Domestic Abuse - Why Do Women Put Up With It?

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I don't usually read the Mirror, this story of a mother of 8, has really made me upset.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-eight-beaten-death-paving-22504713?utm_source=mirror_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=EM_Mirror_Nletter_DailyNews_News_smallteaser_Image_Story&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter&ccid=397482

@PicsInRed *This is why I directly addressed the "he's obviously a Maori" comment from earlier and this is how it goes in an unhelpful hmm "that's just how they are" direction - which is one of the biggest impediments to getting the public pressure needed to deal to the issue. "That's just them, what can we do? Nothing to do. They're just like that. Ah well, so sad." And so it goes.

Ironically I've had the most openly backward and offensive comments about Maori here in the UK.*

As I said I have direct personal experience of this. In NZ. I make no comment that 'this is just the way it is' because of course it shouldnt be. Are you the lady from the UK now having to live in NZ thanks to her NZ born husband? If so youll know that there are some cultural differences (not just with Maori) that make DV more 'acceptable there. Its sexist as hell in many ways. (By the way hope you are ok!)

All Im saying is that this very culturally entrenched problem is not being currently solved by liberal thinking. Its a very complex issue & for the women the only way out is to get out of that world - but for many its all they know, & they are usually violent themselves. The nearest I could compare it to would be the Traveller community.

To the person who asked about the stigma of single motherhood there - its not a huge stigma. But council houses are for a period of time, not for life (at least they used to be). The benefits system is not dissimilar but perhaps less easy. Its all designed to be a hand up/out rather than a meal ticket for life.

Are you the lady from the UK now having to live in NZ thanks to her NZ born husband?

No. I'm a Kiwi. I agree re: DV in NZ, I agree re: additional issues in the Maori community, I absoutely do not agree that Maori communities as a whole are violent by nature and the rest.Those statements were so grossly offensive and wrong.

The exact same spurious nonsense can be spouted out about why we can't stop men killing women who try to escape.

An excuse to do fuck all

@PicsInRed I was brought up around it. I saw it. I very nearly got caught by a Maori gang (walking along a main road at night) & every week someone (in a small town) was gang raped.

Its not the same in Auckland, or Wellington, or Christchurch. Its not the same as the UK.

Been to any 'country pubs' yet? 'Public bars' in the North Island away from cities? With a female friend? Do, youre in for a treat. Walked around places like Gisbourne at night? You simply must try it.

If you think sending a white social worker to a Maori community to explain how violence is not ok will work you are very welcome to try it.

NZs justice system is exceptionally liberal. At the time it started violent crime started going through the roof, & its now a violent & dangerous place. Not everywhere, not everyone & certainly not all Maori people.

The law also rarely takes DV (or most other violent offences) seriously. Even when there's strong evidence and a conviction. He's taunted me many times about this. Says how he'd get a slap on the wrist but I'd be homeless. He's right. He's been given the tools to abuse by government (Labour and Tory both) policy. The removal over the last twenty years of the safety net.

Women leaving abuse are the ones who have to live like criminals. The abuser has a normal safe home, normal job, friends, family, normal everyday life. The victims end up in shitty, often unsafe and dirty, insecure homeless accomodation in an unfamiliar area, traumatised, mentally (and sometimes physically) damaged, no money struggling even for the essentials, with no friends, family, or any kind of support network.

The first time I was properly beaten up, I wanted to walk out. Apart from the fact that I couldn't actually walk at first, I had nowhere to walk out to. I'm old enough to have rented homes on housing benefit. Until 15-20 years ago that wasn't a huge issue. It wasn't too hard to find somewhere half decent. Now even many slum landlords won't take you.

It's not just about safe housing but it's a big part of it. The need for good support - someone to advocate for you, to provide emotional and practical support is so desperate. It's available in some areas but it's a postcode lottery.

Last year 60% of refuge referrals were turned down because of lack of space.

