Domestic Abuse - Why Do Women Put Up With It?

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I don't usually read the Mirror, this story of a mother of 8, has really made me upset.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-eight-beaten-death-paving-22504713?utm_source=mirror_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=EM_Mirror_Nletter_DailyNews_News_smallteaser_Image_Story&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter&ccid=397482

There was a programme about domestic abuse on yesterday with Victoria Derbyshire (survivor of childhood domestic abuse) they visited a refuge who said they'd only been able to accommodate half the women who needed it during lockdown

Even the New York Time have picked up UK failures at providing assistance for DV victims during lockdown
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/02/world/europe/uk-coronavirus-domestic-abuse.html

Picsinred put forward a staunch picture of what was going to happen to these men ... And was unrealistic, impractical, unfeasible and words to that effect for various reasons.

(And that was just to men who'd been convicted of assault, there seem to be cases where they don't assault - though there may be a great deal of eg coercion, emotional abuse etc. until they do, injuring and sometimes killing the woman).

One if the fundamental basis of pics' approach is that they are imprisoned and charged if they go near the woman - even if she agreed to him being in her vicinity. Which - until we all get location chips embedded in us andvtracked by the police (!) requires reporting .. and who is doing the reporting? It would you are relying upon the woman, who due to the complex nature of abuse and relationships, may not report consistently or at all.

If you ask me honestly if this young woman who's been murdered by her former partner would have ended the relationship and reported him to the police consistently every time he was in her vicinity; even with robust counselling and support, I honestly have my doubts.

This is a young woman who continued a relationship with a man who served jail time for an assault on her serious enough to merit it in 2008. And had more children with him (possibly due to reproductive abuse) ... When he was in prison there should have been the opportunity to cut all ties.

I'm not saying it's her fault in the slightest degree that she didn't, but I think we need to look at why she didn't and what we could change .. as well as looking at what to do with the violent men.

His sentence is an issue but they weren't going to imprison him for life so he was going to be back out and in her neighbourhood. Should he have been forced to relocate - how do you enforce that?

Would he have been accorded rights to see his children? It seems likely.

What would be crucial to know is what support she got at the time .. would she have been assisted to move elsewhere if she wanted to because the law does t force him to be relocated? Would she have been assisted in facilitating access to kids at a distance/while maintaining her anonymity to him?

Would she gave been able to survive decently on available benefits with 8 kids?

There's a lot we don't know about what support she got or didn't over the years.

Thanks, it's a gift.

You're soooo welcome, dear.

Sorry but your question is a victim blaming one.
There are so many reasons why. If the men in the relationships were not abusive alot of people would not be asking this question.
I believe unless you have been through DA you will never understand the mental torture of emotional and mental abuse. It's alot more powerful than physical abuse and imo leaves more deeper scars.
I don't know this woman's background but alot of women who find themselves in these relationships will be mirroring their parents and their upbringing. So it begins before these relationships happen. The woman's self esteem maybe low. She may view abuse as love because that's what she saw growing up. Fear can be a bit one too. Scared to leave of fear of their life. Scared to leave as a common threat is to take the children away.
The woman is in no way to blame.
I speak as a DA survivor who was brought up in a dysfunctional family.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble but the thread title asks specifically why women stay. Nowhere have I said that if a woman leaves and ends up murdered anyway there are things she should have done. You are applying your own thinking there so as to accuse me and others of victim blaming when that was never the case.

There’s no question that there needs to be support out there once a woman leaves, and protection to ensure that a violent abuser isn’t still a risk to her. Sentences need to be more severe for a start. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are women in abusive relationships now who need to be given the tools to leave, and to leave safely.

It’s categorically not victim blaming to suggest that.

@ Julmust I watched that, it was horrific. And the worst of it was that nowhere did they say anything about what has since happened to Jess’s husband. Was he charged? Will he be jailed? Who knows.

We also know that she was presumably raised and lived a community where DV stats and murders by men of partners and former partners is higher than average, endemic even.

This no doubt affected her perception of normal; if this was being highlighted by Maori film makers in films like Once were warriors in 1994, what has been done to educate people in the community and why is it apparently not working?

Oh and before I get flamed, pointing out the implications that the figures that other posters have posted re DV and women being murdered by partners in the Maori community; is not saying that our community is not affected or that our laws, education, infrastructure is ok. It is not.

@AlternativePerspective

You ARE putting the onus on women. I am well versed in DV, I am a contact officer for my workplace, and I am passionate about protecting women from DV. Have certs in recognising abuse, I am all over here giving advise to those in the thick of it, what abuse is, and how it manifests, how it escalates.

Guest what.... yup... I am in a fucking abusive relationship myself. I realised about 3 months ago. Why? Because as a child I had been conditioned to be the carer, the one who has to keep everyone happy, and for years I facilitated his need to shape our life round him, and right now I cannot do that, so my dh has ramped up his hostility and the "moody/grumpy" person I am living with, always was/is in actual fact an abuser. Always was now the fog has lifted. But our life was such that it didn't look like that, because I worked hard to make his life easy...

