn't for men.

Do you think Ivanka Trump goes out getting paid for sex? Or Beyonce? Or Princess Beatrice?

Of course not, because whatever the price, they don't need to.

"I don't assign the same meaning as anything to anything"

This is just utter nonsense, everything is assigned meaning in our society, whether you want to see that or not.