Domestic Abuse - Why Do Women Put Up With It?

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I don't usually read the Mirror, this story of a mother of 8, has really made me upset.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/mum-eight-beaten-death-paving-22504713?utm_source=mirror_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=EM_Mirror_Nletter_DailyNews_News_smallteaser_Image_Story&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter&ccid=397482

In my own case (and this was some 30 years ago now) it was because I had no financial independence of my own, nor any family in this country to flee to. I also had low self-esteem and believed at least some of it was down to me, although it still felt wrong. I suffered mainly mental abuse, so a constant drip-drip of 'you're useless' etc. But I still clung on to the false hope that things would get better! Very stupid I know, and it took 5 years for me to finally be able to seize a chance to get away. I had no children to complicate the issue.

I have since found another wonderful partner and we've been happily together for over 20 years.

On the alternative question;

• Desire/compulsion for control and dominance.

• View of a partner as a possession.

• Views about genders/relationships/roles

• these may be exacerbated by personality disorders, and substance abuse - while it is not a cause - results in more severe attacks (according to stats).

• (My opinion) getting enjoyment/a high from aggression, violence .. and one that is safe for them.

While some think it is learned behaviour and values, and therefore theoretically could be unlearned; many acknowledge this rarely happens.

I'd also say that done if it may be learned values and behaviour , but it also seems to me to be naturally ingrained primitive behaviour (obviously more present in others) related to dominance. Dominance for sexual exclusively, dominance for resources etc. I think the same about aggressive and predatory sexual behaviour. It's no.coincjdence that the vast vast majority of violent offenders and sex offenders are men. They're on a scale obviously but they will sadly probably always exist. Of course we should try to educate values, respect etc but i wonder about the success.

*obviously more present in some than others

I'm guessing that aggressive, controlling, possessive mate acquisition and control was quite a successful reproductive strategy - esp.given studies say only the minority of men got to reproduce and pass on their genes. You could say it's counter productive if the male ends up killing his mate .. but from an extremely cold, functional, evolutionary perspective; maybe he doesn't really care if he's already passed in his genes. His offspring will probably survive (if not breast milk dependant infants, even then a other woman might bf them) and he can move into another mate (probably in a different area from where he killed his first mate so they're not aware). He's probably not scared enough by possible retribution by her family members .. only a male as young and strong as him would be a threat. And if it's not uncommon for males to be aggressive and violent to females, any male relatives may not even go after him.

I remember an episode of Mary Beard's Rome where she found an inscription on s memorial to a young woman whose family was just about well off enough to pay for one; saying that her husband had killed her.

This is a tale as old as time.

Posters think it's victim blaming to ask (and see if we can change why she was still in his vicinity Inc why she wasn't helped to not be) but I see it as necessary - because there will always be men like this, and unless we get a change in the law to lock them up for life after their first recorded assault (which seems shall we say rather unlike, not to mention that some men do not assault before she tries to leave) we have to see what we can do to prevent women being in that situation.

In some cases they will still seek out a d hurt and kill women who are not in their vicinity, yes .. but being in their vicinity particularly in the same household; dies seem to raise the odds.

*does

Because maybe having difficulty leaving is part of being abused? For fucks sake.

I think that both are legitimate questions, although rather than asking “why do women stay?” We should be asking “how do we equip women to recognise abuse and leave abusive relationships for good. How do we equip women to stay away from their abuser after they’ve got out and not go back an estimated nine times before leaving for good?”

These are the things we can change, Whereas abusive bastards will always be abusive bastards, so if we can’t change them, we must learn to conquer them.

There will always be abusers. And there will always be some women who leave, and others who don’t. It’s not victim blaming to examine how we can make it easier for women to come forward and then to leave. They’re not wrong for staying, but leaving is the right thing to do. Iyswim.

There is also the issue that the "authorities" and we, as women/people do tend to not believe or anticipatr that the worst could happen. I think everyone has a tendency to think that sooner or later he'll move on (possibly to a new victim, which is a whole other subject) and will be unlikely to seriously injure or kill.

And in many cases of violence, abuse, coercion etc. (the majority?) that is the case. But we're blinded by that to think it's very unlikely to happen and therefore not take extreme measures to avoid him.

The law has a lot of tools to help women.

But I don’t think you need more changes. You need to have intensive psychological support for women, to build them up do they can articulate abuse and better protect their interests.

Abusers are all about invasive behaviour, you have to start changing that effect.

the law has lots of tools but women cannot access them without support. So its pointless. Unless you are lucky.

*We should be asking “how do we equip women to recognise abuse and leave abusive relationships for good. How do we equip women to stay away from their abuser after they’ve got out and not go back an estimated nine times before leaving for good?”

These are the things we can change, Whereas abusive bastards will always be abusive bastards, so if we can’t change them, we must learn to conquer them.*

Agree 100%.

We also need to get women and the authorities who are their only recourse to recognise the risk in these situations. That the worst may not always happen, but it could.

thats what the lighthouse project is attempting to do. It doesn't get enough publicity

how do we equip women to recognise abuse and leave abusive relationships for good. How do we equip women to stay away from their abuser after they’ve got out and not go back an estimated nine times before leaving for good?

Which yet again, puts the onus on women to avoid abuse, just as the onus has always been on women to avoid rape. Of course it's victim blaming.

