Need help with DD and her mental health?

[Userandmuser]

I am very confused right now. My DD18 has always been difficult and an angry person towards me and it’s getting a lot worse. I’m not an angel or perfect and I tend to bite back sometimes when I am tired or had too much of it. I also try to make peace and find resolutions too and have tried to get her help.

Lockdown has not helped the situation she is frustrated all the time although she is quite independent she is going though a phase where she really really hates me. I really do not know what is real or not anymore and if she needs help or if she is punishing me to an extreme level.

When she is unhappy with me I am often unaware there is a problem or I have done anything and she will begin to verbally attack me, this starts off with small jabs and jibes and comments and escalates to shouting. The whole time I am trying to listen, de-escalate and not fight back with her but to diffuse, talk and calm down with firm boundaries.

Whenever I challenge her to explain herself (even when she is calm) so I can understand the issue she will leave the discussion and refuse to engage anymore - so I am not getting anywhere and nothing is ever discussed or resolved. When I tell her something is not true, this makes her more angry.

Last night I saw my boyfriend. DD will not allow my boyfriend to come to our house when she is home so I went out as I do not want to fight over it. DD does not know him but he is a nice man. I had not seen him since Saturday - I see him once or twice a week max. The whole rest of the week I am at work or at home. DD was not home all day (I had worked from home) as she was out at the beach. DD was very angry I was not at home that evening although I had let her know about it, and she wasn’t home till late.

Today started off that I text her at 8.30am in the morning from work to ask her about her course results from college and to let me know when she got them. She usually has her phone on silent all the time. I sent it before a meeting in case she got them early and as a ‘good luck’ message. She was asleep and angry that the message woke her up. She sent some angry texts. She got the results, we discussed it on text, I was happy for her and said I was proud and then she changed the subject to ask me what was for dinner. DD refuses to cook food and was then angry about dinner and that I might cook something she doesn’t like.

Tonight I came home from a long day at work with a headache. She did not come downstairs to say hi as she was in the shower. I went upstairs to lie on my bed and she came in to me angry I had not spoken to her about her results when I got home. I apologised and tried to talk to her which she shut down and left. I nodded off as I had a headache and was tired, with the intention to get up and cook dinner in a while.

DD has come into my room, screamed at me for being asleep, marched around the house shouting, began to cook dinner for herself but cooked half of it then threw it all in the bin.

The reasons for being angry with me:

• I haven’t been home for 3 days. This is not even true in any way - I have either been working or at home since Saturday. Or working from home. I went out once last night.

• I never cook anything. As DD never cooks, I’ve cooked everything for 18 years

• I never do any housework and she does everything - this is also so untrue. She does very little

• I never asked her about college and showed no interest. Which I did

• All I care about is boyfriend and I keep trying to make her meet him. Also not true. And it was ok for him to kindly put her TV on the wall last month but then she demanded he leave immediately

• it was ok to wake me up because I ‘shake her awake’ every morning when I go to work. This does not happen

I’m worried about these things she accuses me of, because she seems to really believe they are true and is so angry about them and they are not reality. I am confused over whether she really believes them to be true? And she won’t talk about them with me when I try to get to the bottom of it or find a resolution.

I am sitting in my car in the rain because I couldn’t sleep my headache off, she threw all the food away I could have cooked and then accused me of these things and I don’t know what to do.

She is deeply insecure. Fear and anxiety drive all of her behaviours. She can’t read the world. She can’t read her own emotions. Internally she is in chaos out of control so she tries to control her external world - but as you have both found this is futile because her demanding she does no chores / gets x designer makeup / you don’t leave the house - doesn’t satisfy her or deal her emotional pain of fear, confusion and anxiety.

It’s good that you have highlighted that issues you had, beyond your control, have had impact - they will have - but that doesn’t make you to “blame” - there should be no guilt - that is just a drag anchor.

This makes so much sense. She’s certainly more content when she is in control of everything. I have to stop seeing this as her not trusting me though, I think I have wasted too much time trying to gain her trust

www.verywellmind.com/borderline-personality-disorder-symptoms-425175

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Expected by almost everyone to sacrifice your own MH to parent a child who is no longer technically a child. 'Not allowed' to disengage or step back but hated by her for being involved.

Needing her to communicate but her PD (because I think it probably is BPD now called something else - emotionally unstable pd I think) won't allow it. Though I think PDs start in adolescence and things like ASD and ADHD are present from age 2 or so if that helps?

Add to that your own abusive childhood and marriage. An expensive young person who refuses to see that you are not rich because of her father. An nhs that cant help those who won't ask for help. Invalidating comments here and from family.

