Domestic Abuse - Why Do Women Put Up With It?

[Guides009]

I don't usually read the Mirror, this story of a mother of 8, has really made me upset.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-eight-beaten-death-paving-22504713?utm_source=mirror_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=EM_Mirror_Nletter_DailyNews_News_smallteaser_Image_Story&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter&ccid=397482

@MangoFeverDream

White Kiwis are also knocking 5 bells out of their wives. There's plenty of racism sure, but please don't mistake this for a "Maori issue". Its cultural - Kiwi cultural

Never said it was. But Maori women are much more likely to experience domestic violence, and there are some indications that it is not taken as seriously by the authorities.

In New Zealand, one in three women will experience violence in their lives, but research shows that figure is up to 80 percent for Māori women

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rnz.co.nz/article/a3715055-ce53-4a49-91ad-47e321605b59

That’s a huge gap, and a shameful one for NZ.

I complete agree - it is shameful. We just need to be very, very careful about making it a "Maori" (or "Aboriginal" problem) as that "others" in in NZ (and Aussie) in a way which actually results in less attention and funding to deal with the problem (again, shamefully).

It is absolutely a culture wide problem. It's the entire culture and it won't ever change (and can't change for the benefit of Maori/Aboriginal peoples either) without harsh and critical reflection across ALL socio economic groups in society.

Reading that Mirror article, seeing yet another Kiwi woman brutally bashed to death, that actually hurt, and I am just so fucking sick of it and nothing ever changing.

This actually answers all the questions above, specifically about a Kiwi DV murder, but also any DV murder of women trying to leave. Careful, it's a pretty hard read.

www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-crime/domestic-violence-women-new-zealand-has-been-normalised

*Uh uh.

White Kiwis are also knocking 5 bells out of their wives. There's plenty of racism sure, but please don't mistake this for a "Maori issue". Its cultural - Kiwi cultural.

Domestic violence is a Kiwi issue (and, worldwide, a women's issue).*

It's s worldwide issue.

But it's even more concentrated in some communities for various reasons, one of them is Maori .. why do think "Once were warriors" was made.

Saying it's even more concentrated in some communities is not saying it doesn't happen in all communities.

[quote plantlife]@LilyWater
The NZ mother had left him. It seems she was forced by NZ law to remain living near him. She wasn't allowed to be safe.

We don't tell the police because when the abuser is arrested he's released after 12-24 hours. Many many of them ignore bail conditions. It's well known and mentioned in many criminal justice, dv, etc reports.
So it's often dangerous to tell the police. They're even more angry after being arrested. There's a lot of pressure on women to stay in the local area, which makes them a target. Lots of refuges have only very limited funding or space for non locals.

Even if someone does press charges, very often they get at most a suspended sentence. They are free to keep being a danger. Meanwhile the victim's completely destroyed. Had her mental health (a mess because of abuse) dragged through the mud in court (as he threatens to do to me), left with no safe home or money, often no job, poor mental and physical health, mo friends, complete isolation, and often very little support from underfunded services.

Lots of mothers have also explained the difficulties they've faced in protecting their children after separation.

People refusing to accept or believe the barriers and issues to leaving keep those barriers up. It's only going to change if it's acknowledged.

@Fightingback16 thank you. I'm trying to gather the strength to try again. Again. It's so hard without much support. It doesn't help that even if I manage to make the various calls, some things like dealing with local authority housing departments often really need an advocate, just for it all to be taken seriously. They don't always do that if it's send reported.

I really hope things finally get better for you too. You've already done so much and so well.[/quote]
Plantlife, according to the article she hadn't left, they were still living together when she was tragically killed. I don't think any court can be held responsible if a woman keeps on allowing the abuser to return to the family home.

Totally agree with previous posters.
The question is - why are an alarming number of males in our society predatory murderers? Women die weekly in this country at the hands of men.
Those poor poor children. This story has left me utterly shaken to the core.

