Need help with DD and her mental health?

[Userandmuser]

I am very confused right now. My DD18 has always been difficult and an angry person towards me and it’s getting a lot worse. I’m not an angel or perfect and I tend to bite back sometimes when I am tired or had too much of it. I also try to make peace and find resolutions too and have tried to get her help.

Lockdown has not helped the situation she is frustrated all the time although she is quite independent she is going though a phase where she really really hates me. I really do not know what is real or not anymore and if she needs help or if she is punishing me to an extreme level.

When she is unhappy with me I am often unaware there is a problem or I have done anything and she will begin to verbally attack me, this starts off with small jabs and jibes and comments and escalates to shouting. The whole time I am trying to listen, de-escalate and not fight back with her but to diffuse, talk and calm down with firm boundaries.

Whenever I challenge her to explain herself (even when she is calm) so I can understand the issue she will leave the discussion and refuse to engage anymore - so I am not getting anywhere and nothing is ever discussed or resolved. When I tell her something is not true, this makes her more angry.

Last night I saw my boyfriend. DD will not allow my boyfriend to come to our house when she is home so I went out as I do not want to fight over it. DD does not know him but he is a nice man. I had not seen him since Saturday - I see him once or twice a week max. The whole rest of the week I am at work or at home. DD was not home all day (I had worked from home) as she was out at the beach. DD was very angry I was not at home that evening although I had let her know about it, and she wasn’t home till late.

Today started off that I text her at 8.30am in the morning from work to ask her about her course results from college and to let me know when she got them. She usually has her phone on silent all the time. I sent it before a meeting in case she got them early and as a ‘good luck’ message. She was asleep and angry that the message woke her up. She sent some angry texts. She got the results, we discussed it on text, I was happy for her and said I was proud and then she changed the subject to ask me what was for dinner. DD refuses to cook food and was then angry about dinner and that I might cook something she doesn’t like.

Tonight I came home from a long day at work with a headache. She did not come downstairs to say hi as she was in the shower. I went upstairs to lie on my bed and she came in to me angry I had not spoken to her about her results when I got home. I apologised and tried to talk to her which she shut down and left. I nodded off as I had a headache and was tired, with the intention to get up and cook dinner in a while.

DD has come into my room, screamed at me for being asleep, marched around the house shouting, began to cook dinner for herself but cooked half of it then threw it all in the bin.

The reasons for being angry with me:

• I haven’t been home for 3 days. This is not even true in any way - I have either been working or at home since Saturday. Or working from home. I went out once last night.

• I never cook anything. As DD never cooks, I’ve cooked everything for 18 years

• I never do any housework and she does everything - this is also so untrue. She does very little

• I never asked her about college and showed no interest. Which I did

• All I care about is boyfriend and I keep trying to make her meet him. Also not true. And it was ok for him to kindly put her TV on the wall last month but then she demanded he leave immediately

• it was ok to wake me up because I ‘shake her awake’ every morning when I go to work. This does not happen

I’m worried about these things she accuses me of, because she seems to really believe they are true and is so angry about them and they are not reality. I am confused over whether she really believes them to be true? And she won’t talk about them with me when I try to get to the bottom of it or find a resolution.

I am sitting in my car in the rain because I couldn’t sleep my headache off, she threw all the food away I could have cooked and then accused me of these things and I don’t know what to do.

I feel like I don’t understand her no. And even if she got diagnosed with something I would have to entirely relearn how to communicate with her, nothing I have done so far has worked but that’s down to my inconsistent approach. I’m haphazard as nothing seems to help, or it does and then suddenly it doesn’t and I’m back to square 1.

I know she has triggers and me going out is one of them. Basically I never went out for years and years and now the notice period I need to give her could be 1 week or 1 day it seems to make no difference to how it makes her feel or react - mother is choosing to leave the home to enjoy herself elsewhere and that is a threat to her? Jealous? Angry? I do not know really. Times I give longer notice she might find something else to be unhappy about or say it’s fine and then on the day be very angry

At work I don’t take the conflict personally and there often is problem arising, then you try to find a resolution. Here there is no real resolution and when you feel like you have no voice and no freedom it is incredibly draining, I’ve struggled not to take it personally when it’s all directed at me as a person, my thoughts, my emotions and my decisions as a parent are discredited and disrespected.