Two surgeries that end up with you blaming yourself and a child that's even worse through no fault of yours. With your arsehole parents putting the boot in even more.

How do you pick your way through this on your own without specialist knowledge? I actually think you have done a pretty great job. You are not 'inconsistent' you are on your own doing the impossible.

She may be immature but if she can't stop abusing you and won't get help she's old enough to be part of the world. I couldn't cook or clean when I was 17 and left. But they muscle through. It's not rejection it's her gaining her freedom from an environment she's clearly very uncomfortable with.

I’ve thought about BPD but I am not sure she has the reckless behaviour side, she would not take a risk. And I don’t think she gets any pleasure from the control she just does it to feel less out of control and restore order to her likes. She is impulsive though with things she says but she doesn’t seem to do things to gain excitement or pleasure. She is afraid of danger and anything that’s not within her rigid view. She also doesn’t swing from overly loving and affectionate to angry, it’s more that the affectionate person is locked away behind the angry person! I don’t know if this makes sense! She doesn’t have mood swings, she just gets very very upset when things are not the way she wants them to be. At most other times she is calm and collected, until something goes wrong.

She has a routine and she gets annoyed with herself if she doesn’t do the routine every day. She also exercises the same exercises every day

Sorry I meant to say muddle through!

Also she could well have a mix of things. BPD (I'm going to say highly likely. Very very very difficult PD to live with) and something else.

OP.. like you I had a very abusive childhood. I grew into a people pleaser and had very screwed up relationships with very screwed up men because my boundaries were appalling. I tried to fix things by being accommodating and kind, etc.... I was walked all over and totally disrespected. Your kids have grown up seeing and hearing you being disrespected and dehumanised by their father. You haven’t really let them grow up and accept you as a separate human being who is deserving of a happy adult social life - not simply Rosie the Robot who is there to meet their needs. Loving them involves allowing them to grow up and be independent - even if it means skipping a meal, or being angry with you because you are going out for dinner. (Or not buying them a phone.) You ARE allowed to be angry and resentful with them when their behaviour is shit. It doesn’t mean that you don’t love them. It means that they are facing the natural consequence of their behaviour. If you don’t react authentically, you’re raising adult toddlers. You might actually need to tell her that you have done her a disservice by not teaching her to face the true reactions of people when she has behaved badly.

Yes parenting is a thankless task. It's good to acknowledge this as every other expectation we have is going to crushed. Which you are experiencing now.
She isn't going to like you OP, that's ok too, I doubt you like her all the time either the way she is behaving. This is also ok. We don't have to like each other all the time, we do have to understand that we can't control each other, that is such an important life lesson. Maybe it's the best thing that this is coming up now, otherwise she would go through her whole life with the mistaken belief that her actions can bear no consequence and she can get moody to get her own way. That's no way to live. Good luck with accessing support for her. I think you should return to therapy as well to regain and hold your boundaries around her.

Ok that makes sense. ASD. I know adhd snd that's not it. Rigidity is very much an ASD thing.

I have a niece with this (we think). She's had a BPD diagnosis because of her explosions but she's not. She's not nasty or controlling (to others) or reckless. She's a lovely lovely girl but has anorexia and has gone absolutely batshit in the past when something (food) has been out of her control. She's keen to control her environment but not people. Loves her expensive makeup! Doesn't have stacks of girl friends as I think she finds them a little hard to understand at times but is a loving person. Has had very good friends though and still does.

She has TWO loving parents who she's almost worn down and her mum is a FANTASTIC mum from a fantastic family and she has very much been at her wits end. So if that's what it can do to two well dupported parents you have no chance.

She is in the adult MH system because of her anorexia. They have medicated her - not sure how it's working. She has a part time job (she got herself!) and is going to uni to stay in halls. Same city as parents but living away. They ALL can not wait.

When I have looked before and talked to CAMHS I think as she didn’t seem to fit in any boxes and just angry at me, it looked like it was all my parenting! Same to my family. They see DD and think oh she’s fine. But I can tell from her body language and speech when she isn’t fine, but she’s aware enough of the expectation of how you should behave around other people and can suck it all in for a while. (unless something drastic happens and she may explode). It always felt like after school or going to her dads she kind of had been holding it all in till she saw me then it would all fly out 100mph.

I did look at PDA type of autism the last few days and it fits a lot better than BPD.

Very much agree with the PP on this page. This thread has been full of some really shitty comments blaming you overtly and covertly and you don't deserve it. You have spent so much time justifying yourself which is just more of the same.

