Need help with DD and her mental health?

[Userandmuser]

I am very confused right now. My DD18 has always been difficult and an angry person towards me and it’s getting a lot worse. I’m not an angel or perfect and I tend to bite back sometimes when I am tired or had too much of it. I also try to make peace and find resolutions too and have tried to get her help.

Lockdown has not helped the situation she is frustrated all the time although she is quite independent she is going though a phase where she really really hates me. I really do not know what is real or not anymore and if she needs help or if she is punishing me to an extreme level.

When she is unhappy with me I am often unaware there is a problem or I have done anything and she will begin to verbally attack me, this starts off with small jabs and jibes and comments and escalates to shouting. The whole time I am trying to listen, de-escalate and not fight back with her but to diffuse, talk and calm down with firm boundaries.

Whenever I challenge her to explain herself (even when she is calm) so I can understand the issue she will leave the discussion and refuse to engage anymore - so I am not getting anywhere and nothing is ever discussed or resolved. When I tell her something is not true, this makes her more angry.

Last night I saw my boyfriend. DD will not allow my boyfriend to come to our house when she is home so I went out as I do not want to fight over it. DD does not know him but he is a nice man. I had not seen him since Saturday - I see him once or twice a week max. The whole rest of the week I am at work or at home. DD was not home all day (I had worked from home) as she was out at the beach. DD was very angry I was not at home that evening although I had let her know about it, and she wasn’t home till late.

Today started off that I text her at 8.30am in the morning from work to ask her about her course results from college and to let me know when she got them. She usually has her phone on silent all the time. I sent it before a meeting in case she got them early and as a ‘good luck’ message. She was asleep and angry that the message woke her up. She sent some angry texts. She got the results, we discussed it on text, I was happy for her and said I was proud and then she changed the subject to ask me what was for dinner. DD refuses to cook food and was then angry about dinner and that I might cook something she doesn’t like.

Tonight I came home from a long day at work with a headache. She did not come downstairs to say hi as she was in the shower. I went upstairs to lie on my bed and she came in to me angry I had not spoken to her about her results when I got home. I apologised and tried to talk to her which she shut down and left. I nodded off as I had a headache and was tired, with the intention to get up and cook dinner in a while.

DD has come into my room, screamed at me for being asleep, marched around the house shouting, began to cook dinner for herself but cooked half of it then threw it all in the bin.

The reasons for being angry with me:

• I haven’t been home for 3 days. This is not even true in any way - I have either been working or at home since Saturday. Or working from home. I went out once last night.

• I never cook anything. As DD never cooks, I’ve cooked everything for 18 years

• I never do any housework and she does everything - this is also so untrue. She does very little

• I never asked her about college and showed no interest. Which I did

• All I care about is boyfriend and I keep trying to make her meet him. Also not true. And it was ok for him to kindly put her TV on the wall last month but then she demanded he leave immediately

• it was ok to wake me up because I ‘shake her awake’ every morning when I go to work. This does not happen

I’m worried about these things she accuses me of, because she seems to really believe they are true and is so angry about them and they are not reality. I am confused over whether she really believes them to be true? And she won’t talk about them with me when I try to get to the bottom of it or find a resolution.

I am sitting in my car in the rain because I couldn’t sleep my headache off, she threw all the food away I could have cooked and then accused me of these things and I don’t know what to do.

Google autism in girls and see if it fits op. Gather together as much info as you can then sit down with her when she is calm and discuss it. If she is autistic she knows that her reactions aren't "normal" and a potential explanation will be a relief once she gets used to the idea. Do appreciate though that getting used to the idea will take some time.

Yes exactly that! Dd has ASD almost eighteen, she has an IQ of 160 plus but the only emotions she recognises are happy or sad. Happy covers every thing from ecstatic to amused and sad covers everything from devastated to furious. She obviously knows all the words and meanings for all the emotions and can describe the meanings but has no idea how to identify them in herself or in others.
So, for example, if I'm distracted and answer her in a way slightly different to normal because I might be reading something, watching or listening to the TV or radio dd worries then that I'm angry at her and her anxiety rockets even though it's nothing more than my mind being elsewhere. Any difference in tone she thinks I'm angry, for dd it makes her anxious and tearful but it might be that for your dd it makes her angry and she retaliates instead.

Really does sound a lot like Autism, tbh. Yes, girls present very differently to boys, often.
Disclaimer. I worked for a number of years with Autistic teens and young adults, in a specialist setting, so although I am not qualified to diagnose, I do have a lot of experience

My sister is now in her 40’s she still is a difficult person - how I wish my mother didn’t pander to her as a child for fear of her reacting :(

She can not see that anything she does is wrong and is always right - if you dare to disagree or even engage a conversation with her she flies off the handle. I’ve spent years worrying I didn’t say Hello in the right way or react in the way she wants. She gets so angry and horribly spiteful.