They may stay because they fear if they leave they'll be stalked for the rest of their lives
They fear even worse violence
They fear him turning up at work to shout and threaten.
They fear he will make stories up and turn their families and friends against them.
They fear the shame that is felt following abuse, feeling dirty, worthless, hopeless, unworthy, unloveable.
They fear loneliness, who would want them tainted by abuse and emotionally scarred and broken.

@GilbertMarkham

*Uh uh.

White Kiwis are also knocking 5 bells out of their wives. There's plenty of racism sure, but please don't mistake this for a "Maori issue". Its cultural - Kiwi cultural.

Domestic violence is a Kiwi issue (and, worldwide, a women's issue).*

It's s worldwide issue.

But it's even more concentrated in some communities for various reasons, one of them is Maori .. why do think "Once were warriors" was made.

I saw some of the sort of things from Once Were Warriors, I know why it was made.

This:
"He’s also obviously a Maori, and that community has documented problems with domestic violence"
...is exactly the sort of language which causes people to dismiss it as "ah well, nothing to be done here".

Something about that...that's exactly the problem. "I'm not like her, that wouldn't happen to me" - until it does.

One reason is that it takes a tremendous amount of energy and confidence and self-belief to break out of a controlling relationship.

Guess what abuse (which has likely been going on quietly long before it's obvious enough to break up a home for) robs you of? Energy. Confidence. Self belief.

It's like you're sitting in your getaway car, you're even behind the wheel ready to drive off and escape. But some bastard's put there sucking the petrol out of the tank with a hose.

You can't drive off if your fuel's been sucked dry.

@damnitnotlistening

They may stay because they fear if they leave they'll be stalked for the rest of their lives They fear even worse violence They fear him turning up at work to shout and threaten. They fear he will make stories up and turn their families and friends against them. They fear the shame that is felt following abuse, feeling dirty, worthless, hopeless, unworthy, unloveable. They fear loneliness, who would want them tainted by abuse and emotionally scarred and broken.

Exactly.

This one left. This one accessed police, the courts, family, friends. He was "just" coercively controlling. She feared he would kill her - noone really took her seriously of course - even though he'd previously had a murder kit (yes, a murder kit) for his ex and their then 7 or 8 year old. Nothing useful was done.🤷‍♀️

The fucking horror of her end. And that of her 3 little children.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/29/coercive-control-and-domestic-abuse-what-might-have-saved-hannah-clarke-and-her-children

This is why women stay.

*out not put

I know why it was made.

Well you haven't acknowledged that in what you've written.

That while all communities have DV, it is even more concentrated/endemic in some communities, and the Maori descent writer, scriptwriter, director, and actors wanted to expose/spotlight and condemn it.

...is exactly the sort of language which causes people to dismiss it as "ah well, nothing to be done here".

I agree that poster should have phrased that differently. That DV is common among all communities and in some, including Maori, it appears to be even more common. (Or it is reported more or both). But it's easy not to phrase things with perfect nuance in a debate.

A d why would it mean "nothing to be fine here" .. surely it means the opposite; those communities need even.nore help and we still need help and awareness in our communities.

*done

"I'm not like her, that wouldn't happen to me" - until it does.

I don't know about anyone else but the fact that DV seems to be even more endemic in some communities and cultures, doesn't make me think it doesn't happen in my community/culture - it most definitely does. And it doesn't make me think I'm not like the women of that community; it just makes me think that I have a "good" chance of being subject to DV here and I'd have an even "better" chance of being subject to DV in their community or a similar one.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-53237765

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/laura-stuart-murder-jason-cooper-domestic-abuse-death-north-wales-police-denbigh-a9062361.html%3famp

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/sheriff-woman-killed-daughters-online-class-72332365

Well you haven't acknowledged that in what you've written.

She was a woman and she was murdered. Statistics should be studied and specific population work absoutely must be done - but to look at the photo and reduce it to "ah, a Maori, high rates of DV there" as though all is explained - no. She is a woman all central services failed to protect and save. Those central authorities (police, courts, SS etc) could have saved her, had they chosen to do so. They did not choose to save her. They do not choose to save a woman this month. They will not choose to save a woman next month.