You don't deserve it. You are a fantastic person and a great mother in an unbearably shitty situation

Things she does that I think are her little quirks but clearly make her feel better or sometimes worse

• strong feelings about doors being locked at night
• constantly asking if someone has been in her bedroom when she isn’t there (we haven’t)
• she over feeds the dog because she worries he might get hungry at any time
• she is afraid of animals to be honest as they are unpredictable but after 2 years with a dog, she absolutely adores him and worries about him all the time. She never even looks at the cat and doesn’t like her
• you can’t help her with a task, she has to do it alone her way
• germs and things stress her out
• hospitals scare her
• the news scares her and she will repeat things she’s read
• she doesn’t understand books or texts easily and needs a lot of explaining about context of things written down
• she can’t really spell very well
• she has a harsh verbal tone most of the time
• she is obsessed with her weight, her clothes and hair
• she is repetitive to talk to sometimes
• she seems to store information about something that happened in 2008 and then throw it at you in an argument
• she has an amazing memory
• she doesn’t really like girls and she can fall out with them as she can come across as mean
• Other DC says that at school DD was known by everyone as being ‘scary’ from her demeanour
• she thinks she is always right
• she hears words you haven’t even said when you speak
• she can’t explain things very well
• she does have a sense of humour but I would say it’s unique
• she can’t play games with other people without getting annoyed
• she is very particular about her belongings
• she has to do things the same way every day

Yeah OP my niece doesn't have a clear diagnosis either. But BPD doesn't fit. I think ASD is so new to people especially in girls. It might help to read some of the US sources. They are far far ahead of us in this area. If it's anything like adhd (there is some overlap) then shame plays a big part. Shame drives very powerful emotions and very uncontrollable emotions.

I will say that she clearly feels safe with you, no consolation I know when you are the punching bag. But she doesn't want to 'have something wrong with her' and it's you that suffers. Eventually she will have to fly the nest and learn to cope - then what? At 18 she's old enough to start to take responsibility for her behaviour all the time.

She had to understand that like it or not she's not NT and her life will always be a struggle but that if she gets help now it will be a lot less of a struggle.

She also needs to know that you love her very much but because she is an adult your ability to help her isn't there any more. You have no power to get her to get help. So she's got to do it herself but you will support her in it. Won't you won't and can't support her in is her abuse of you. That she doesn't get to do.

Ok ASD. She needs to learn how to behave. I was reading about this the other day... let me see if I can remember. It's a form of dialectical behaviour therapy (like cbt) which teaches in group therapy how to behave.

She knows she's different and she feels like she can't be normal. But she can be more normal - however has to learn.

Prob dyslexia which is often co morbid with adhd and maybe ASD (not sure).

But her good points are:

She loves that dog. She knows how to express this to him too. She loves small children. She’s generous and thoughtful on people’s birthdays, just frustrating no other times of the year it feels 😂. When she will do a task (in her own time!) she often does it very very well. She’s actually quite good with money. You will get an honest answer from her if you want one. She can be very funny and fun. She enjoys listening to music and that seems to calm her down. She doesn’t really like to see other people upset but doesn’t know how to handle that.

It sounds to me that she has very clear cut ideas of roles also. You are the mother and your role is to do this, this, this and this... she doesn’t seem to have understood that as she has grown up, your role has evolved and she should have become more independent and allowed you to become more so as well. This needs to be spelled out very clearly. Not as an act of rejection, but as an act of love - to enable her to live as a happy, functioning adult.

@Vodkacranberryplease

I’m not usually one for online diagnosis but it does seem to fit. Does anyone have any experience with someone finding this out? It’s not like she has grown up with a diagnosis so to get one, how would this feel to her if she did get one? I know we have adult ASD service and I think this should be ruled out at least. I suppose they would be good at explaining it all? I don’t have enough experience or understanding and need to do a lot more reading!

When she was little she was very fussy with food and also labels in clothes touching her. Nursery and primary she seemed to manage ok, but secondary school hit her very hard (large and overwhelming) and she disengaged pretty quickly.

Userandmuser, it's good that you've identified the things that you feel guilty about. Ill health is beyond our control, and we do the best we can in the situation we find ourselves in. Would you feel comfortable telling your daughter what you've told me? This might come as a relief for her.

I suspect she felt very concerned about you when you were ill. Being a child she would have had great difficulty in expressing those feelings. It does sound as if there was no one for her to confide in, be it your family, her father or an outside source.