I am making my own plans to leave, but believe me when I say that you just do not see it happening.

We already know what support she got love, because she's dead. She had her head bashed in with a paving brick in front of a six year old and 14 year old who tried to stop it.

He violently assaulted her for 18 years, the police were called out over a 100 times. She was on the phone calling the police again when he bashed in her head. How many times is she meant to alert the authorities before he was was arrested and locked up?

How many times did she have to get her face smashed in before he was imprisoned? Prison is meant to keep violent offenders away from the rest of society, not tap them on the wrist then release them back to beat the living crap out of and then eventually murder an innocent women in front of her children.

You expect me to seriously pick apart an argument where a woman is compared to an Ipad? Are you for real?

Women are not responsible for abusive men. Repeat that until you get it, until it really sinks in. Women have a right to life and the government has a duty to protect them from abusive men. We shouldn't have charities who rely on hand outs saving these women's lives. That's how seriously this government and every other government takes domestic abuse which kills two women a week.

That woman is dead and died in the most horrific manner in front of her terrified children, because the state of New Zealand does not give a crap about women's lives. If it did, she would have been supported to get out that abusive relationship and she would have been protected from that monster of a human being. If it cared, those 8 children would not have had to endure 18 years of terror at the hands of that man who eventually killed their mother.

@AlternativePerspective

Do you go out and leave the front door open because to suggest you lock it is victim blaming if you are burgled?

Do you leave your iPad on the back seat of the car because if someone breaks into the car then it’s victim blaming if the iPad is stolen?

Somehow we seem to attribute this victim blaming stereotype to situations where people are in difficult situations which they should feel equipped to leave, but suggesting they should leave is victim blaming, so instead we say nothing, and they stay, and then they end up murdered as a result, when actually, they could have been persuaded to leave.

If a woman is murdered by her partner then she is not responsible. But she can find ways out if these ways are open to her.

Telling people it’s “victim blaming” is a dangerous road to go down when we do want women to be able to leave these relationships.

Why is it always crimes of property that are used as a comparator when victim blaming is talked about.

As much as I think there is victim blaming there’s a piece of work to be done to stop comparing rape and abuse of women to a crime of property.

Also, let's not forget that there still is a massive stigma around being a single mum, being a single mum on benefits,getting divorced, having children with more than one man etc. Women losing friends,being left out , looked at with suspicion and distrust because they are now being single or "looking for a male role model for their child". Being told it was their choice to be a single parent if they struggle,moan or complain against discriminatory policies.

If the abuse is not physical(and sometimes even when it is)then the "grass is greener", there must be something wrong with her, she's hard work/difficult/never happy, she should work on her marriage and do this ,that or the other.

What did you do...?But what happened first...?But why...? But why didn't you..? Next time just... Just talk to him... Go to couple's therapy... Men are like that.. He just loves you/is worried about you... He's just stressed...

It starts young with boys will be boys, he hit you/pulled your hair/teasing you because he likes you, boys are more boisterous, have the nice quiet girl sot next to the badly behaved boy because she's a calming influence, cover yourself up you don't want to be distracting boys, watch beauty and the beast what a delightful story,he was nice after all..never judge a book about it's cover, adjust your behaviour and they'll be nicer to you and many many more.

Let's face it, as a society we're making it very easy for abusers to keep their victim trapped.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

You are talking about the societal pressure which is very hard to bear. It is. But actually, the choice is quite simple. Indeed it is the choice an abusive man gives you every time - and he enjoys it - the choice is to follow the truth, leave and be free, or lie to yourself, to others, and stay.

That is the choice you are given. At the same time, it escalates, so the entitlement of the abuser and the danger increases. Abusers enjoy seeing their victims mess their own minds up in staying. It is part of the fun.

We really do need to start educating in schools as to what DV and DA looks like.

Because there is nowhere to go, only the streets. You have no support, no money, no job, no family or friends who can help. Nowhere/no-one to keep your beloved pets safe if you leave.
Refuge space hard to come by and even then only temporary, especially if no DC involved.

Even if you could leave, he's always home anyway and moving out while he's there would be impossible.

*How many times is she meant to alert the authorities before he was was arrested and locked up?

How many times did she have to get her face smashed in before he was imprisoned?*

He was.
In 2008.

Don't know the term.

Their relationship continued.

We don't know what support she got or didn't get to leave it and stay left then, all we know is it continued and apparently with more children.

He inflicted the injuries that killed her within 90 seconds, that's how long the police/ambulance had to get there.

She should not have been there or he should not have been there. Yes, he could possibly still have sought her out and murdered her elsewhere, but it would not have been as easy.

She could have been somewhere unknown with a panic button. (And not been easy to get access to).