She was very loved as a child but it seemingly never enough. Like I said we didn’t make her the dinner she wanted or the drink she wanted etc etc

Recently a incident happened where I can no longer have her in my life. My mum is devastated as she wants everyone to get on but I mentally can’t do it anymore to myself having her around me destroys a piece of me every time.

This time my Mum has finally asked her to seek counselling as it isn’t good for her to live her life like this either. Has had a number of long term relationships with lovely men but eventually they can’t stay with her anymore because of her behaviour. Get her to see someone now & hopefully can help her control the anger.

I was really similar when I was her age to my mum. (Don't worry we get on great now and I couldn't have a better relationship). Truth is my mum really did not know how to handle me as a teenager and seemed to care more about her boyfriend that she did about me. This may not have actually been true but to an 18year old with pretty bad anxiety it was how I felt at the time. I would see if she might get anything out of counselling but I actually think she may be best to go on her own, sometimes it's easier to process things when you aren't in front of each other. Taking to a stranger can be really therapeutic and make you realise actually maybe your mum doesn't find you to be a total inconvenience, maybe she loves you more than her boyfriend and maybe she's just doing her best. It worked for me anyway but just keep reminding her you love her and the house is a safe space 💗

Just read more comments and I have missed a lot of your detail! Can't offer any good suggestions I am afraid but just wanted to send some positive feelings your way 💗💗💗

If a child has a SEN, a disability or additional needs - then making environmental / behavioural adaptations is not “pandering” - it is making their painful, confusing, tumultuous interaction with the world more tolerable - which then eases their distress and escalating anxiety which led to anger / volatile behaviour. If you get to the root of the issue, understand her triggers etc you can break this chain of events and she will be much more able to cope with the world, be less stressed and emotionally regulated.

It’s no different to putting support in place for someone with any other health or physical need.

IMHO the OP has tried too hard for too long to do this all herself - over responsible - not knowing she needed professional help sooner. I really hope that you have a calm and gentle day tomorrow and believe that this will be turned around soon once you know what path you are on.

Regarding your tone this is a big problem. Her tone is very harsh and difficult to be receptive to in a positive way I don’t think she understands how it comes across to others. She is easily offended by my tone and yes retaliates. She seems to hear different words to what I have said. Me saying maybe you could talk to a professional she hears that I am calling her a psycho. She’s afraid of being told there is something wrong with her and this is why she avoids engaging in therapies even though I have told her that it doesn’t work like that and it is to help her not to accuse her of having something wrong.
Then I am in a battle of truing to explain that I am not angry or upset but she has already reacted badly.

@Strangeday21
Sorry to hear about your sister. I hope that she gets some help and support and maybe in time you can rebuild a relationship? It sounds really hard for you to deal with

It is v difficult to remain neutral, even think straight and respond calmly in the “correct” tone when anger, rage, blame and volatility are flying in your face - you are under threat in that moment and already walking on eggshells 24/7, so the tension of being hyper alert for danger is exhausting and then even when you respond blankly (correct response to
anger and danger) your body language and tone will give it away that you have emotionally withdrawn, you are depleted, defensive and resentful (all understandable when dealing with repeated anger).

So the interaction / communication is futile - neither of you get what you need.

If however you understand the root cause of her anger (and it is not the cooking, BF, teacher, you etc) and know that her anger is the secondary emotion to deep fear - you can respond to her true emotional state of fear and meet her real need.

We respond differently to people who are terrified and panicked than people who are “angry” - we don’t see them as a threat - we respond compassionately and our body language, tone, emotional connection is totally different as we are not triggered into our own feelings and behaviours of anger under threat even though we think are hiding it behind our clenched jaw.

I think responding to her from a different mindset - shifting the focus to seeing a terrified 7 year old little girl who is in deep fear and confusion because she struggles to navigate the world socially and then can’t understand, process or respond appropriately to her own feelings within her would dramatically change the dynamics and take the escalating negative energy out of your interactions.

It’s not a quick fix. But it could be an approach that might help you both. Quite often anxious and scared people goad and push us because they want us to “abandon” them by biting back, walking out, disconnecting and emotionally rejecting them - because this is their greatest fear and they want to be in control of the timing of this and get there first. With my DD - I saw her visibly satisfied when she achieved her goal and I finally snapped. Because they want you to feel how they feel - subconsciously she needed / wanted me to feel her “anger” - she needed to discharge and pass her anger on to me to be relieved of it. And so the toxic futile cycle played out yet again as I retreated in devastated blame, shame, guilt and she wasn’t comforted for the real fear and pain she was experiencing.