I grew up in a house with no voice of my own, I was in a relationship with her father with no voice of my own and now here I am living with another person who does not seem to view me as a person in my own right with feelings and emotions. We are stuck in a battle of control where I am trying to assert boundaries and losing

I seem to find it impossible with DD to take a non personal reaction as she can unfortunately go for my weak spots (my triggers) to get a reaction. My triggers seem to be telling me that I am a failure or I don’t deserve something because I haven’t earned it. And it’s not like DD spends any of her calm time saying nicer things to me either, or appreciating anything that is done for her so it is the ultimate thankless task being a parent and I have tried so hard to give them a good life. I am not getting to enjoy mother daughter chats very often, doing things together (she will not want to), getting thank yous for things I do, getting any help offered willingly, respecting the environment I provide. I can sit downstairs every evening till 11pm for 6 months (and did all of lockdown) and she won’t join me, yet doesn’t want me to go out either

I’m probably tired and feeling sorry for myself, tomorrow is a new day and I’m going to sleep to try to have some patience

Jesus h Christ. Let me give you my very first mumsnet hug. You have the patience of a saint.

She's a controlling little bitch. A real chip off the old daddy block. I'm gobsmacked at her demands as to what you can and can't do - her father has a live in partner ffs.

I think you need to get tough. Sorry but I do. I was a tricky teen but NOTHING like this. Not because I am so much more NT but because I simply wouldn't have been allowed to be. If this girl doesn't learn to behave herself her life is going to be ruined. She is a spoilt, manipulative horrid little bully. And before anyone starts hand wringing and going on about her being a child let me just say one thing.

How many people in the big bad world are going to put up with this shit? How many jobs will she keep, and how will her relationships work? She needs to learn to rein it in. Her behaviour is appalling and she knows it.

So it's got to be rule time. She does NOT control the house or you. She pulls her weight. She does NOT speak to you like that.

She must engage with the MH services (sadly not Cahms now) and work on becoming a human being.

If she doesn't get stopped in her tracks right now she will go out into the world as a female version of your ex, and destroy your life in the process. You need to be less of a friend and more of a boss. Your home your rules. The end

Start by taking it all away. No money no nothing. Every week she earns what she gets for the following week by behaving in a certain way. Do a fucking star chart if you have to. No giving in or backing down. A bad week could mean zero pocket money or phone credit or certain foods. A good week means she gets what she gets now. No bribes, no exceptions. Just like real life.

Otherwise she's doomed to a life of being sacked, underachieving and misery. She may think she loves having all the power but she doesn't. She feels unsafe. She needs you to be tough and strong because tough and strong also means you can protect her.

She sees you as weak and that makes her feel unsafe. Time to show her she's wrong.

Sorry - I simply cannot believe that you are allowing your daughter to dictate when you can/cannot leave the house. You need to assert your authority, relinquish control and not accept this abuse from your daughter.

And more worrying is she is NOT getting the message that this is an unacceptable way to behave, so she will repeat this controlling behaviour in her future relationships. She thinks she is ‘in the right’ - she is not! And she needs to know this!

Someone doesn’t put litter in the bin should we

a) assert that that person needs to take responsibility for their actions as it affects society as a whole.

b) conclude that the person may have medical condition and continue to pick up after them

OP please google NVR. you need to step up and take back some control for her sake and yours.
The poster above is correct that her life will be awful if she doesnt stop this.
There well be underlying Mh concerns but being mentally unwell doesnt necessarily equal having no control over how you behave towards others.
Does she speak to her college tutors like that? Friends? People at the beach?
I think not.