If you had done this, this wouldn't have happened, is victim blaming.

If you hadn't worn a short skirt/a thong/gone out late/drunk too much/taken drugs...this wouldn't have happened to you.

If you recognised red flags/got out as soon as he began controlling you/at the first slap/hadn't had kids with him...this wouldn't have happened to you.

That narrative needs to change as it fills women with shame and prevents them from telling anyone or leaving.

This woman's death could have been avoided if she had had appropriate support and those children wouldn't be traumatised for life if they'd had appropriate support.

A man who has been violently abusing his partner for years, shouldn't have been released back into society as abusive men don't stop abusing.

Maori women are three times more likely to be murdered by an intimate partner than their white counterparts; why wasn't this taken into account over the 18 years they were together? Why wasn't she protected from him and why weren't her children protected from him? Where was the specialist support? No one gave a shit and this is the result.

Which yet again, puts the onus on women to avoid abuse, just as the onus has always been on women to avoid rape. Of course it's victim blaming. no, it isn’t. It’s precisely this attitude that we must never give women the tools to recognise the abuse and feel able to leave that leads more women to be abused.

At the end of the day some women do stay in abusive relationships, and do go back multiple times. In an ideal world abusers wouldn’t exist, but they do. The abuser is responsible for the abuse, but the victim should feel able to use the tools at their disposal to be able to leave. And while people like you keep playing the “but it’s victim blaming” card, women don’t feel equipped to do so, because you are putting out the message that there’s nothing they can do, and that it’s all the man’s fault (which it is) so they should put up with it.

Do you go out and leave the front door open because to suggest you lock it is victim blaming if you are burgled?

Do you leave your iPad on the back seat of the car because if someone breaks into the car then it’s victim blaming if the iPad is stolen?

Somehow we seem to attribute this victim blaming stereotype to situations where people are in difficult situations which they should feel equipped to leave, but suggesting they should leave is victim blaming, so instead we say nothing, and they stay, and then they end up murdered as a result, when actually, they could have been persuaded to leave.

If a woman is murdered by her partner then she is not responsible. But she can find ways out if these ways are open to her.

Telling people it’s “victim blaming” is a dangerous road to go down when we do want women to be able to leave these relationships.

There are lots and i mean lots of examples on this thread of women who did leave, and were murdered.

But its easier to blame the women than the broken system supposed to protect

You are making women responsible for their own abuse.

Bore off with your victim blaming bull shit.

For me, because there was next to no physical abuse and a lot of happy times, for years I didn't think it was an abusive relationship. Overlooked the times I was verbally abused, screamed and spat at, the times I used to pretend to be asleep to avoid the rage because he'd lost his keys and was threatening to smash the house up. The temper tantrums when he wanted to do something or go somewhere and I didn't. The times we'd have plans and he'd dump me at the last minute for his mates. The time he forced me sobbing into a freezing cold shower when I was ill because he'd read somewhere it was good for colds. The time one of our mutual friends told me she could see I was scared of him and wtf was I doing with my life. The debt I'd gotten into because of the lifestyle he liked to live.

I used to play it down as our relationship being passionate/volatile, or him being a bit hot headed. He point blank refused to move out of the house, which was legally mine, and said he'd kill me if I left (and then the next day told me he was joking, ha bloody ha). I finally left when I didn't actually care if I lost the house, and every penny I had, or if he did kill me. I had no children, a high paying job and supportive friends and family. It was still the hardest thing I've ever done, I can't imagine how hard it is for other women in less fortunate circumstances. He's told me since he never thought I had the balls to leave him. They count on that.

In my specific case I think my failure to recognise the situation and act earlier was to do with my upbringing, I simply wasn't given the self esteem, knowledge or the tools by my parents, and even when I made them aware of how things were they simply sat back and said/did nothing. I don't have daughters but if I did I'd make damn well sure they were better equipped than I was.

@AlternativePerspective did you miss all the stories where women have left and still were murdered? Or the stories where children were killed or severely injured during the father's contact time?

Or the data provided by the 2018 census where the majority of women were killed when they were taking steps to leave/within a month of leaving?

I always see this bullshit trotted out, particularly in threads about rape.

Our bodies are not something we can lock away, give to someone else to look after,put in a safe.

Unless you expect women once they leave to never leave the house and live in a fortress then women will still be killed.

Because too much focus is on what the woman did,what she could do,what she should do and not enough on the men that kill, on police response, on the justice system, on the family court system, on the support that is available and what form it takes.

Agree with the other poster. There is help out there but part of being abused is being cut off from it, that’s what abuse is. Divide and conquer.

The night in shining armour and the prison guard are two of the same people. They go back because they need the very person who has caused the need in them. You can’t blame women for that.

@Fightingback16

That may be your truth but it certainly is not mine.

Help is not reliably out there at all and not all women go back.

Nonsense

Because there is nowhere to go, only the streets. You have no support, no money, no job, no family or friends who can help. Nowhere/no-one to keep your beloved pets safe if you leave.
Refuge space hard to come by and even then only temporary, especially if no DC involved.

Even if you could leave, he's always home anyway and moving out while he's there would be impossible.

*You are making women responsible for their own abuse.

Bore off with your victim blaming bull shit.*

Good to see you can understand and make nuanced arguments.

@GilbertMarkham Thanks, it's a gift.