It did take some time when I switched gears to responding with compassion to her fear rather than engaging in the superficial anger. Even though she knew instantly as she is so aware of / connected to, my emotional state. I think when she sensed and trusted that I was responding and connected to her in a positive compassionate way, consistently - she slowly softened.

I don’t think that you should ignore or tolerate the bad, aggressive attacking behaviours. They needed addressing with a clear expectations and consequences “boundary / rule book” that is agreed on well away from any flashpoint moment. But the point is not to focus solely on the repeated behaviours which are just symptoms of the real issue - but to tackle the root cause - her fear and emotional development / deficit - slowly build her emotional intelligence, capacity, resilience so that she isn’t triggered immediately to anger and to behave badly.

Another thing with my DD was to understand the deep self loathing she had for herself after she behaved badly. Lots of shame - but again unable to process so it came out as sulks and blaming me - asking for an apology was red rage to a bull - she wasn’t emotionally capable in that moment.

Google PDA and also ODD

It’s Part of Aspergers

I would relocate her to her fathers for your own mental health and meet up with her on set days twice a week to try and build new interaction style and positive bond.

Your needs for happiness are just as important as hers. Looking at the bigger picture she needs to be with Dad as he can support her in a non challenging way and you can start to rebuild your relationship in small doses.

Also do you have similarities? And this is why you clash partly

See the controlling behaviour as coming from anxiety and feel compassion whilst helping her understand set/fair house rules

I don’t think I am similar no. I have no conflict in my life and work in a sensitive area in a team where conflict would not be acceptable and I actually have to do a lot of conflict resolution

I don’t want to talk to her dad about this really it will not go well

She’s got a small group of friends who seem to get along and her first boyfriend. She’s got a lot more aggressive and challenging towards me since she met him. For no reason. I’ve not stopped them hanging out and I’m nice to him, he seems a nice boy

This might be important as to why things have escalated right now - maybe she can’t understand or tolerate or is confused by emotional intimacy - even if it is as it seems kind and respectful. This has nothing to do with you - but you are her receptacle / safe place where she behaves and acts out her confused emotions.

It’s important she accepts professional help - because she might push this BF away - or he just moves on and her self esteem will crash and the cycle will continue with each new RS. And as we know when our self esteem is low we end up in dreadful relationships.

It’s interesting that you said up thread that she treats you as your xH did - do you think this is learnt behaviour from watching him - or have they similar original temperaments / personality traits?

Please do talk to the dad. Tell him you need his help and you need him to be the main carer for a good while to give you respite.

Coordinate the move between yourselves and then inform DD what is happening

Dad is unreasonable to talk to and even she would not want me to involve him. She seems to have dynamic with him that there are no issues about anything, ever. Therefore it’s calm. So it’s very sanitised. I don’t even think he views her as an adult in her own right. It’s all a veneer it’s not deep and meaningful and it’s what my other child couldn’t bear over time, like I don’t know if he would even know what their best friend is called or what size shoe they are.

They are very similar as most of his aggression is anxiety and frustration coming out. He also says stuff to her without even thinking about the effects. Like he has said for years and years ‘oh I hate hospitals I hate the smell they make me feel funny’ and then DD is terrified of hospitals. I’m like STOP SAYING IT TO HER.

The lunch went well, we didn’t stay too long and I stayed away from any topics about myself (which she hates) and just asked things about her. She was very stressed about COVID initially but was ok once we sat down. It was pleasant

I am glad that you had a peaceful lunch. I hope that brought you some relief. Strike that up as a big win after a v difficult week.

You achieved that - be proud.

Building up her emotional security by validating her feelings and reducing her fears and confusion might be a bit like snakes and ladders - she has moved along a few squares (all good), something unexpected happens and she drops down a snake - but she is not ever back to square one. You can both learn about her triggers and tweak her routines, the environment and your communication styles to alleviate any stress and make the home environment a more comfortable, restorative sanctuary for her to emotionally recharge so that she has extra resources when facing the outside world. It sounds like you have given her everything and bent over backwards - but it might be something simple missing like scheduling in basic daily routines such as having breakfast together or a short dog walk after work at 6 each day - or she needs more exercise, better sleep routine etc.

Well here we are back again

The last few days have been great with no conflict points at all. I’ve been at work, DD has been out with friends, seeing boyfriend during the day.

DD has a massive massive problem with me going out. She also has a massive massive problem with doing housework, even tiny tiny things like putting something in the bin.