Trust me I am standing there saying pick up your litter. I’m not meekly bending over to whatever she wants but the result is fighting, and dirty fighting at that. Fighting is one thing but it’s never a fair fight. I don’t give her any money and she is expected to do jobs in the house. I will stand over her to get these done, even when she creates merry hell to get out of doing them. We see each other as trying to win something over each other. I’ve tried star charts I’ve tried planners. They all irritate her. She knows the jobs she has to do in the house she’s had them for 10 years.

She’s intelligent enough to know you can’t behave like this at work and get away with it but she can be impulsive so I am not sure how long this will realistically last in the outside world.

I’ve got to deal with my resentment towards her, she can feel it.

I feel so sorry for you OP. Sometimes people are just not very nice and there's not a lot you can do about it. She seems to have taken after her father-- perhaps this is just her personality.
Stop letting her control your life. Do what you need to do eg see boyfriend etc and if she has to, then she can go and live with her dad.
I think you are fighting a losing battle at the moment. Hopefully when she's older you can establish a better relationship but I think that's more likely if you stop being her punching bag now.
Establish form boundaries and she may respect you more (not in the short term but in the future)

Cross Post. Maybe the only way to stop this destructive cycle and clear this resentment is for her to move into her dad's?
Might help her appreciate you more and idolise him less?

My daughter is fiercely intelligent and I bloody love her, but she is hard work and wants control. She hates me at times, but I know she doesn’t mean it - and it’s a ‘heat of the moment’ thing. Be confident, you have years of experience that she lacks. My daughter is beautiful/precious but she can be a little shit. I would much rather go along the very firm discipline/zero tolerance route first before a mental health diagnosis. It takes a lot of confidence/authority from me (which I naturally lack) - but I CAN get there - and she needs me to get there and set those boundaries.

for you, it sounds so hard. I suspect your relationship would greatly improve if she were to move out - what about a flat share with friends? Courage xx

The NVR (non violent resistance) parenting approach is a great suggestion and often recommended for vulnerable children with ASD or other background traumas. It’s all about responding to the root cause of fear and anxiety, rather than the external controlling behaviours and anger that the original real need has morphed into. It does not excuse bad behaviour - it tackles it directly in a constructive way:

“It is believed within the NVR field that when young people have experienced physical or sexual child abuse or neglect, their aggressive or dismissive behaviour can mask vulnerability, such as anxiety or fear, and/or an unmet need. Some areas of unmet needs are said to be:

The need to feel safe and protected
The need to feel a sense of belonging
The need to have a coherent and benign self- and family narrative
The need for support in one's development.
The child's behavioural problems divert the attention of adult and child away from any unmet need and vulnerability. NVR claims that by raising their own sense of agency and strength in resisting the destructive behaviour, and then using their efforts at reconciliation to address the child's unmet needs, the adults can re-sensitise themselves for the child's distress and re-instate themselves in a caring position.”

Sorry forgot the link: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_Violent_Resistance_(psychological_intervention)

Importantly you need professional support for yourself and your DD. Even if she does move out if the issues are not tackled you will still have the same RS and her life will most likely be a car crash as she any unresolved emotional insecurity / MH issues will lead her into destructive relationships and lifestyles habits - which will leave you picking up the pieces for much longer.

I think you need to live apart for a while for both you sakes.

That’s really interesting thank you for the link.

It did strike me that this is very much what I am dealing with and lack of support is one area I have the most problems with. When I talk to my family, they just make excuses for DD’s behaviour and that I am just weak for not being able to manage it. If I have ever spoken to Ex DP he will just say that he never has the same issues with her so he doesn’t understand. I have no one to understand or be supportive, I can’t lean on my boyfriend as he doesn’t know her and I am afraid of him having a bad impression of her and it jeopardising any chance of a good relationship down the line between them. She wants this to be a secret, she hates peoples knowing anything.

