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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do old fashioned men still exist?

356 replies

BooFuckingHoo2 · 11/08/2020 09:33

Was going to NC but fuck it Grin

I’m approaching 30 and I’ve been single for a couple of years now. I’m definitely attracted to a specific type of man, I.e. someone who’s “dominant”, has a good job and wants to play the traditional “man” role. (Also being tall and good looking helps Grin).

When I say traditional “man” role I mean be earning at least equal to me and be the main “provider” of the family if we were to have kids in future (I’d want to go PT). I also find it attractive when men are assertive and protective of their families and have strong morals/are chivalrous.

It seems these type of men are becoming either vanishingly rare or the ones that do exist are total dickheads! I OLD and 50% of the men I meet (and I screen them extensively first Grin) turn out to be very passive and (I’ll be flamed for this) want me to pay half on a first date ShockGrin.

Has anyone got a “traditional” DH/DP or does anyone dare to admit this is what they want?

Do these men still exist (non dick head ones) and how can I make sure I attract them?

OP posts:
Mayorquimby2 · 12/08/2020 10:02

"Sorry, but this is crazy, you want to meet a women who takes on all the childcare duties, housework and general 'wifework' while at the same time holding down a full time job of sufficient renumeration that enables her to 'pay her way'. "

If Tammy Taylor can manage it and still keep in cracking shape I don't see why my functional beloved can't do the same

Mayorquimby2 · 12/08/2020 10:03

*Fictional beloved

HazelWong · 12/08/2020 10:05

I am surprised you're having any problems with this. From what I see on here, virtually all men are very happy for their wives to work part time and do all the domestic labour!

Mayorquimby2 · 12/08/2020 10:06

for the record

Happily married
Do 50/50 childcare and housework (I probably do more childcare as wife's job is more time consuming and stressful than mine, she probably does more housework. I do the cooking.)

Just to clear up that I'm not an ogre

morefun · 12/08/2020 10:14

When I was younger (20s) I felt the same as you. I wanted those traditional values and thought I could get it without him being a knob. Didn't happen.

I think although some will support the family financially, they expect to not have to pull their weight in other ways. That sounds fine, until you are living it.

In my thirties, I got together with a man who was younger than I am by about 5 years. He definitely saw me as equal, and was kind etc (a relief after two abusive relationships with "dominant" men). However, I ended up frustrated that he didn't pay as much as I did and still didn't do half the housework either!

I don't know the answer to this. Maybe look for someone supportive and kind, who also pulls his weight! They are about.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/08/2020 10:15

@HazelWong

I am surprised you're having any problems with this. From what I see on here, virtually all men are very happy for their wives to work part time and do all the domestic labour!
I think it night be the bring big and brave and trading op like a delicate Princess she's struggling with, not a man letting her do the housework
KatherineJaneway · 12/08/2020 10:15

and (I’ll be flamed for this) want me to pay half on a first dateShockGrin

I know a woman like this. Smart, very successful career, high earner, own property etc. She won't see a man again if he doesn't pay on a first date.

SleepingStandingUp · 12/08/2020 10:18

What exactly do you bring to the table in this lop sided arrangement? That's not being 'traditional', just massively entitled and selfish.
I'm assuming @Mayorquimby2 is devilishly handsome with a robust penis he weilds expertly . Well his fictional alter ego anyway 😂

chubbyhotchoc · 12/08/2020 10:34

@KatherineJaneway does she actually get asked though? I never found men asked me to pay or expected it. I did a good year of dating and probably had more than 40 first dates before I met my husband. I only had one guy that didn't pay and that was more he had a drink when he arrived and then didn't ask me if I wanted one too. I ended the date after thirty minutes ( weirdly he did call repeatedly asking for another date after). Never had an issue getting follow up dates either or anybody moaning or hinting I should pay.

