Need help with DD and her mental health?

[Userandmuser]

I am very confused right now. My DD18 has always been difficult and an angry person towards me and it’s getting a lot worse. I’m not an angel or perfect and I tend to bite back sometimes when I am tired or had too much of it. I also try to make peace and find resolutions too and have tried to get her help.

Lockdown has not helped the situation she is frustrated all the time although she is quite independent she is going though a phase where she really really hates me. I really do not know what is real or not anymore and if she needs help or if she is punishing me to an extreme level.

When she is unhappy with me I am often unaware there is a problem or I have done anything and she will begin to verbally attack me, this starts off with small jabs and jibes and comments and escalates to shouting. The whole time I am trying to listen, de-escalate and not fight back with her but to diffuse, talk and calm down with firm boundaries.

Whenever I challenge her to explain herself (even when she is calm) so I can understand the issue she will leave the discussion and refuse to engage anymore - so I am not getting anywhere and nothing is ever discussed or resolved. When I tell her something is not true, this makes her more angry.

Last night I saw my boyfriend. DD will not allow my boyfriend to come to our house when she is home so I went out as I do not want to fight over it. DD does not know him but he is a nice man. I had not seen him since Saturday - I see him once or twice a week max. The whole rest of the week I am at work or at home. DD was not home all day (I had worked from home) as she was out at the beach. DD was very angry I was not at home that evening although I had let her know about it, and she wasn’t home till late.

Today started off that I text her at 8.30am in the morning from work to ask her about her course results from college and to let me know when she got them. She usually has her phone on silent all the time. I sent it before a meeting in case she got them early and as a ‘good luck’ message. She was asleep and angry that the message woke her up. She sent some angry texts. She got the results, we discussed it on text, I was happy for her and said I was proud and then she changed the subject to ask me what was for dinner. DD refuses to cook food and was then angry about dinner and that I might cook something she doesn’t like.

Tonight I came home from a long day at work with a headache. She did not come downstairs to say hi as she was in the shower. I went upstairs to lie on my bed and she came in to me angry I had not spoken to her about her results when I got home. I apologised and tried to talk to her which she shut down and left. I nodded off as I had a headache and was tired, with the intention to get up and cook dinner in a while.

DD has come into my room, screamed at me for being asleep, marched around the house shouting, began to cook dinner for herself but cooked half of it then threw it all in the bin.

The reasons for being angry with me:

• I haven’t been home for 3 days. This is not even true in any way - I have either been working or at home since Saturday. Or working from home. I went out once last night.

• I never cook anything. As DD never cooks, I’ve cooked everything for 18 years

• I never do any housework and she does everything - this is also so untrue. She does very little

• I never asked her about college and showed no interest. Which I did

• All I care about is boyfriend and I keep trying to make her meet him. Also not true. And it was ok for him to kindly put her TV on the wall last month but then she demanded he leave immediately

• it was ok to wake me up because I ‘shake her awake’ every morning when I go to work. This does not happen

I’m worried about these things she accuses me of, because she seems to really believe they are true and is so angry about them and they are not reality. I am confused over whether she really believes them to be true? And she won’t talk about them with me when I try to get to the bottom of it or find a resolution.

I am sitting in my car in the rain because I couldn’t sleep my headache off, she threw all the food away I could have cooked and then accused me of these things and I don’t know what to do.

The challenges she has with transitions and social situations external to the home as well as the behaviour issues as a young child might suggest something underlying that so maybe she struggles to cope.

This stress might manifests as fear, panic and then anxiety that she can’t articulate, problem solve or address herself in moment in the outside world so she saves it all up for you and by then the fear and anxiety has escalated to anger. And if she is then presenting and behaving angry to you it’s v to connect properly and give her the emotional in put she needs as we need to be cautious / defensive in response to anger - when really we need to soothe the underlying fear and panic. Also maybe just listening and validating her emotions and feelings rather than jumping (understandably) to problem solving for her might help. She might just want to be heard in the first instance - once she has vented, she might be calmer and maybe you could ask what does she think are her options in any situation. Helping her think for herself.

Things turned ugly today. It felt like she colluded with her sibling (who I have a stable relationship with) to get information about me to twist and throw at me. I was shocked at my other child for providing the ammo knowingly (and being used like that) and having seen the texts between them it upset me to see that they speak about me this way but other child speaks to me like nothing is wrong even when I ask. What a mess. I have just said to the other child I would prefer they talk directly to me rather than involve DD18 as it just makes things messier and to tell me if there is an issue and we can discuss it. If this is a private conversation between them that is fine but this felt like an attack situation. I was out and got a barrage of accusatory texts from DD18 and it was really difficult and caused a lot of conflict

DD18 has had another crying meltdown and told me how much she hates me/hates me for hating her. She’s hurt by 10000 perceived injustices and said she would move to her DF’s. She won’t tell me exactly what I have done or what the issue is apart from clearly I hate her and she hates me. I don’t hate her.