Transport. How do women leave. With no money or a physical disability or several young children. It's safer to leave your area but actually getting away isn't always easy. Trains aren't always practical and even more risky during a pandemic. How do clinically vulnerable to coronavirus women safely leave.

And it's not as simple as just going to the police. They claim you're mentally ill and the injuries are self inflicted. In my case he once filmed me in a state of absolute distress. It was after he'd been violent and raging including telling me to kill myself. He's now got 'proof' that I'm 'unstable' and 'deranged'.

Someone on here urged women to report every incident. It doesn't guarantee safety. All that happens is they're more angry. They'll be arrested but with no evidence they're released angrier than ever. When I say no evidence I include the examples of them claiming injuries are self inflicted.

There needs to be better support and access to safe housing. Like another poster I won't hold my breath but I'll keep trying until I die.

I'll preface this with admitting I'm seriously pissed off at the world and in a highly cynical mood today. The research I did yesterday on this thread and another didn't help either.

In my eyes, society and the systems are the way it is because it wants it to be. Society wants women to stay. It's so much more cost effective.

Leaving costs money, benefits,housing , legal aid if available, SS,MH support, family court,supervised access(if lucky) etc.
Reporting costs money investigations, trials,lawyers, jailing(with other associated costs). Look at all the hand wringers that "there's just not enough room in prisons". Imagine if all the abusive men actually ended up inside too.

If she stays, there's none of that. If she dies, he (and there would be less murderers than actual abusers anyways)might go to jail unless it's all "sex game gone wrong" . But she won't cost any more money. Just the children if there are any or if they survive.

Then there's the social element. He has his punching bag and outlet at home so might lash out less in public. Instead of abusing however many women he might be able to get in his clutches, there's only one woman being abused for years and years.

Leaving is not cost effective hence the stigma associated with it and the societal pressure that often mirrors the words of the abuser,it's not a coincidence.

Some women might indeed stay forever,it happens.not as often as some of you would like us to believe,but it happens. However, if we really wanted women to leave,if we really wanted abusers jailed and punished and shunned we could make it much easier for it to happen.We aren't. Why not?

With child access. It should only ever be supervised, like contact centres, if there's ever been any violence or other abuse towards either mother or any of the children. I've had both physical and emotional, growing up and as an adult. I have possibly permanent physical damage but it's the emotional stuff that's been most damaging.

@chickenyhead

The exact same spurious nonsense can be spouted out about why we can't stop men killing women who try to escape.

An excuse to do fuck all

Absolutely fucking not. Dont even think about pinning that on me. I have plenty I can think of to do & it does not involve blaming the women, making them responsible for their own escape, or saying thats just the way it is. Quite the opposite.

As far as Im concerned the police shouldnt need you to press charges - a crime was committed the end. Men should be removed from the envronment & sent far away, with tags, & threats of serious jail time (not a 100% solution but fear works on these men) should they go anywhere near where she lives.

There should be a very well oiled & heavy handed intervention involving PTSD therapy for the woman & her children, automatic separation of him from the children, with the possibility of maybe supervised once he has stopped acting like a cunt.

The men should be logged onto a register, charges pressed, & should there be further violence there should be a serious consequence. He should be forced to pay recompense & if there is a DV program that works for men he should be put on it.

ALL of society needs to band togerher & make these mens life utter misery & if they cant/wont change they need to be kept far away from women & children. It wont happen of course because no one can agree - I can see it here on this thread & women do like to blame each other or get the moral high ground.

I make no claim to a moral high ground. I think these men are complete & utter cunts & dont deserve to live frankly. Id happily see them shot. Sadly any woman that kills a man has to pre meditate in order to do so or have an illegal weapon (also pre meditation) & so their (the mans) violence will continue - because everyone is terrified of them.

@Vodkacranberryplease

Errrr my post wasn't aimed at you

@plantlife The law also rarely takes DV (or most other violent offences) seriously. Even when there's strong evidence and a conviction. He's taunted me many times about this. Says how he'd get a slap on the wrist but I'd be homeless. He's right. He's been given the tools to abuse by government (Labour and Tory both) policy. The removal over the last twenty years of the safety net.