DillonPanthersTexas · 12/08/2020 10:46

KatherineJaneway

The old who pays on first date thing is discussed at length on here every few monthsGrin

It always amazes me the amount of projection that takes place over a man who has the audacity to go Dutch on a date. His entire psychological character is mapped out in all its 'red flag' glory based on a solitary act. Its almost as amusing as the lack of self awareness of those who refuse to open their purse calling a bloke who splits the bill 'tight'.

Given your user name, perhaps you can answer this question, what do dating couples in the 23rd century do given that money no longer exists?

Starsabove1 · 12/08/2020 11:13

@BooFuckingHoo2 I had (note had) a friend who got exactly what you’ve described.

In her late 20s she was earning a lot of money, had her own flat and car and then met a 40 something super-rich high-flyer who wanted the traditional set-up.

Once he knew she was keen he refused to see her again unless she promised to give up smoking. Told her it was common and no woman in his social circle smoked so she’d have to stop to fit in.
She stopped.

She was desperate to move into his large, detached, 5 bed house in a very expensive part of the country.
She had to lose enough weight to be a size 10 before he would allow her. My friend was a little overweight at the time but was and still is breath takingly beautiful. He was average looking then and looks like toad of toad hall in a bad wig 15 years on.

On the day she moved in, he weighed her and told her she could never weigh more than that again and the day she did would be the day he ‘took my key back’. He did say he would make ‘allowances’ for pregnancy - she would have 3 months post birth to get back into shape.

Because she is taller than him, she was banned from wearing heels and has to contort herself in photos so she is lower than him.

In the evenings and weekends when he was in the house he wouldn’t allow her to use her phone at all and she had to sit beside him at all times.

She had to fit the gym into times when they could go together or in her lunch break as she was expected to devote all her free time to him, unless he gave permission otherwise.

He made her change her car to a high spec sports model at her own cost to be in line with his standards. She was only allowed to drive it to work and back - he had to drive it if they went out together.

He told her he would be prepared to have a child once they’d been together 4 years.
He expected her to give up work then and was clear that he would pay for everything but would expect to be given budgets and receipts and would veto anything unsuitable. Every coffee, every trip to the shop, every toothbrush and pair of socks would have to be approved by him. The money was always going to be his, not theirs.

She spent those 4 years saving every penny in a secret account to build a safety net.

I stepped away after that as it was mind boggling to see an attractive, independent woman who had the talent and drive to make as much money as any man, give it all up to fit some fantasy and become quite nasty with it because she had to ape his attitudes to everything so as not to upset him.

We still have some mutual friends and I know from them that materialistically they are very happy. She has had kids, stayed home, has stayed slim and attractive as requested. She only wears designer brands, has her hair cut at a top salon in London, nails, facials etc once a month. They go on very lovely holidays. Their house is like something from an interiors magazine. They host lunches and dinners and have a wide circle of friends just like them. They are picture perfect.

She also starves herself, smokes in secret when he’s at work, has developed anxiety around housework and cleaning to the point of obsession and now that she’s spent her savings from her work life, she secretly sells the kids clothes and household goods on Facebook market place under a fake account. She buys the expensive kids clothes he likes, puts them on the kids once and then sells them. She uses the money to buy clothes from primark and H&M for the kids to wear every day and cuts the labels out. The rest is put into her secret account or spent on buying things she doesn’t want to account or ask permission for.

You might think that’s an extreme example but from the time I spent with his social circle, they were all like that. Saw themselves as demi-gods who the women should workshop and be grateful for it. It’s a very common mindset amongst that type.

Find a man who is kind and loving and will care for you in ways apart from money. Selling your soul to be the SAH serf for an arrogant arsehole isn’t worth it in the long run.

Mayorquimby2 · 12/08/2020 11:14

"
It always amazes me the amount of projection that takes place over a man who has the audacity to go Dutch on a date. His entire psychological character is mapped out in all its 'red flag' glory based on a solitary act. Its almost as amusing as the lack of self awareness of those who refuse to open their purse calling a bloke who splits the bill 'tight'."

I fucking love those threads.