I was honest and said that all the awful things she has said/done have pushed me away and I am struggling to keep trying over and over only to get all this hate and anger thrown at me. I am only human and can only take so much of it. I am prepared to try if she will apologise for all the horrible things and get some help. She tried to leave the conversation over and over to escape actually dealing with it - her usual tactic is throw a grenade, detonate it and walk away.

The issue is that she is angry I have a boyfriend. She says I spend no time with her, am never home and only happy when I am with him. She says I am selfish and speak horribly to her all the time, I show no interest in her life, I don’t care about her and don’t want a relationship with her.

This is like a madness though as I have tried and tried but she probably is aware that mentally I have stopped trying as much with her and more trying to just survive each day. I think I have put up some barriers and each time she goes on a verbal attack I retreat further. I’ve run out of energy now that I am no longer raising a small child who I am trying to nurture. She says she does want mental health support so I am going to go down that road. I really think she needs it. I think she’s internally struggling horribly with herself knowing she is pushing me away and finding it traumatic that I am not chasing after her

Be prepared for her to you turn in her agreement to seek mental help.

I would start looking for a place for her to move out to op (I think you mentioned uni? But if she isnt moving away for that soon...). If she continues to stay with you, itll be you that needs the mental help.

*u-turn
Lol

Honestly? You're reaping what you've sown.

You and her father fucked up parenting and the result is a deeply traumatised young woman with no sense of safety and security and a bucketload of emotional problems.

And you want people to tell you that it's okay that you don't have to deal with it and you can leave her to drown in her emotional mess because you're over it and tired. Which on cue a lot of people are because its mumsnet.

If she has never cooked a meal in 18 years its because you have failed to teach her in an appropriate way as she grew up how to take adult responsibility etc.

But I have seen this play out on mumsnet many times and rare is the parent who truly takes responsibilty for the emotional problems of what is still a very young person.

No I don’t need people to tell me is ok. I feel like I have done a terrible job of everything so far and this will all fall on my head. It already has hasn’t it.

I think I wanted to talk to people who are external and don’t know us. Perhaps someone who has a similar experience and can give me some hope? I am struggling and not as strong as I wish I was or I should be.

I did the best I thought I could at the time (alone, as ex has had very very little input into raising the children on a day to day practical level). I shouldn’t have had children with him although I am glad I did and I have no regrets at being a parent and never will.

I think you see on Mumsnet ‘day after day’ women who are left to raise children with little to no support from the fathers, family or the wider society (CAMHS when I have asked for help) and it’s fucking fucking hard. I was brought up by parents who were in the generation of using physical punishment and it was totally acceptable to do so. It’s hard to come out of that a fully rounded individual, not everyone does. I did not. I’ve never had a live in partner in 14 years so I have been alone with them.

You don’t see dads on these forums tearing their hair out about their relationships and coping with their DC because this is left to women in the main part.

I think I got the basics right - clean, fed, nice home, opportunities, they got an education. I’ve attempted to teach them life skills - they are good at most other things and independent except for cooking, which she refuses to do.

I’m not going to fight you either @FFSFFSFFS I have enough of that at home but thank you for your insightful thoughts on the matter

Userandmuser I am sorry that you have had v tough day. It seems v volatile in your home right now. I hope peace and calm can be restored soon.

However it is really great that she has responded positively to your encouragement to seek MH support. That’s a v big win in this situation. Look on her with compassion, she is bubbling over with internal turmoil which erupts in to rage.

You have a really good handle on her emotional state from your posts here. You suspect that there maybe something going on bigger than you can handle - and you recognise that even if she is on the body of a young woman of 18 - emotionally she has the skills of an anxious and scared 7 year old. Respond to that 7 year old little girl.

It is torturous, I have been there. Maybe read up on supporting anxiety/ASD traits in girls whilst you wait for an appointment. There may be some lifestyle changes (sleep, routine, communication strategies, grounding exercises) that help all of you get through.

Any chance she has started drinking / smoking or is stressed with her first intimate boyfriend if things are escalating?

Can I just clarify regarding cooking that it is not the case she cannot cook. She does not want to. She has been taught. She refuses.