Women leaving abuse are the ones who have to live like criminals. The abuser has a normal safe home, normal job, friends, family, normal everyday life. The victims end up in shitty, often unsafe and dirty, insecure homeless accomodation in an unfamiliar area, traumatised, mentally (and sometimes physically) damaged, no money struggling even for the essentials, with no friends, family, or any kind of support network.

I know you are right. It makes my blood boil. They cant even force these pricks into a settlement. Women flee with the clothes on their backs & have to claim benefits while he lives like nothing has changed, telling the world what a bitch you are & getting 50/50 access.

And the powers that be think this is the easier way to handle it not realising that it spreads it like a cancer. Making more & more victims, & costing everyone more money (which they are supposedly trying to save).

I will give my experience.
Husband wore me down over many years with low level verbal abuse, he held the purse strings and refused to use contraception (I couldn’t use the pill by this point) giving me two babies. Children are now 6 and 9.

Then started the occasional physical abuse, a shoulder barge here, a thumb lock because I wasn’t doing what he wanted, maybe a threat of something being taken away if I didn’t have sex, the usual.

I couldn’t trust him with the children.
He has other children from a previous marriage and I noticed how he behaved to them, they were alienated from their mum just to teach her a lesson, then not parented and allowed to run wild, followed by occasional furious outbursts that were terrifying to everyone.
There were drug problems, police, criminal records and still he would not do “parenting”

His judgement is totally off with children and I reached a point where I could no longer go out leaving the children with him, because whenever I got home something had happened and they were in tears.

Eventually there was a big row and he assaulted me in front of the children. I did the right thing and got him arrested with assurances from the police that he wouldn’t be allowed back due to bail conditions etc and all the ways they would help me.

12 hours later he was out, no charges, as despite my injuries he claimed I fell and apparently him saying that threw doubt on it. They wouldn’t speak to the children who saw it all and could verify, nope, they told me to leave for my own safety as he was coming home.

So I did, and I threw myself on the council who wouldn’t help, infact they advised if we had nowhere to go maybe I should give the kids back to their dad then only I was homeless (they were aware it was DV)

He then started about his 50% custody and I was frankly terrified because I knew it was the start of him (who you would not describe as a good dad) trying to get the children or him encouraging them to live with him to even it up.

So......I didn’t go back, I got a job and managed to rent a place.

He made lots of promises, most of which have come to nothing, but the main one was if we stayed together even with me living elsewhere he’d pretty much leave the children alone.

I agreed to that option.

I can’t afford divorce, ours would be complicated due to him moving stuff as soon as I left and his aim would be financial ruin, I will not see the children given to him 50/50 or even EOW and this stops him, this is my gift to my children, I’ve given up full freedom to ensure he doesn’t fuck their lives up.

I was let down everywhere. Every bit of help I was promised didn’t materialise and the fact he did attack me and injure me is of zero interest to anyone. The Police even refused to assist me getting my belongings, despite assurances they would, apparently it became my problem once they dropped the charges.

I am still controlled, I’ve lost friends who will not get that I can’t have him having a hold over the children and who say”oh let him have them and have a weekend out”

No one gets why I won’t divorce him, but divorcing him will take things to a whole new level and I just can’t go there.

I’m not weak. I view agreeing to stay married to him in order to protect my children actually to be one of the bravest things I’ve done.

Vodkacranberryplease

I'm a Kiwi, a born and bred one, and I actually did grow up around "it".

Now do stop talking racist nonsense.

Making more & more victims, & costing everyone more money (which they are supposedly trying to save).

Number of victims is slightly irrelevant when it comes to costs. It's leaving that costs money, which is precisely why it's made so hard.