"I don't want to pay my way, that makes him tight" is such a fun argument to see defended

madcatladyforever · 12/08/2020 11:58

Well whatever turns you on but I don't want a man like that. I'm highly independent and we'd clash horribly.
I recently turned down a marriage proposal from a man like that who owns his own business because he didn't want me to work just keep the house, I don't think so.
His first wife (who is dead) was also a friend of mine and she was properly downtrodden at the time of her death - I don't intend taking her place.
Yet on the other side I do wish they still had some gumption. There are a lot of real snowflakes and half men out there who don't want to work at all or who do nothing. I don't like them either, I just want my equal and he isn't out there.

strawberrymelons · 12/08/2020 12:21

Hi op.
My husband earns more than me, I work part time and we have 3 kids. He is the main bread winner. He cleans and cooks- he's protective of his family and has strong morals.

When we met- we earned similar, both worked full time.

I think the difference between my DH and the man you're looking for his this-
I chose to work part time. I chose to have 3 kids. I chose to get a job that's easy and flexible around our family. But I chose those things. If I'd have chose differently he would have cared either way. My choice.
Why would you want a man to demand those things of you?

corythatwas · 12/08/2020 12:45

I'd check out widow's pensions before I settled in a traditional long-term relationship, OP. Also think about his age- if he retires before you do and he is considerably older + the main breadwinner, what will that mean for your finances? Also, how would you feel about him messing around all day as a pensioner and you coming home from work to cleaning and cooking because that wasn't part of his deal and he's never learnt to do those things?

Widow's pensions is another consideration. They used to be part of pensions arrangements, not any more. What will your situation be like if you've worked part-time all your life and he snuffs it.

If he is very traditional, he may well want children, but is unlikely to want to learn anything about childcare. So what happens if, say, you end up in hospital? Years ago, neighbours would pile in to help a poor man, because you couldn't expect a man to know how look after the little ones. Imagine the response of your neighbours (most likely to be at work anyway) if you text them to ask to take on your children because your husband can't be trusted to keep them clean and fed.

If anything - unemployment, long-term illness- happens to him so you have to take on the role as breadwinner, he is likely to resent you for bringing in the money, or even for bringing in more money than he does. I've seen that situation turn very ugly indeed.

As part of the deal, he will expect the power difference LolaSmiles mentioned. That means he will expect to have the final word in any important decision- and probably in any decision that involves money. You will have to stand by and accept it when he makes what you know is a bad decision- even if it is going to accept your children, as well as yourself.

If his identity is tied up with his filling a certain role, he is less likely to be flexible when the unexpected happens. A child may be born disabled, a whole industry may fold leaving one of you without a job, one of you may become seriously ill. Flexibility, good humour and a willingness to pull your weight is what keeps marriages together ime.

ShebaShimmyShake · 12/08/2020 13:03

Never really thought of this being "traditional" or "old fashioned", tbh OP...it surely goes without saying that a man should be protective and loving of his wife and family. Money is a bit different but if you can earn £50k on three days a week, I don't think it matters what your partner earns, you'd have the time off in the week that you want to be with your kids and still have financial stability.

I work three days a week, my husband is full time and earns more per annum (to be fair, I'm not a field known for its high salaries) he's dominant in bed and he's certainly protective and caring of us; couldn't see the point of having a family with a man who wasn't. Apart from the Dom thing, it didn't really occur to me that I might have to read a certain book or join a website dedicated to this apparently most unusual of set ups. Perhaps I'm helped by the fact that I'm not in a highly paid industry so it's easier to find a higher earning man, but actually he wasn't earning so much when I met him. I loved him though.

And I still do, and as grateful as I am for our financial security (we aren't mega rich but we are comfortable and I'm aware we are fortunate), I'd live in a dustbin if it meant living with him. It's not transactional. Nothing wrong with something that is, though, if both parties are aware and on board with it. Is that what you want?

I don't know, it's good that you know what you want, but being able to work part time after kids with a man who loves and protects you doesn't sound strange or unusual to me. Am I missing something? Obviously the part time work is a privilege, but on your salary, it's not one that would be dependent on your husband's earnings.