She isn’t drinking or smoking I see her enough to know that she isn’t and she would be too anxious to do that from what I think I gather of her anxiety

Thank you for your advice

Is she moving out for uni? It’s probably for the best

@FFSFFSFFS

Sorry I am going to ask you to clarify this thought process it is not one I have come across before. It is confusing to me.

Me: abused as child. My parents are not responsible for this now I am an adult, I am. I am responsible for addressing it (I have done and explained I have back in the thread). Parents cannot be blamed. I am blameful for some of the effects this had on me that may have influenced me as an adult. Some influences including never being abusive to my children

DD18: not abused by either parent, witnessed some emotional abuse towards me as a child, I left her father to protect her and have spent 18 years trying to address issues. DD18 is now an adult and not responsible or accountable for anything, as this is down to my bad parenting. I am fully responsible for this too.

My parents and DD - not responsible or accountable for anything

Me - responsible and accountable for everything including her fathers parenting as he has opted out

Have I got this correct? Please clarify this

I asked DD to take accountability for her actions - the verbal abuse and for this to stop. I said we can move forward if she wants to do this, genuinely. I said I was sorry for withdrawing from her and wanted to move on.

She says she’s not going to apologise to me, as you don’t ask for apologies you earn them. I have to earn my apology and right not to be verbally abused. This is how she thinks and what I am dealing with. Tonight she called me a stupid fat bitch

She's 18 - sure legally she's an adult - but she's far from being a 40 year old. She's still emotionally an adolescent who has had a crap upbringing - for which both you and her father are responsible. Something's gone wrong with her parenting.

There's are lots of different ways to be cause damage to a child which don't seem to be outright abuse.

All I'm saying is if you genuinely want to sort this out - there is no quick fix - you have to own and take responsibility for where you went wrong (and her father being a dick does not absolve you of all responsibility). It will never be resolved if you don't own that and acknowledge it.

And if your DD becomes a parent she is in turn responsible for how the impact of her parenting effects her parenting.

You will not establish a good adult relationship by demanding she behaves in an an adult and an undamaged way when she is damaged and far from an adult who has had tie to process and work through the issues her own childhood has given her.

Jeez FFS stop being so unpleasant.

Well, the unpleasant truth is that it takes an awful lot of time and effort to overcome emotional damage from a crap childhood. Turning 18 doesn't magically solve everything.

It may be unpalatable to the OP that if she wants to support her child to become emotionally stable and have a functional relationship she will need to continue to commit significant emotional resources to it - but that is the reality.

The OP herself has talked about the work she has done to overcome her own poor parenting. So - she can either choose to work with her daughter to undo the damage or leave her daughter to undo the damage on her own. Neither path will be pleasant - but she is far more likely to end up with a functional daughter and relationship with her if she accepts that it is very likely her daughters issues are because of childhood trauma and moves forward on that basis.

There are kinder and better ways to get your opinion across.

I think the OP's young daughter needs the kindness.

I don't think telling the OP he daughter needs to move out and grow up is kind.

The OP wants to be absolved.

There are potentially many interwoven layers here for the DD at play:

• an abandoning DF
• sensing, absorbing, internalising DV/EA as a baby
• breakdown of her family
• her DF building another family
• her DF bad demonising her DM
• her DF EA her but she is not aware
• her DM struggling to cope due to EA
• her DM struggling to cope due to her own poor parenting wounds and inadequate blueprint
• highly likely struggling to cope with an undiagnosed underlying SEN / NT issue.

The OP has addressed as many of these as she can over many years with many interventions. Blame is irrelevant. She has taken on maybe too much responsibility and tried to hard for far too long - professional help is needed here. I don’t think OP is dealing with “normal” - her other DC is not similarly affected - the standard every day parenting practices are not working in this situation. Something different is needed. The OP can’t know what this is without expert / professional diagnosis and support.

How is asking her to move out a bad thing?

Most kids in shitty households are advised by school mentors etc to wait for uni then leave and never look back

She’ll be safely helped into moving out by student finance and her university, where she’ll be in a student bubble as opposed to just thrown in the deep end of dark adult life. She’ll probably enjoy it, just like most of us who moved out for university did. Especially as there’s constant issues at home.

This article might be useful
www.verywellmind.com/emotionally-invalidating-environment-425303

She isn’t going to uni, she goes to a local college

She has always stayed with me and not DF as he has not provided her with the security and option to do so. I can’t influence this. She doesn’t have the financial resources to move out and I do not want to give up - I’m tired, I’m struggling but I am not washing my hands of her by a long shot. The whole post was seeking help for her MH, not looking for ways to get rid of her.