Yes I am keeping her rules to keep the peace.

oxleas.nhs.uk/site-media/cms-downloads/NVR_for_parents_web_mgRKEiw.pdf

This might help. I understand when you are at the end of your tether and “normal” parenting strategies don’t work. Because this isn’t “normal” territory. It needs a different approach - with the same goals of a calm and peaceful home - kindness and respect. I have been there stripping out her room, star charts etc - it was red rag to a bull. It didn’t work - her behaviour just got worse and worse as we locked horns. There is another way - you need another way - because you have tried the normal / standard stuff for years and it isn’t working.

You need professional support to address this and turn it around.

Hi, userandmuser.

What an awfully difficult situation you are in. I really feel for you, because I relate so much.

I can't offer any advice, especially as you seem to have tried everything you possibly can.

What I really want to say is that I think that you are in the midst of a terrible example of intergenerational family trauma.

I grew up with an abused/neglected mother, who caused me extreme damage. Consequently, I absolutely feel for your dd. You have done so well to recognise that you have played a part in the difficulties she so clearly has. My parents never achieved this. People like us do seem to become involved with damaged people. My late husband was never remotely involved with our three children. I tried so hard, like you clearly have. One adult child is anxious and stressed, one is autistic and the third is utterly screwed up. This one is like your dd, utterly horrible in his behaviour towards me.

My husband died less than a year ago, and we are all a mess. Third child, early twenties, has cut the rest of us off completely, and absolutely hates me, despite the fact that I invested so much love and effort in him.

I have had to accept this.

I am not to blame, and neither are you. Our parents were damaged, they damaged us, and despite our best efforts, we have damaged our children. And on it goes.

I hope I don't sound defeated. I'm actually not. I have had to accept this fact of intergenerational abuse, and it has given me some peace, in a horrible situation.

My advice to you would be to accept yourself, your role, the pain of your dd and just see where it takes you. It's not a case of abandoning your daughter, but taking a step back. You can't right the problems of many generations.

I don't imagine that this is helpful or even very coherent. I just wanted to try and say something that might help a bit..

One other thing might be to re around the subject of cptsd/relational trauma. This helped me immensely.

Good luck and take care of yourself.

Userandmuser, some things stood out to me in your reply. Why do you think your approach towards her has been inconsistent and haphazard?

You also spoke about not having voice at home, both when you were a child and now. Do you think that as a child you were listened to? Do you think that maybe your daughter feels that she is listened to by you?

You also mentioned giving your children 'the good life'. What does a 'good life' mean to you? What do you think a 'good life' means to your daughter?

Have you sat down with your daughter and admitted your failings to her as a mother? There is nothing to be ashamed about here. As mothers, we've all failed to a lesser or greater extent. I think this will be of help to her.

Gosh you really have done it all havent you? On your own. If some of the previous comments are to go on worse (Some utterly vile ones and almost all blaming you in some way) than on your own because you have been not believed, not backed up or helped, and blamed.

You are the victim of abuse three times over. Your ex, your DD and now those around you. She needs help but I'm not sure you can help her. As someone said maybe this is just her personality- inherited from her father.

You just don't seem to be able to get through to her and after everything she's put you through stacked on top of the judgement and abuse by your ex you just don't have the bandwidth any more. She's unpleasant - no other word for it.

I don't think for one second you are to blame. And I don't even know if there's a solution. Have you looked at support groups for parents in your position? It seems like you are expected to be her punching bag with nothing for yourself and having other adults with similar children at least will give you somewhere to be heard yourself. You are being abused. Why don't you just withdraw from engaging with her for a little. Tell her firmly but kindly that where you go and what you do is none of her business you won't be giving her notice and you won't be discussing it with her. And just try and live your life a bit more. Make some meals she can re heat but leave her to it.

I think you need some space from each other. She's not too young to move out of home - I did at 17 because I couldn't stand having my well meaning mother constantly there looking at what I was doing and commenting and following my strict fathers rules (not to dye my hair pink so hardly onerous!). I think we keep kids at home too long these days. Let her live in semi squalour, but with the freedom and responsibility.

She scores highly for adhd you say. Part of that is absolutely detesting being examined and judged. Comments and criticism are like red rags to a bull. It's that in built fear of rejection and ingrained low self esteem. The best way to avoid it is to put distance between you and to let go.