TeaOneSugar · 12/08/2020 13:34

My DP is old fashioned in as much as he opens doors for me, fetches the car if it's raining so I don't have to walk across a car park and get wet, that kind of thing. He's older than me and his Mother raised a gentleman, I'm not sure me like him exist in your age group. He lets me pay my way though and supports my career, he's not living in a time warp.

strawberrymelons · 12/08/2020 13:46

@TeaOneSugar
My husband is like yours. I'm 31 - he is 40. He was raised by an arsehole of a man who never had any respect for women. So I think he's just viewed how not to be growing up and it's made him a kind and thoughtful man.
Same as you he has never tried to control anything I do. And our family circumstances are discussed and decided between us.

OP there's a difference between a gentleman like above, and the things you view as making a gentleman. It's not about control.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 12/08/2020 14:11

I think the reason there is so much overlap between 'traditional' and 'dickhead' is the power imbalance - it seems the men can't help but think they are better than their wives, cleverer, richer, in charge.
And that pisses me right off.

BurtsBeesKnees · 12/08/2020 14:13

I like to think my dh is old fashioned in some ways

He always wants to provide for his family
He'd always stick up for me if someone said/did something that was disrespectful
He works hard (although I earn more than him), and puts all his money into the family

Walks on the outside of the footpath
Will do all the heavy lifting, jar opening, diy etc (massive plus as I hate it)
He does say he wants to do these things as it's his job, but knows I'm more than capable
He'll get the car if it's raining
Give me his hat or coat if I'm cold
He buys me flowers
Remembers birthdays and anniversaries
I actually think he's a gentleman

Although he's in his 50s he still looks like a bouncer, shaved head, big chest and arms, people cross the road sometimes to avoid him, but to me and our family he's the softest most kind and thoughtful man.

He actually says he's the girl in the relationship Smile so maybe he's not traditional in that sense

DotForShort · 12/08/2020 14:55

Some of the posts on this thread are shocking, especially the ones that interpret a SAHD as being somehow a failure or only choosing that role due to a mental health crisis. Hmm I imagine the same people would heartily approve of a woman being a SAHM.

I think that often the longing for an "old-fashioned" or "traditional" man is sadly misplaced and based on a sort of misty vision of a non-existent golden age that occurred sometime in the vague past.

Cheeseandwin5 · 12/08/2020 15:06

Always makes me laugh when ppl change words to soften the same subject.
So I want to be treated the same way whilst I am at work and also in my personal life and I call that equality ( a strong positive word) and you can be disappointed if a potential partner doesn't show these qualities.
But others also want the best parts of how it used to be- Expecting men to pay, open doors, etc etc but obviously saying i want inequality is a negativity word and would show their hypocrisy so they dress up as old fashioned and chivalrous and in that way they can still blame the man for not showing these attributes too.
I wonder how it would work from the opposite view. a man saying he wants equality with a woman who earns and spends as much as he does but that she also believes in old fashioned values that include keeping the house clean and have dinner on the table when he gets home.

ShebaShimmyShake · 12/08/2020 15:27

I wonder how it would work from the opposite view. a man saying he wants equality with a woman who earns and spends as much as he does but that she also believes in old fashioned values that include keeping the house clean and have dinner on the table when he gets home.

If these boards are anything to go by, plenty of people have that relationship.

comingintomyown · 12/08/2020 15:31

No wonder you meant to name change , and as for your list of what you would bring to the table. The superficiality of it all is really depressing

LolaSmiles · 12/08/2020 15:55

I don't know, it's good that you know what you want, but being able to work part time after kids with a man who loves and protects you doesn't sound strange or unusual to me. Am I missing something?
Yes you're missing something: that it's perfectly possible to have a wonderful and supportive husband who is protective of his family without resorting to putting on the rose tinted glasses and wistfully longing for some idealised traditional set up where you do all the wifey house duties for your high performing, high earning husband.