All I can influence is what happens here in my house. And I refuse to take on all of the burden and responsibility for things I can’t even control or influence. I take full responsibility for those things that do relate to me and my parenting - but part of my job is to teach DD to take some accountability for her actions, they have consequences. I would be a terrible parent if I did not. You can’t tell me on one hand that I have failed her by not making her cook, and on the other hand I can’t expect her to face consequences for her actions and choices. She’s an adult - this is something you learn as an adult. Verbally abusing me is not an effective way of expressing her issues

This is not about my parents, but I have not had the benefit of a wider support system that many families do - a loving close extended family and a partner. I don’t have the resources to draw any support from and neither does DD. Isolation of single mothers who have had EA is not something I am going to be blamed for finding it hard. It’s had an impact on DD but not my other child.

I am a human, being a parent doesn’t make me a flawless super human. You don’t turn all of your feelings and emotions off to bring up your DC.

Posting here to try to short sharp shock me into whatever it is you are trying to do, defending myself to a stranger for my failings is not something I should be to investing my energy in to. Having had counselling myself I have never received such muddled weird ‘advice’ it doesn’t really make any sense to me and your subsequent posting still didn’t make sense. Are you carrying round some unresolved anger about your own childhood you are projecting onto me? I’m not here with my story to make you feel better about yours

She has not had a crap upbringing with me. I’ve been with her and sibling on my own since she was 4yo. Her sibling does not feel that the upbringing was crap.

She has had a nice loving stable home with me and her sibling and frequent contact with her DF. She seems to accept his parenting style and not challenge it - she clearly gets something from him, even if he never turns up at parents evenings etc etc. I don’t bad mouth him to her and I’ve made a huge effort to build a civil peaceful relationship with him for her sake. I like his new family and I am supportive and interested. She likes being there as she has no rules or responsibility. It’s like a holiday. They get to go out and do nice things. His DW does all the wife work obviously. His DW and I get on very well.

I have not paraded men/stepdads in and out of her life
I didn’t have any more children
I don’t hit her and never have
I don’t say horrible mean things to her
We don’t have major money problems
She’s been supported through her education
I’ve taught her life skills (even if she doesn’t use them)
I’ve supported her and guided her even when she has been making bad choices (school behaviour, friends)
I’ve told her I love her every single morning and night
I invite her to spend time with me and talk to me even though she always turns me down
I always apologise if I have made a mistake or done something to upset her

At the same time:
I’ve had to work full time to support us all which has limited my time with them both (ie using childcare) and crap child support payments were no use
I haven’t had as much spare cash for things like holidays as her DF
I’ve asked her to work for the money she wants to spend on herself and she got a job after her GCSE’s. I gave her pocket money until she got a job and I buy all her food/toiletries etc
She is asked to help in the house which she doesn’t like doing (sibling also expected to)
There are rules in the house which she will break
I now have a partner who I have kept separate from the DC for some time and she is feeling jealous
I get grumpy and tired with the behaviour sometimes and mentally switch off in an attempt not to get swept into horrible rows

I wonder if she has an undiagnosed ASD which wouldn't be unusual as girls don't present typically and so are under diagnosed. Lots of what you write would fit. If so she might have all the associated communication difficulties which, even if she speaks articulately there can be huge deficits in what she hears and understands so she may well be misinterpreting your tone and meaning, she may be unaware that how she communicates is abusive, she might be unable to identify feelings much less communicate them and she ends up frustrated, angry and her anxiety spikes.
Without her cooperation and agreement there is no way of getting a diagnosis or support but you could read around autism to gain some understanding and strategies that can be helpful even without any diagnosis. Tony Attwood is a respected authority and a good place to start.

@Sssloou

I have asked her to come out to lunch with me tomorrow to celebrate her college results, just the 2 of us and my treat. She was a little receptive to this suggestion so I will see what tomorrow brings. A lunch will not be a whole day so hopefully we can spend a short time together without conflict. She also did come and apologise to me, but then said immediately after she needs a new phone! admit that I didn’t appreciate tagging on wanting something new and expensive to an apology so said just to be clear DD I am not buying you a phone but thank you for apologising to me.

@hiredandsqueak

Thanks that is useful and I am going to do some of the reading advised on here by posters - absolutely the issue is her perception of things being so different to my perception, it causes so much conflict. A simple conversation becomes so confusing.

She only seems to know the emotion ‘angry’ sometimes she will cry but she is never sad crying, she only angry cries. I’ve rarely seen her appear sad. Even during a sad time (our pet dying) she was angry.

But I know her well enough that I can tell the difference when she is angry (anxious), angry (worried), angry (scared), angry (resentful). She does get really happy and excited she is not 24/7 angry. But it’s either happy or angry. No middle area