Only you know if she's ready to leave - I probably wasn't in terms of being a fully functioning adult but I got there in the end. It was all ok. It meant I could go home once a week without being pissed off to see my parents.

And you need to think of yourself too. If you don't get some respite Your relationship will deteriorate. Tell her you love her but she's at that stage where she needs to be living busy her own rules in her own home.

Just read through the NVR link and I think it's useful, if thin. You'll definitely need to be part of a more comprehensive programme and god knows how you will get supporters given no one believes you and your ex is a prick.

I'm also sure you have already tried most things but of course the devil is in the detail so it will just be doing one thing slightly differently that will make a difference. But something has to give so if you can access this as a proper programme with proper support it could be very helpful.

I will try to answer and thank you for responding

I think haphazard as I am not very resilient. I am over sensitive and can be a bit of a people pleaser. I’ve also had depression in the past, with my family there has been points of conflict when I have needed their practical support - for instance I had to have 2 important surgeries some years ago, and needed help with childcare and recovery. I also had a debilitating condition with a lot of pain for about 9 months (thankfully now recovered). During these periods having my family ‘help’ did more harm than good so I ended up going it alone, trying to manage and sort the DC out and this may have scared DD, or made her feel that I was not present to support her. During periods of pain or depression it’s not always easy to stay focused on all of your DC needs when you are trying to get through the day, but I made sure there was food, they were ok and got to school etc. I probably did not have that much patience and DD saw me feeling weak. I think I feel guilty about the impact these things may have had on her.

A good life to me means opportunities, comfort, love and support. ExDP absolutely screwed me over financially when we split so it’s been a long road but I had to do it for the DC. I have really tried to get this right because i did not have it and my other child is flourishing. Don’t get me wrong there can be conflict with my other child now and then, they are NT and seem to have a more balanced view of the world and other people around them and their part in it. They seem to find it easier to take responsibility for things and have natural empathy.

A good life to DD seems to be something that isn’t possible - endless money and no responsibility for anything at all ever. A child like view. She’s not ready to move out she may have physical skills but she doesn’t have the emotional skills yet. I wonder if she needs a couple more years to mature or whether she will ever mature?

I’ve done a lot of counselling and CBT about boundaries and I don’t think DD liked this when I did become stronger.

Ok DD does not feel listened to. I agree. That is because she doesn’t know how to communicate feelings and emotions. I know her well enough that I can work our what’s going on but not what’s under the surface. She won’t talk about it or can’t explain it. I feel sorry for her for that. I would love her to be able to express herself, I wonder if she is afraid to because it’s scary.

She does detest any authority at all whatsoever and can’t take criticism, but is highly self critical to which I will try to give her positive feedback and comments where I can.

I think I come from a place of confusion - is she deeply insecure, or is this over confidence and she’s arrogant? Or both? One is a mask for the other?

It's that in built fear of rejection and ingrained low self esteem. The best way to avoid it is to put distance between you and to let go.

Really? The best way to deal with fear of rejection and ingrained low self esteem is to reject someone? What parenting expert ever advised that? Our role as parents is to build self esteem not trash it further.

There is no “blame” here - each and every one of you has been hurt and is struggling but as the only functional adult in your DD’s life you can take responsibility for seeking professional support to change the dysfunctional dynamic by adopting a more emotionally intelligent and strategic stance.

You might well need time to regroup and restore before you feel equipped to approach it differently. Your only options are not to continue locking horns, escalating and intensifying what isn’t working or kick her out.

You all need professional help. With the appropriate support and interventions this can turn around.

GP is calling back later today apparently but receptionist said it would have to be with DD. I am on her record as having her consent but I am not sure if they will discuss this with me or not. She says she does not want to talk to the doctor at all as she doesn’t know what to say. Also if I talk instead and she is there I am worried I will say something that will upset her and offend her

No expert here but it sounds a little like Borderline Personality Disorder. Hope you get some answers soon