Because it's not as cut and dry as it sounds. I've been in an abusive relationship-not physical it was mental. Very hard to get out of and very draining. Mainly name calling and shouting at me with spit flying in every direction.
It's so hard and emotionally wearing. I used to think "it must be me" "it's me that makes him that way"

How many time did she have to get her face smashed in before he was imprisoned? I know he was imprisoned but how many times did she have to call the police and end up in hospital before he was imprisoned?

You know absolutely nothing, nada, about domestic abuse. I can tell that because of your continuous simplified responses to a very complex issue.

The most dangerous time for a woman who is being abused is when she has left and the first year after leaving. You obviously didn't know that or you wouldn't keep pointing your finger at women and saying 'Well, if they just left, they'd be alive.' They DO leave. She have broken up with him, yet again. Half of all women murdered by an abuser, are killed AFTER leaving - so stop making these ridiculous assertions.

@Vodkacranberryplease

Just to say (& I have experience of this) Maori communities are definitely more violent than others. Violence is part of a childs unbringing, the children, women & men are all violent. Obviously not ALL & a great many Maori live perfectly normal & uneventful lives - but if they live in a Maori community violence is acceptable & normal, & this has always been the case.

The Maori gangs are really bad - they make the ones here look like small children. To even get into one you have to rape or kill someone.

I had a Maori friend as a child who we would consider having a very good upbringing (better than mine!) but she was the exception. I had a part Maori boyfriend again from a very good background. Both really stood out though as they were the exception not the rule.

But in NZ its probably no coincidence that their justice system is one of the most lenient & socially progressive in the world & has been for some time. Their crime stats especially for violent crime are appalling because they are just one big socialist experiment. I feel safer in London frankly.

This is why I directly addressed the "he's obviously a Maori" comment from earlier and this is how it goes in an unhelpful "that's just how they are" direction - which is one of the biggest impediments to getting the public pressure needed to deal to the issue. "That's just them, what can we do? Nothing to do. They're just like that. Ah well, so sad." And so it goes.

Ironically I've had the most openly backward and offensive comments about Maori here in the UK.

It's not true that the law can protect all DV victims, whether she has the tools to access it or not. Not in England anyway. I know Scotland has better protections. Better support services too.

Legally a woman without children under 18 has no guarantee of a safe home. The law's changing but hasn't yet. There is no legal protection for these women, which includes many disabled and long-term ill women. I'm actually trying to conceive. It's unlikely at my age and in my health but aside from desperately wanting to be a mother, it's also my only way out really. Only safe way out. The alternatives are violence or street homelessness/mixed purpose often mixed sex hostels (including sometimes violent fellow residents). If I succeed in getting pregnant, the council will have to house me. No need to even mention DV in fact.

@GilbertMarkham you ask whst can be done to enable women to leave. We need to reintroduce housing benefit (that covers market rents), make it illegal for landlords (or mortgage providers/insurers) to refuse a home to benefit or low income tenants, and increase social housing.

If women had safe homes to go to, more would leave. I mean safe btw. Not a dodgy dirty dangerous b&b or hostel.

Also enough money to live on without suffering the humiliation and continued lack of agency by having to go to a food bank.

It's not really too much to ask. It's not the same as demanding luxury. Just a basic level of safety and dignity that would enable you to try to rebuild your life. A safety net.

We also need to end localism.
Many refuges are only funded to take local residents. Yet women are often safer leaving the area, going far away in some cases.

We need the same national standard and level of support for a DV support services. It's very varied. Where I live, one service has a three week waiting list. I went to the other several years ago. They told me to go to the police but offered no support or adult social services (who have refused to help and wouldn't even let me speak to a female staff member). They told me they didn't help with housing. How do women leave with no safe place to go?

For so long I was persuaded that it was all me. My fear of getting help, of getting him into trouble, of what he'd do to me or himself if I went to an official source of help. In the end nothing happened at all. Including no help. My GP has been so kind and someone (the only person in RL) I can talk to. Beyond that, nothing. I was referred to a care coordinator who has 'signposted' me to telephone numbers. Of places I've already tried. No-one actually seems to care or want to help. I've had gatekeeping from both support services and council housing departments, every service trying to refer me to the others. DV place says call adult social care. Social services say call MH. MH services say call DV places. Round in circles. It breaks you. I'm already pretty broken after years of violent abuse. Trying and failing to get support is almost worse.

For those who know, what is the general attitude/opinion in Maori communities in regards to single mothers/leaving a partner/women living on their own?

Identifying what has failed her is not simple.

I've already repeatedly pointed out the flaws in banning the men from going into the vicinity of the women; how you'd ever detect and enforce that if the women weren't 100% on board .. which due to the nature of relationships and abuse is often not the case for a long time.

Then what to do about children. Current laws would have to change to either completely denying access to the father (including for abuse of any sort because some murderers have been abusive but not assaulted the woman before) or facilitating access with the mum totally uninvolved.