Also remember, she doesn’t like me having people round either. One of her issues seems to be that I ‘never give her enough notice’ that I am going somewhere. I realise I time everything social for when she is not home (at dads) so I don’t have to give her any bloody notice. Sometimes it’s like living in a jail where work is day release. I can literally never go anywhere spontaneously without her having a problem with it. Notice which is irrelevant, as she is at home in her bedroom doing absolutely nothing when I go out.

I say to her this afternoon that I am going to go to my boyfriends tomorrow evening (Wednesday). Apparently 24 hours is not enough notice and she already told me I must give her notice. I say how much notice does it have to be? She won’t answer. I say no DD this is not acceptable to complain about how much notice I have given you, and it doesn’t affect you. She then says that no wonder all my relationships fail, I have no friends and she will HAVE TO MAKE HER OWN DINNER. Well that’s the real issue? Cinderella won’t be home?

I’m so mad right now. I shouldn’t get mad. It’s so stupid. But she was recording me on her phone saying that I do not have to ask her permission to leave my own house! And 24 hours is plenty of ‘notice’ for someone who has no plans and is 18yo. Boyfriend is not allowed here as she feels uncomfortable and then screams at me that I am blaming her for being frustrated about it.

I cried in frustration down the end of the garden where she could not see me. I feel so trapped in a mad house sometimes.

I know it’s all this about her feeling secure and loved and confused and needing routine but I am absolutely trapped with her dictating every single move I make, and I don’t know when it will get better. I accepted this when I had toddlers. But I no longer have small children

I couldn’t get a GP consultation when I phoned but I will try again tomorrow

Truth be told, DD is the reasons I have ended a relationship before because I knew I would have no chance in hell of ever moving anything forward or integrating someone into her life, so she wants rid of this one as well now. I keep him away because I don’t want to involve him.

Two with autism here so feel for you. I can tell you that groundhog day for me means a happy and peaceful household although I do sometimes silently scream (because ds and dd don't like noise) at the monotony.
For us 24 hours notice would be short notice and would only really happen for things such as emergency doctor's appointment. Me going out to a friend's I would raise the week before and stick it on the planner. (You need a planner/whiteboard as having something visual helps them process it) At the weekend before I'd remind them of anything on the planner in the coming week and we'd talk about what might need doing to facilitate the week's plans.
So for your daughter where cooking for herself is an issue I'd offer a choice. I always use the same wording so I say "You can choose, I can cook enough the day before so that you can heat it in the microwave or you can make yourself food" Whichever they choose is written on the planner. If they don't choose or strop then you say, you have chosen not to warm up my meal and so now you will need to make yourself food. You can make a sandwich if you don't want to cook and at that all discussion is done.
I use "you can choose" for pretty much everything tbh but with limited choice of two options and any strop results in the short straw. So for your daughter when she starts ranting I would say "You can choose, you can talk to me politely and with respect and I will listen or you can choose to carry on as you are and I will be leaving the room and won't be talking about this until you choose to speak to me nicely" In fact it is so ingrained here that they only need to hear "You can choose" to know that they need to carefully consider what they say next.

Maybe keep a log - you might see progress or you might find it is once a week but it haunts you 24/7. Log might show you have had x hours/days hassle free. Bad habit y happened again, trigger z caused it. I did a,b or c differently etc.

I know the pressure. It’s like being pecked on the head by a hen constantly. I always assumed mine wanted me now that instant and I felt controlled and then contemptuous towards her.

I then started creating space. They need the boundary / routine - so if she started on me when I got in in the evening at say 6:30 - I would say - I have stuff to do I will talk to you at 8:30. That seemed to work - she didn’t need me instantly, she didn’t need me 24/7 or for hours on end which is how I felt.

Maybe in your case - you could say for instance “I have plans to be out every evening from 7-11 and I will be here 6-7 for dinner every night - weekends I will be around in the mornings till 11 and on Sunday evenings” I don’t think that it’s the quality of time it’s just the security of knowing when you are going to be present. I would also not compromise your RS - have plans when he will be in your home.....give her x amount of notice.

I hope you get to the bottom of her behavior soon, OP, I’m glad you’re planning to see the doctor.

Autism or not, her behavior is very controlling. She can see her friends and her boyfriend- but you can’t; at 18, she can’t/doesn’t want to make her own dinner...i can see why you feel frustrated.

Userandmuser - from how you describe your daughter's behaviour it's as if she feels that you do not know her. Do you think this might be something?

I also noticed how you spoke about your job. Dealing with conflict in your work, has this made you reluctant to deal with conflict at home?