It feels to me as if she has kept a great deal bottled up. That is why she is so angry with you. I think she has so much to say, but there is something getting in the way of saying how she really feels, so instead she resorts to anger and antagonism. As you said, it probably is very scary for her to talk about her feelings.

The thing that stands out for me is her harsh verbal tone and 'scaryiness' along with thinking she is right and needing to win games (niece was awful at monopoly apparently!)

This is training. The kind they do in group therapy.

Too many a thrown board game! We got uno over lockdown and she’s very good at it, but you can’t play it to the end because she will have got cross with you or got annoyed about breaking rules or perceived cheating. I believe she plays online games against a bot and she doesn’t get as angry

She doesn’t have a very soft expression. I am not sure if she liked her reputation as scary or whether it bothered her. She certainly doesn’t have a soft tone to her voice either, I watched a home video with her when she was about 3 and I really noticed she already had it then.

I agree with tickertyboo - explaining the whys of things can never be overestimated. If you were to sit her down and in the calmest kindest way possible explain about your illness and lack of support she can get herself off the hook. She doesn't have the maturity to see that your behaviour isn't a direct reflection of her and that you are a separate person with your own needs and wants. Also if you can explain why you want and need a boyfriend while reassuring her that you aren't rejecting/deserting her.

Apologies if you have tried. You have tried everything I know.

But as you know don't give her anything she can use against you. She has your exes unpleasant bullying mixed in and this will take time to get out - and isn't your remit as it's going to take an expert. Just don't give her the ammo.

Oh I will say the suggestion for group therapy for niece has been mooted and she is having none of it. So she may take time to get help - and loving separation may be your best option.

And one more thing. No more abasing yourself to her, no more taking the blame, no more feeding her self pity or idea that you are the problem. Please.

Be calm, kind and explain things but not in a way that allows for contempt or anger. She has to get the fuck over that no matter what her diagnosis is. She can hold it together elsewhere she can fucking well do the same for you.

You love her - and you are not her doormat.

Your post breaks my heart, you really DO have the patience of a saint as a previous poster stated. I know there's some really good advice here as I did skim through the replies like some kind of family therapy or self therapy for both of you; for her to work out her anger issues and ways to cope with her feelings and for you to have a safe space to vent as well to learn some coping mechanisms to deal with her moods and in setting firm, healthy boundaries.

You sound lovely and you don't deserve to be treated by anyone the way you're being treated. Sadly even those closest to us will ultimately treat us how we allow them to treat us. My personal advice is that you establish you are no longer her emotional punching bag, and hold fast that boundary. You'll need to lead by example in this - when she starts raging out at you, it'll be hard not to lash out, but until you can get some professional help - something has got to give. I use this tactic in my relationship with my DP (granted, we have decent communication and he doesn't have anger issues BUT we're human and we all get cranky and/or snap at those we care about every now and then). Basically if I'm in a situation with my DP and we're discussing a sensitive subject and I start to feel myself getting frustrated and angry I tell him that I need to pause, and go take a walk/read a book/sit silently in another room until I calm down because I'm getting to a point where I might say something I'll regret. In his case, he admittedly has stated he doesn't know when to walk away to cool off like I do, but after almost 2 years together I can tell by his mannerisms, tone, and facial expressions when he's feeling frustrated and angry so I tell him "It looks like this conversation is becoming a little bit much for you right now, so I'll go do my own thing for a bit until you feel more comfortable talking. I love you." At first he told me it made him feel like I was running away from conflict, but I explained that I'm just pausing the conversation because if he says something he'll regret, there's a chance I'll say something I'll regret as well out of hurt/anger. Being able to have healthy arguments is such a book to ANY relationship/friendship.

So you need to start setting some healthy boundaries about what is an acceptable way to talk to each other. When you sent her that nice text and she flipped out on you for waking her up? Perfect example to say "It wasn't my intention to wake you, and I'm sorry I disturbed your sleep, but until you can talk to me in a calm manner, I won't be responding to you. I love you, but you hurt me when you talk to me like this, so I will no longer tolerate being spoken to like this, and I will no longer speak to you in any manner that isn't respectful". Then follow through with it - if it happens when you're face to face, tell her you're going to the other room to allow her to collect herself. If she follows after you, go into a room with a lock or leave the house for a little while but do not engage her while she's behaving like a tantruming toddler. This is really the only advice I can give as I've seen it work in my own life. Value yourself and your daughter. Until you can see a therapist or mediator your best bet is to adopt a anti-conflict/path of least resistance stance.

I wish you the best, and big internet hugs to you!

Ok! No I feel like I have more tools now to work with and less taking this personally