It's also so much easier too. Pay some lip service, do a few campaigns, signposts users to charities or refuges that are underfunded,understaffed ,not fit for purpose(due to lack of space,funding and additional services/support not the staff) and not your problem.

Then claim women just don't want to leave after all you've done, shrug your shoulders, look sad when yet another woman does, ask why won't women leave and move on.

No law reform,no tax reform,no benefits reform. No retraining. No research. No extra costs.

[quote chickenyhead]@Vodkacranberryplease

Errrr my post wasn't aimed at you[/quote]
Oo sorry! I did think that it might not have been!! My mistake!

Anyway rant over

@Hatemyhusband

Im so sorry you and your children have been failed in this way and I hear you. I believe you.

And you are right, this is the bravest thing you've done, at least you are out even if not completely free. That time will come eventually as the children get older and can refuse to see him. Be careful he's not lulling you in a false sense of security though and then move the goal posts ,especially now he know the kids are the easiest way to control you.

and watch out for guilt trips, it isn't your guilt. You didn't behave unreasonably, he did. He can own his own guilt.

@Hatemyhusband

I wish you strength. I hope you got his promises on the children written down. I think you will need them for the future.

These men are grim. They wear you down. Keep yourself and your children safe as best you can. One day I hope you can leave and you will plan for this. Thar would be a gift for your children.

The police did not believe me and told me it was my word against his and I should go home.

@Hatemyhusband I am so sorry.

I worry all the time that I failed my children because he got access and they’ve told me things as they’ve got older that are neglect but we’re never enough for SS to intervene.

I hear you and I believe you.

It’s a very weird situation, which outs me, so I can’t go into it too much, but he still sees the children each weekend, but it’s here and as a family. I have made sure over the last year that he is not alone with them and that they live here. My solicitor said if I could set a precedent that they live here, with me and that he comes and sees them it’s better.

I live in a strange world where he sort of lives with us, but doesn’t. He comes most weekends and stays, but will drop us like a sack of bricks if he has the hump with me. I have to continue to have a marriage with him like this

This stops him dragging me through court over and over again to get his 50%

it is so hard.

I had to live this half life until my youngest child (from rape) started nursery. I couldn't afford to work full time, pay 1400 rent and 1200 childcare. I was sick for much of it unfortunately due to the stress and stalking.

Please consider doing the Freedom Programme. It is hard, but worth it.

I had to stop visits in my home as they were used to madden me. Is it good for your mental health? Does it confuse the children?

Much love xxx

@Hatemyhusband

Your solicitor is right. The longer you carry on, it will set a precedent for access.

On balance this will be another mental load for you. Long term I hope you can leave.

Everyone I know thinks I’m really weak.
I don’t. I think Divorce may be easier for me and happier for me, but I will have to watch him move his spite to the children in order to get at me.

When I left his spite was directed at them in spades, it’s left me in no doubt that the children are a tool to ruin me.

I’m not going to let him wreck their childhood and relationship with the only stable, anchoring parent they have just to teach me a lesson, I’m just not.

But it’s cost me friendships, I know people talk about me and think I’m an arse who can’t bear to lose his money (he gives me a small amount monthly for the children but 95% of everything comes out of my pocket) but it’s not that, yes, he does have all the money and yes, I need it, but I need to know my children are safe more than I need a divorce.

@chickenyhead

it is so hard.

I had to live this half life until my youngest child (from rape) started nursery. I couldn't afford to work full time, pay 1400 rent and 1200 childcare. I was sick for much of it unfortunately due to the stress and stalking.

Please consider doing the Freedom Programme. It is hard, but worth it.

I had to stop visits in my home as they were used to madden me. Is it good for your mental health? Does it confuse the children?

Much love xxx

The children know we are “together” but that he doesn’t live with us. They like it this way, they see him for some of the weekend but that he goes away after. They have no desire to live with him or visit his house, in fact they seem quite aware of how he is, especially to me.

It is a very odd situation and I don’t like it.

He wants us to live together again, but I don’t want to