The sad fact is that authorities choose not to save women - like this poor woman who died over excruciating minutes as her head was bashed in right in front of her screaming children.

That's not because Maori have night rates of DV (though Maori do). It's because the authorities have zero will to protect women and children from the violence meted out by men.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-sussex-39355895

They left . They died. That's just a cursory view of the many many cases that happen daily.

I'm sure some people would try to blame the victim anyways. Maybe they left too late...Maybe they made him mad...Maybe they didn't report enough ...

He’s also obviously a Maori, and that community has documented problems with domestic violence

..is exactly the sort of language which causes people to dismiss it as "ah well, nothing to be done here

It is not. There are barriers to Maori women getting the help they need. The prospect of children getting taken into care is a very sensitive one in that community for obvious reason. More needs to be done and an approach that ignores this history, for example, will fail.

@MangoFeverDream

He’s also obviously a Maori, and that community has documented problems with domestic violence

..is exactly the sort of language which causes people to dismiss it as "ah well, nothing to be done here

It is not. There are barriers to Maori women getting the help they need. The prospect of children getting taken into care is a very sensitive one in that community for obvious reason. More needs to be done and an approach that ignores this history, for example, will fail.

Which is again putting the onus on the woman.

Why was that man outside of prison walls? Why was he not excluded from city limits, with an anklet? Why would he have any access to the children by state mandate - non mols obviously can't work with access in place.

The problem is that all the efforts are in what women do - this is what creates fear of the children being removed. Because SS do threaten to remove kids if she's with him - but those same SS will then demand she give him access visits (then proceed to take her kids again when he's used access to intimate and coerce her back with him).

The efforts need to be on stopping men from gaining access to those women - including arresting the men even if they claim to be invited back - so that those women can feel safe to stay away and so that no can really mean no.

Tldr: the solution is to stop threatening victimised women with the loss of their children and start threatening violent men with the loss of their freedom.

*She is a woman all central services failed to protect and save. Those central authorities (police, courts, SS etc) could have saved her, had they chosen to do so. They did not choose to save her. They do not choose to save a woman this month. They will not choose to save a woman next month...

That's not because Maori have night rates of DV (though Maori do). It's because the authorities have zero will to protect women and children from the violence meted out by men.*

I don't know the ins and outs of the law in NZ but I imagine from this case that neither the police, courts or SS can currently prevent a woman from continuing to live with and be in a relationship with a man who had repeatedly violently assaulted her, including "seriously" enough to have done at least one custodial sentence for it (not clear from what I've read whether or was more than one).

I'm presuming that, unless the man is violent or abusive or neglectful to the children, as the law stands, they cannot prevent the woman from continuing the relationship. How do you stop someone having a relationship with, living with etc. another person and enforce that?

By constantly checking and threatening to their kids away if they continue the relationship? How? Noone can check 24 7 that the other person is not staying there/visiting. And the punitive measures above would be seen as victimising/bullying/punishing the woman by many.

You're probably going to point out that she had ended the relationship and that's true but they were still living together. And he waxms there because they had been living together up to that point.

It's far from impossible that he would have caught her somewhere and done similar if they hadn't been, but it's less likely. She was as accessible as she could have been.

Do you think the courts, police and SS failed her because they didn't get her counselling that would ensure she left him and never lived with him again? There us NI counselling that can ensure that. Or do you think.it was for financial reasons, do you think she couldn't survive without his financial input, is it the benefits system?

it is clear, very clear

Women need training oh what domestic abuse looks like and what healthy boundaries look like

By constantly checking and threatening to their kids away if they continue the relationship? How? Noone can check 24 7 that the other person is not staying there/visiting. And the punitive measures above would be seen as victimising/bullying/punishing the woman by many.

No, I assert precisely the opposite. Stop taking the kids and start taking the man. Dont threaten to remove the kids from a woman who knows bloody well that this same man will have unsupervised visitation, and will stalk harass and murder her and possibly even the kids if she leaves.

Take him. Take him away.

He is the problem. Not her. Not the kids. Remove him. And punish him if he's found anywhere near them.